Should state mandate immunizations? New requirements effective in July

May 4, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Chattanoogan.com

Immunizations are one of the most efficient and cost-effective ways to protect children against childhood diseases and Tennessee law requires documented immunizations.

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Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7283
Apr 30, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
My position has been and remains that the government does not have the right to mandate what I do with my body, nor what I direct for my own children/family. It, the government, exists only to serve the needs of the People, not the other way around.
Here's the problem with your thinking. You and you kids are not "the People". The 99.99% of everyone else is "the People".

When you don't get vaccinated, you are setting up a situation in which your disregard for the health of others can cause serious harm to the 99.99% who are not you.

Now, I'm all in favor of you having autonomy and making decisions. However, if you elect to not vaccinate your kids for measles, then your kids should not be allowed in schools, public pools, public parks, etc.

It's a public safety issue.
If we are a free country, then we are free to do what is right as we see it as long as we don't infringe on the rights of others.
And by setting yourselves up as disease distribution centers, you are infringing on the rights of others.

So, again, if you are willing to live in isolation - you are free to do as you like. However, if you plan to associate with the rest of the population, then you must take the most basic precautions so as to not cause a pandemic.
I believe I have mentioned that fluoride is a poisonous byproduct from processing bauxite into aluminum, which it is.
Fluoride is only poisonous at toxic levels, just like EVERYTHING ELSE. Oxygen is poisonous at toxic levels. Nitrogen is poisonous at toxic levels. Water is poisonous at toxic levels.

However, at the levels in which fluoride is present in your water, it helps prevent tooth decay.

It is a massively beneficial additive, like iodine in salt, which has made various medical problems virtually non-existent.

When was the last time you saw someone with a goiter?
I've also said that I do not believe that research funded by any of the major corporations on GMO foods is trustworthy as they tend to pay for the results they want.
If you wish to find fault with any of that, by all means do so, but please don't assume things I haven't said. If you want to know, just ask me.
You are implying that the majority of research about GMO safety is funded by GMOs. Do you have any evidence that supports that? Or is that what you just feel like you believe?

Since: Feb 13

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#7284
Apr 30, 2013
 
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's the problem with your thinking. You and you kids are not "the People". The 99.99% of everyone else is "the People".
When you don't get vaccinated, you are setting up a situation in which your disregard for the health of others can cause serious harm to the 99.99% who are not you.
Now, I'm all in favor of you having autonomy and making decisions. However, if you elect to not vaccinate your kids for measles, then your kids should not be allowed in schools, public pools, public parks, etc.
It's a public safety issue.
<quoted text>
And by setting yourselves up as disease distribution centers, you are infringing on the rights of others.
So, again, if you are willing to live in isolation - you are free to do as you like. However, if you plan to associate with the rest of the population, then you must take the most basic precautions so as to not cause a pandemic.
<quoted text>
Fluoride is only poisonous at toxic levels, just like EVERYTHING ELSE. Oxygen is poisonous at toxic levels. Nitrogen is poisonous at toxic levels. Water is poisonous at toxic levels.
However, at the levels in which fluoride is present in your water, it helps prevent tooth decay.
It is a massively beneficial additive, like iodine in salt, which has made various medical problems virtually non-existent.
When was the last time you saw someone with a goiter?
<quoted text>
You are implying that the majority of research about GMO safety is funded by GMOs. Do you have any evidence that supports that? Or is that what you just feel like you believe?
Are you any relation to "Noggin"?:)
blah

United States

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#7285
Apr 30, 2013
 
SexySassySenior wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you any relation to "Noggin"?:)
why would anyone answer ur stupid questions?

Since: Feb 13

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#7286
Apr 30, 2013
 
blah wrote:
<quoted text>
why would anyone answer ur stupid questions?
Didn't expect an answer...just trying to lighten the Mood alittle...GROUCH!
Tired

Dandridge, TN

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#7287
Apr 30, 2013
 

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SexySassySenior wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't expect an answer...just trying to lighten the Mood alittle...GROUCH!
I think it is 'Really Sassy'- she was obviously 'blah'(as well as a lot of other things) too...
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

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#7288
May 1, 2013
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's the problem with your thinking. You and you kids are not "the People". The 99.99% of everyone else is "the People".
When you don't get vaccinated, you are setting up a situation in which your disregard for the health of others can cause serious harm to the 99.99% who are not you.
Actually, I AM the People. The US was established as a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy, but incorporating democratic principles.

Do you truly advocate tyranny of the majority over the Rights of the Individual? Such government never lasts long, as it wastes and destroys itself through its own excesses.
Nuggin wrote:
Now, I'm all in favor of you having autonomy and making decisions. However, if you elect to not vaccinate your kids for measles, then your kids should not be allowed in schools, public pools, public parks, etc.
It's a public safety issue.

And by setting yourselves up as disease distribution centers, you are infringing on the rights of others.
You're in "favor" of my autonomy? I'm so glad that the almighty YOU have given your august "favor" to my right to make my own decisions, and to live my life the way I choose.

As for the "public safety" issue, if you and your children have yielded to the government mandate and been vaccinated, what do you have to worry about? Shouldn't you be immune? If so, then what does it matter to you what I do?
Nuggin wrote:
So, again, if you are willing to live in isolation - you are free to do as you like. However, if you plan to associate with the rest of the population, then you must take the most basic precautions so as to not cause a pandemic.
<quoted text>
Fluoride is only poisonous at toxic levels, just like EVERYTHING ELSE. Oxygen is poisonous at toxic levels. Nitrogen is poisonous at toxic levels. Water is poisonous at toxic levels.
However, at the levels in which fluoride is present in your water, it helps prevent tooth decay.
It is a massively beneficial additive, like iodine in salt, which has made various medical problems virtually non-existent.
When was the last time you saw someone with a goiter?
<quoted text>
You are implying that the majority of research about GMO safety is funded by GMOs. Do you have any evidence that supports that? Or is that what you just feel like you believe?
People can educate themselves, or not, as they choose. They can think for themselves, or not, as they choose as well. You obviously think that the government should rule over the people, and I would guess that you would prefer a "soft tyranny" under an oligarchy, not unlike what the EU constitution established a few years back.

BTW the option you present is not legal, as allodial ownership is no longer an option for the 99.9% of the people. Nice for you that so few know what that word means, eh?
Trucks

Clover, SC

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#7289
May 1, 2013
 
No

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7290
May 1, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I AM the People. The US was established as a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy, but incorporating democratic principles.
Do you truly advocate tyranny of the majority over the Rights of the Individual?
It has been long established that your rights as an individual do not extend to endangering others.

You have the right to free speech, but not to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

You have the right to the religion of your choice, but not to the _practice_ of child sacrifice.

You can own a business, but not one that pollutes the water supply.
You can own a firearm, but not if you are going to fire it randomly into crowds.
You're in "favor" of my autonomy? I'm so glad that the almighty YOU have given your august "favor" to my right to make my own decisions, and to live my life the way I choose.
And you do, but you need to accept the consequences of those decisions. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing not to send your kids to public school, public parks, public pools, etc.
As for the "public safety" issue, if you and your children have yielded to the government mandate and been vaccinated, what do you have to worry about? Shouldn't you be immune? If so, then what does it matter to you what I do?
Your ignorance of how immunization works does not change how it works.

Herd immunity works not because it prevents you from ever getting the virus, but because it limits the number of hosts for the virus so it doesn't have time to adapt around the vaccine.

Additionally, there are individuals who can not be vaccinated (kids in cancer treatment for example).

If a virus hits an area and there are enough hosts, then it will stick around, adapt, and eventual infect others.

If there aren't enough hosts, it will infect one or two people, fail to adapt and die out.

If you elect to have your kids serve as hosts for the virus, you are endangering the lives of everyone.
People can educate themselves, or not, as they choose. They can think for themselves, or not, as they choose as well. You obviously think that the government should rule over the people, and I would guess that you would prefer a "soft tyranny" under an oligarchy, not unlike what the EU constitution established a few years back.
BTW the option you present is not legal, as allodial ownership is no longer an option for the 99.9% of the people. Nice for you that so few know what that word means, eh?
You are free to make decisions, but you are NOT free to avoid the consequences of the decisions you make.

You can choose to not educate your children, but then your children are NOT going to go to the University of your choice.

This isn't a matter of majority rule or government control.

It's simply a matter of choice and the consequences of that choice.

If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing to keep your children away from the children of responsible parents because you will be endangering their lives.
geez

Kingsport, TN

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#7291
May 1, 2013
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
It has been long established that your rights as an individual do not extend to endangering others.
You have the right to free speech, but not to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
You have the right to the religion of your choice, but not to the _practice_ of child sacrifice.
You can own a business, but not one that pollutes the water supply.
You can own a firearm, but not if you are going to fire it randomly into crowds.
<quoted text>
And you do, but you need to accept the consequences of those decisions. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing not to send your kids to public school, public parks, public pools, etc.
<quoted text>
Your ignorance of how immunization works does not change how it works.
Herd immunity works not because it prevents you from ever getting the virus, but because it limits the number of hosts for the virus so it doesn't have time to adapt around the vaccine.
Additionally, there are individuals who can not be vaccinated (kids in cancer treatment for example).
If a virus hits an area and there are enough hosts, then it will stick around, adapt, and eventual infect others.
If there aren't enough hosts, it will infect one or two people, fail to adapt and die out.
If you elect to have your kids serve as hosts for the virus, you are endangering the lives of everyone.
<quoted text>
You are free to make decisions, but you are NOT free to avoid the consequences of the decisions you make.
You can choose to not educate your children, but then your children are NOT going to go to the University of your choice.
This isn't a matter of majority rule or government control.
It's simply a matter of choice and the consequences of that choice.
If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing to keep your children away from the children of responsible parents because you will be endangering their lives.
If everyone is so scared of others not vaccinated , then why don't you take your family and live in a bubble somewhere far, far away.....smh
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

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#7292
May 1, 2013
 

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Good point Geeze. Had to chuckle at that one.
Nuggin wrote:
It has been long established that your rights as an individual do not extend to endangering others.
You have the right to free speech, but not to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
You have the right to the religion of your choice, but not to the _practice_ of child sacrifice.
You can own a business, but not one that pollutes the water supply.
You can own a firearm, but not if you are going to fire it randomly into crowds.
<quoted text>
And you do, but you need to accept the consequences of those decisions. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing not to send your kids to public school, public parks, public pools, etc.
<quoted text>
Your ignorance of how immunization works does not change how it works.
Herd immunity works not because it prevents you from ever getting the virus, but because it limits the number of hosts for the virus so it doesn't have time to adapt around the vaccine.
Additionally, there are individuals who can not be vaccinated (kids in cancer treatment for example).
If a virus hits an area and there are enough hosts, then it will stick around, adapt, and eventual infect others.
If there aren't enough hosts, it will infect one or two people, fail to adapt and die out.
If you elect to have your kids serve as hosts for the virus, you are endangering the lives of everyone.
<quoted text>
You are free to make decisions, but you are NOT free to avoid the consequences of the decisions you make.
You can choose to not educate your children, but then your children are NOT going to go to the University of your choice.
This isn't a matter of majority rule or government control.
It's simply a matter of choice and the consequences of that choice.
If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing to keep your children away from the children of responsible parents because you will be endangering their lives.
Do you remember I said you should not assume anything where I am concerned? You really should have listened.

I should really thank you though. You have very nicely encapsulated the mentality that has led us into this oligarchical tyranny, and the reasoning that has convinced the "herd" to abdicate their rights as Americans.

In short, if I've read your posts properly, you believe the people are too stupid to conduct their own affairs, so the government must do it for them. We disagree.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7293
May 1, 2013
 

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geez wrote:
<quoted text>If everyone is so scared of others not vaccinated , then why don't you take your family and live in a bubble somewhere far, far away.....smh
So, 99% of the people should be isolated so that the 1% who refuse to get vaccinated can make irresponsible choices?

That makes sense to you?

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7294
May 1, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
Good point Geeze. Had to chuckle at that one.
<quoted text>
Do you remember I said you should not assume anything where I am concerned? You really should have listened.
I should really thank you though. You have very nicely encapsulated the mentality that has led us into this oligarchical tyranny, and the reasoning that has convinced the "herd" to abdicate their rights as Americans.
In short, if I've read your posts properly, you believe the people are too stupid to conduct their own affairs, so the government must do it for them. We disagree.
This has nothing to do with rights.

You HAVE the right to no vaccinate your kids.
IF you make that choice, you are forgoing the ability to have your kids attend public school.

No one has taken your rights away. You just have to live with the consequences.

You want don't want freedom from government, you want freedom from responsibility. You want to make whatever choice you want to make and not suffer any consequences of making that choice.

That's not how a society works.

Don't go blaming the government for your bad decisions.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7295
May 1, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
In short, if I've read your posts properly, you believe the people are too stupid to conduct their own affairs, so the government must do it for them. We disagree.
You have the right to bear arms.
You have the right to fire off those arms.

Should you have the right to fire off those arms into crowds of people? Isn't it the government infringing on your rights by telling you that doing that is dangerous to everyone else.

Am I advocating a nanny state when I say we should have police that arrest people who fire guns into crowds?

If you choose to not vaccinate your kids, you are endangering THEIR lives _AND_ the lives of everyone else.

It is perfectly reasonable for _EVERYONE ELSE_ to say "We don't want your dangerous kids around our kids."

Choices HAVE consequences.
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

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#7296
May 1, 2013
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
You have the right to bear arms.
You have the right to fire off those arms.
Should you have the right to fire off those arms into crowds of people? Isn't it the government infringing on your rights by telling you that doing that is dangerous to everyone else.
Am I advocating a nanny state when I say we should have police that arrest people who fire guns into crowds?
If you choose to not vaccinate your kids, you are endangering THEIR lives _AND_ the lives of everyone else.
It is perfectly reasonable for _EVERYONE ELSE_ to say "We don't want your dangerous kids around our kids."
Choices HAVE consequences.
Who is talking about firing guns into crowds of people? Me? No, that would be you. As I've already covered, your rights end where mine begin, and mine end where yours begin. You immediately assume I will violate someone else's rights; why? Come to think about it, you do a lot of assuming.

Let me give you a little glimpse into a larger picture.

http://www.pwc.com/en_US/us/tax-services-mult...

This is a PDF form discussing global taxation from 5+ years ago. Interesting read, but what does it have to do with us? Well, that's where link 2 comes in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon

Back when this was being talked about in certain forums, and the news media was widely ignoring it, the "official buzz" was that this was just a treaty agreement and not really finalizing the EU's Constitution, establishing an Oligarchy which passes laws that individual parliaments may discuss and even disagree with, but have no power to alter.

Whether the government has the power to mandate vaccinations or not is a very small issue, but it is not insignificant. Illegal immigration is also a small, but not insignificant, issue which speaks to a larger issue already coming together globally.

Once I kept links to items worthy of note, but in 2008 and 2009 many of those websites went offline. Google "Non-productive Eaters" and look for the connection between that term and the Nazis. I just did that search and through 3 pages didn't see but one possibility for such a connection. However there are other hits that might make one wonder just how trustworthy any government is, or is likely to be in the coming years.
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

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#7297
May 1, 2013
 

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My point is, as it has always been, the sovereignty of the individual over the permitted authority of the government. The government has only the authority we allow it to have, no more, but if we allow it too much authority bad things tend to happen.

Consider how many deaths in Oak Ridge over the past 70 years have been the result of contamination, but were covered up by the government to avoid its own responsibilities. Same government that falsely reported a VC attack in the Gulf of Tonkin, which embroiled us in Vietnam and cost 58,000 men and women on the US side, and God only knows how many South Vietnamese, Viet Cong, Cambodians, Laosians, and Chinese. Same government that kept the US in some conflict for 2/3 of the 20th Century. And you want us to trust this government?

Who would be stupid enough to trust such a government? Certainly not a Free People, but maybe people indoctrinated on the doctrines of interdependency would.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7298
May 1, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
Whether the government has the power to mandate vaccinations or not is a very small issue, but it is not insignificant.
You think it is not significant because your child didn't die of a preventable disease as a result of someone else electing to forgo vaccination.

I suspect if you talk to the parents who have lost children to the resurgence of measel and mumps, you would find that THEY think it's a VERY significant issue.

You are perfectly within your rights to endanger your children. You are not within your rights to endanger EVERYONE ELSE'S children.

And when ignorance leads to dangerous behavior, it is important for SOMEONE to step in and tell the ignorant minority to STOP doing the thing which is endangering the majority.

Refusing to vaccinate your kids endangers the lives of EVERYONE.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7299
May 1, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
My point is, as it has always been, the sovereignty of the individual over the permitted authority of the government. The government has only the authority we allow it to have, no more, but if we allow it too much authority bad things tend to happen.
Consider how many deaths in Oak Ridge over the past 70 years have been the result of contamination, but were covered up by the government to avoid its own responsibilities. Same government that falsely reported a VC attack in the Gulf of Tonkin, which embroiled us in Vietnam and cost 58,000 men and women on the US side, and God only knows how many South Vietnamese, Viet Cong, Cambodians, Laosians, and Chinese. Same government that kept the US in some conflict for 2/3 of the 20th Century. And you want us to trust this government?
Who would be stupid enough to trust such a government? Certainly not a Free People, but maybe people indoctrinated on the doctrines of interdependency would.
This sort of argument is beneath you and you know it.

It's not the "same government".

The medical doctors who are advising the CDC on how to prevent massive outbreaks of preventable diseases are NOT responsible for the war in Vietnam.

This would be like me arguing that "the same citizens who shot all those kids in Newtown are opposing vaccines".

After all, that guy was a citizen. You are a citizen. Same thing.

It's a childish line of argument, and if you can't see that, you've got a bigger problem on your hands than just killing your own children.

Since: Feb 13

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#7300
May 1, 2013
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
So, 99% of the people should be isolated so that the 1% who refuse to get vaccinated can make irresponsible choices?
That makes sense to you?
Unfortunately, judging by the level of intelligence that the Scud Trolls possess, on this Forum alone, I would have to say the Gov't. is right to assume that some of the People aren't capable of making their own decisions, in any sane and rational way.
My 2 Cents

Murfreesboro, TN

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#7301
May 1, 2013
 

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SexySassySenior wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, judging by the level of intelligence that the Scud Trolls possess, on this Forum alone, I would have to say the Gov't. is right to assume that some of the People aren't capable of making their own decisions, in any sane and rational way.
The government does not have the right to "assume", any way anyhow, assumption is never the right approach.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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May 1, 2013
 

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My 2 Cents wrote:
<quoted text>The government does not have the right to "assume", any way anyhow, assumption is never the right approach.
There's no assumption here.

We know what viruses are. We know what vaccines are. We know how vaccines work. We know what happens when people don't get vaccinated.

It's a public safety issue.

Just like putting out fires or arresting criminals.

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