Mahoneys upset poor babies
Hmmm

Abingdon, VA

#21 Sep 25, 2012
hmmm wrote:
Where does the 2000 jobs number come from? I only see estimates of 250-300 employed by Bass Pro. I'm guessing 95% of their merchandise will be sourced from their national supply chain, and that at best only 30% of the construction work will be sourced from the Tri Cities. And those jobs are temporary so they don't count much in the long run analysis. So if Sullivan County gives $25M, that's costing us $100,000 for each job created.
You're hoping that a halo effect will result in people staying and eating in the local area, but I would like see an economic impact study by an unbiased 3rd party like ETSU rather than the fantasy numbers from Bass Pro's PR firm.
You haven't been paying attention then. It's not just Bass Pro, it's a 400-acre development with eateries, hotels, retail shops and a 14-screen movie complex.
BEAR

United States

#22 Sep 25, 2012
smokey wrote:
<quoted text>how do u know?
If you've lived in this area for 60 years, its common sense
BEAR

United States

#23 Sep 25, 2012
Hmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't been paying attention then. It's not just Bass Pro, it's a 400-acre development with eateries, hotels, retail shops and a 14-screen movie complex.
who cares? Mahoneys can withstand that type of competition. There's one of these type developments on every corner. Mahoneys is locally family based and has been for many years. They have plenty that DICKS does not have. Their customers will remain just that, THEIR customers!
In the know

Chatsworth, GA

#24 Sep 26, 2012
Mahoney's employees 56 people NOT 10 or 15
Hmmm

Abingdon, VA

#25 Sep 26, 2012
BEAR wrote:
<quoted text>who cares? Mahoneys can withstand that type of competition. There's one of these type developments on every corner. Mahoneys is locally family based and has been for many years. They have plenty that DICKS does not have. Their customers will remain just that, THEIR customers!
Thank you for making my point!
say what

Charleston, TN

#26 Sep 30, 2012
Mahoneys has been a ripoff for years.
one

Johnson City, TN

#27 Sep 30, 2012
Mahoney did much for city government but screwed taxpayers in the process both city and county. There are many things and policies lacking coomon sense. As far as their store its easy to succeed when you are the only game in town. Competition has hurt them and forced longer hours on them. Sales tax records are public.
Robert

Johnson City, TN

#28 Oct 1, 2012
Hmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't been paying attention then. It's not just Bass Pro, it's a 400-acre development with eateries, hotels, retail shops and a 14-screen movie complex.
You haven't been paying attention. The tax dollars used to buy BPS and Cabelas decision were based on the HOPE this type of development would be created. This didn't work out very well in Sevierville. Most of the development in that area went out of business and now there is simply a Bass Pro Shops that doesn't really contribute that much to their local economy. One day it might when when they no longer receive tax benefits, but that must might entice them to move. The reality is the 60 or so jobs this decision has created were basically paid for by local and state tax dollars. Every other business has to pay local and state taxes out of their pocket. This gives BPS an unfair advantage over the local businesses that have been paying taxes for a very long time. This is what Dan is mad about and what every other local business owner should be mad about. Bass Pro Shops will use up all of our tax dollar gifts and then simply move to another area that is also willing to give them tax incentives. When they do move, the local businesses will be dead and when they do move, the community will be far worse off. Why do you think there are protesters wherever a new Walmart is being constructed. This is the exact same scenario, but much worse since it also involves sales tax incentives.
Hmmm

Abingdon, VA

#29 Oct 1, 2012
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't been paying attention. The tax dollars used to buy BPS and Cabelas decision were based on the HOPE this type of development would be created. This didn't work out very well in Sevierville. Most of the development in that area went out of business and now there is simply a Bass Pro Shops that doesn't really contribute that much to their local economy. One day it might when when they no longer receive tax benefits, but that must might entice them to move. The reality is the 60 or so jobs this decision has created were basically paid for by local and state tax dollars. Every other business has to pay local and state taxes out of their pocket. This gives BPS an unfair advantage over the local businesses that have been paying taxes for a very long time. This is what Dan is mad about and what every other local business owner should be mad about. Bass Pro Shops will use up all of our tax dollar gifts and then simply move to another area that is also willing to give them tax incentives. When they do move, the local businesses will be dead and when they do move, the community will be far worse off. Why do you think there are protesters wherever a new Walmart is being constructed. This is the exact same scenario, but much worse since it also involves sales tax incentives.
Its unfortunate people around here are so shortsighted. To address your walmart comment you may want to educate yourself on the studies that have been done regarding walmart's affect on local business as it may not reflect what you sheep are telling each other. In addition, the "hope" as you refer to it, is more like a infrastructure and business "plan" with the intent of locating new and much sought after enterprises to a fairly depressed economic area. But your idea is probably better, just do nothing and let the grass continue to grow there off I-81 and create zero jobs. Yes, that's probably best.
Robert

Johnson City, TN

#30 Oct 1, 2012
Hmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
Its unfortunate people around here are so shortsighted. To address your walmart comment you may want to educate yourself on the studies that have been done regarding walmart's affect on local business as it may not reflect what you sheep are telling each other. In addition, the "hope" as you refer to it, is more like a infrastructure and business "plan" with the intent of locating new and much sought after enterprises to a fairly depressed economic area. But your idea is probably better, just do nothing and let the grass continue to grow there off I-81 and create zero jobs. Yes, that's probably best.
I suggest you educate yourself. The "business plan" is Walmart's and Bass Pro Shops business plan. It is not the community's and local area's plan for long term growth. The business plan is rather simple = operate as cheaply as possible for as long as possible, and when the tax incentives goes away and it is not as cheap to operate there any longer; move regardless of the consequences to the community in the long run. I suggest you educate yourself on the studies and cold, hard hard facts on the countless number of communities in the nation that have been left high and dry without any local businesses due to one large business leaving them in the dust. The sad part in this instance is that the community is actually paying for this to happen and weren't even allowed a vote. You are incorrect by assuming what my idea is. My idea is to promote long term growth by assisting the local economy to grow for every business, not just one large one. We can assist the local economy to grow by giving everyone a tax incentive and by promoting the assets of our area without giving up the farm. If a deal turns out to be a win-win situation for both the community and potential businesses, then great. Let's do it. But if a deal simply benefits the business and doesn't do much for the community, then don't do it. To make things fair, at least allow a vote on it. I would gladly let the grass grow there if it meant the foundation of our economy for so long doesn't have to be sold out to one large conglomerate. Your idea as you state it is no more than rolling the dice and hope everything works out. Yes, there is a chance everything does work out. However, there is an equal chance the end result is that the grass starts growing there again around a vacant building and the business that was once there leaves with a lot of profits and the community is left with nothing. The politicians look good now that they have been awarded this decision, but if things go bad, those politicians are gone with no repercussions. That is why the people of the community should have been given a voice in all of this. Look in the mirror at a very close distance and you will see the actual short sighted one.
Hmmm

Abingdon, VA

#31 Oct 1, 2012
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
I suggest you educate yourself. The "business plan" is Walmart's and Bass Pro Shops business plan. It is not the community's and local area's plan for long term growth. The business plan is rather simple = operate as cheaply as possible for as long as possible, and when the tax incentives goes away and it is not as cheap to operate there any longer; move regardless of the consequences to the community in the long run. I suggest you educate yourself on the studies and cold, hard hard facts on the countless number of communities in the nation that have been left high and dry without any local businesses due to one large business leaving them in the dust. The sad part in this instance is that the community is actually paying for this to happen and weren't even allowed a vote. You are incorrect by assuming what my idea is. My idea is to promote long term growth by assisting the local economy to grow for every business, not just one large one. We can assist the local economy to grow by giving everyone a tax incentive and by promoting the assets of our area without giving up the farm. If a deal turns out to be a win-win situation for both the community and potential businesses, then great. Let's do it. But if a deal simply benefits the business and doesn't do much for the community, then don't do it. To make things fair, at least allow a vote on it. I would gladly let the grass grow there if it meant the foundation of our economy for so long doesn't have to be sold out to one large conglomerate. Your idea as you state it is no more than rolling the dice and hope everything works out. Yes, there is a chance everything does work out. However, there is an equal chance the end result is that the grass starts growing there again around a vacant building and the business that was once there leaves with a lot of profits and the community is left with nothing. The politicians look good now that they have been awarded this decision, but if things go bad, those politicians are gone with no repercussions. That is why the people of the community should have been given a voice in all of this. Look in the mirror at a very close distance and you will see the actual short sighted one.
Not much use in debating someone who is already so closeminded about change and progress. Yea, screw all of those jobs that will come out of the development that might make a difference in someone else's life and the community..if it doesn't benefit you, it doesn't matter, I know. I'm just glad your not one of our elected representatives and someone is actually trying to do something with that property and not just stare at the grass with your negative outlook.
Surplus Varmint

Johnson City, TN

#32 Oct 2, 2012
Seems kinda funny, good ol'e Dan Mahoney is all for expansion and "what's good for the city" until it lurches on his money. Then he does a 180 and is violently opposed to the new businesses he supposedly wheeled and dealed to get here in town. Not enuff kickback? Gone are the days of Mom and Pop businesses, Mahoney's being one of them. Serves them right.
Robert

Johnson City, TN

#33 Oct 2, 2012
Hmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
Not much use in debating someone who is already so closeminded about change and progress. Yea, screw all of those jobs that will come out of the development that might make a difference in someone else's life and the community..if it doesn't benefit you, it doesn't matter, I know. I'm just glad your not one of our elected representatives and someone is actually trying to do something with that property and not just stare at the grass with your negative outlook.
We may have a difference of opinion, and I respect your right to have one. However, before you start bashing mine, go look at "all that" development as you call it around the Bass Pro Shops in Sevierville. "All that development" didn't happen. Why in the world do you think it is going to happen in Bristol versus outside of Knoxville? Are you saying the thriving metropolis of Bristol is more conducive to development than Knoxville? Are you saying there will be more people willing to drive to Bristol than Pigeon Forge/Knoxville/Gatlinburg? You are calling me close minded yet your eyes are completely shut when a similar development is 80 miles down the road that hasn't come close to the expectations you say Bristol will achieve. Go look at the Bass Pro Shops in Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville and Dallas. I have been to each one of these. The development you speak of isn't present in these much larger cities either. Why don't you open your eyes just a bit and realize that politicians and developers promise all of this development and spout huge numbers simply to get the project approved. Once it is built, they could care less if the project doesn't meet expectations. The Bass Pro Shops in Atlanta actually has already moved once to a new locality because the local tax incentives ran out. The locality it moved from got nothing out of that deal. Most of the employees who worked there came from the actual city of Atlanta and suburbs north of Atlanta. The empty building is still there. It had absolutely zero development around it. Ask anyone in that area what happened to the Bass Pro Shops near Duluth, GA. In fact, go take a look at it. What you see is what Bristol will be just as soon as the tax incentives run out. It is a very ugly and depressed area because all the local businesses that were once there aren't there any longer. If you can speak Spanish, you would do well living there if you know what I mean.
Sally

Johnson City, TN

#34 Oct 2, 2012
Surplus Varmint wrote:
Seems kinda funny, good ol'e Dan Mahoney is all for expansion and "what's good for the city" until it lurches on his money. Then he does a 180 and is violently opposed to the new businesses he supposedly wheeled and dealed to get here in town. Not enuff kickback? Gone are the days of Mom and Pop businesses, Mahoney's being one of them. Serves them right.
Johnson City politicians had nothing to do with the Bass Pro Shops decision nor the Cabelas decision. That was strictly Bristol and the state. Get your facts straight before blasting your ignorance please.
Hmmm

Abingdon, VA

#35 Oct 2, 2012
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
We may have a difference of opinion, and I respect your right to have one. However, before you start bashing mine, go look at "all that" development as you call it around the Bass Pro Shops in Sevierville. "All that development" didn't happen. Why in the world do you think it is going to happen in Bristol versus outside of Knoxville? Are you saying the thriving metropolis of Bristol is more conducive to development than Knoxville? Are you saying there will be more people willing to drive to Bristol than Pigeon Forge/Knoxville/Gatlinburg? You are calling me close minded yet your eyes are completely shut when a similar development is 80 miles down the road that hasn't come close to the expectations you say Bristol will achieve. Go look at the Bass Pro Shops in Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville and Dallas. I have been to each one of these. The development you speak of isn't present in these much larger cities either. Why don't you open your eyes just a bit and realize that politicians and developers promise all of this development and spout huge numbers simply to get the project approved. Once it is built, they could care less if the project doesn't meet expectations. The Bass Pro Shops in Atlanta actually has already moved once to a new locality because the local tax incentives ran out. The locality it moved from got nothing out of that deal. Most of the employees who worked there came from the actual city of Atlanta and suburbs north of Atlanta. The empty building is still there. It had absolutely zero development around it. Ask anyone in that area what happened to the Bass Pro Shops near Duluth, GA. In fact, go take a look at it. What you see is what Bristol will be just as soon as the tax incentives run out. It is a very ugly and depressed area because all the local businesses that were once there aren't there any longer. If you can speak Spanish, you would do well living there if you know what I mean.
I dont think you can compare the tourist trap area of Sevierville/Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge to Bristol, especially with all of that being so close to Knoxville. It's an entirely different economic dynamic there with all of the competition in such a relatively small area. The arguments you make comparing Knoxville to Bristol are the exact reasons why these businesses could do well here. But like I said your mind is made up and change is coming so might as well sit back and see how it unfolds. Would be interesting to revisit this conversation in a few years to see how it all turns out but I'm guessing even if it is a huge, thriving, job-creating, economic success you would find a reason to poopoo on it.
Robert

Johnson City, TN

#36 Oct 2, 2012
Hmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
I dont think you can compare the tourist trap area of Sevierville/Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge to Bristol, especially with all of that being so close to Knoxville. It's an entirely different economic dynamic there with all of the competition in such a relatively small area. The arguments you make comparing Knoxville to Bristol are the exact reasons why these businesses could do well here. But like I said your mind is made up and change is coming so might as well sit back and see how it unfolds. Would be interesting to revisit this conversation in a few years to see how it all turns out but I'm guessing even if it is a huge, thriving, job-creating, economic success you would find a reason to poopoo on it.
In my opinion, if the development is not doing well in Sevierville and if it didn't do well at one location in Atlanta, Bristol is going to have a tough go regarding all the development that is expected. That is all I am saying. I lived near the one in Atlanta for 20 years. I know what happened there. I just don't want to see that happen again here. I am not downgrading what real development would bring to this area. To me, real development is development that doesn't have to be funded by taxpayers money. However, if I am wrong in this instance, I will be the first to congratulate the developer and admit I have been proved wrong. I have simply seen it happen the other way too many times to be optimistic. Let's hope it works for Bristol's sake. It doesn't exactly need any economic failures in the future. The addition of a Cabelas will help though. We'll see. My final say on this is that just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn't make them short-sighted.
Common sense

United States

#37 Oct 3, 2012
As an economist I would point to the fact that BPS isn't willing to come to the area until the tax incentives are in place. That means through revealed preference that their expected short term profits aren't enough to offset either the full depreciation cost of developing the site or their internal minimum rate of return hurdle. This points to Robert more likely to be correct, in addition to the fact covered by various community economic reports that consumers in the Tri Cities principalities are not likely to travel far for retail with a few notable exceptions.

If Hmmmm was correct and the development was destined to be wildly successful due to unique demographics and retail patterns, the opportunity cost of waiting for local government to approve a package may have been to great to ignore and the project would have been started much earlier.

I'm not one for public subsidy of retail, but I might make an exception for a Costco.
Hmmm

Abingdon, VA

#38 Oct 3, 2012
Common sense wrote:
As an economist I would point to the fact that BPS isn't willing to come to the area until the tax incentives are in place. That means through revealed preference that their expected short term profits aren't enough to offset either the full depreciation cost of developing the site or their internal minimum rate of return hurdle. This points to Robert more likely to be correct, in addition to the fact covered by various community economic reports that consumers in the Tri Cities principalities are not likely to travel far for retail with a few notable exceptions.
If Hmmmm was correct and the development was destined to be wildly successful due to unique demographics and retail patterns, the opportunity cost of waiting for local government to approve a package may have been to great to ignore and the project would have been started much earlier.
I'm not one for public subsidy of retail, but I might make an exception for a Costco.
Logic suggests BPS picked Bristol over other locations due to both their expected return on their investment and also the tax exemptions offered by the municipalities...not just one or the other. And to clarify, I wasn't predicting they would be wildly successful as nobody can predict that with certainty...I was making a comment regarding the discussion that would occur if they were successful.
Robert

Johnson City, TN

#39 Oct 3, 2012
Hmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
Logic suggests BPS picked Bristol over other locations due to both their expected return on their investment and also the tax exemptions offered by the municipalities...not just one or the other. And to clarify, I wasn't predicting they would be wildly successful as nobody can predict that with certainty...I was making a comment regarding the discussion that would occur if they were successful.
I agree. I hope they are successful.
Dude!

Mooresville, NC

#40 Oct 8, 2012
I'm not here to take up for any business but, I have found some fairly good prices at Mahoney's over the years. Of course I guess that can be said for Cabelas & Bass pro. I don't shop at either one due to no concrete & mortar store close by (yet). But I have seen some astronomical prices at Mahoneys. One thing that does piss me off about Mahoneys, just about every time I go in & look around, especially the gun dept., no one will ask to assist you. They just stand there and stare. I've never had that problem at other gun stores.

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