Should state mandate immunizations? New requirements effective in July

May 4, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Chattanoogan.com

Immunizations are one of the most efficient and cost-effective ways to protect children against childhood diseases and Tennessee law requires documented immunizations.

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Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7274
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, "all food is GMO" is subject to interpretation. Hybridization has been part of farming for thousands of years, and in this sense your statement is true, but via the process of producing chimera plants and the possibility of future chimera animals is another topic altogether.
Maybe foods could take a page from the Milk industry's play book. Notice that milk that does not contain RBST {bovine growth hormones} are so labeled, but those that do have no labeling.
Then you don't need legislation for that.

The milk that does not have RBST isn't labeled as not having it because the FDA says so. They are labeled as not having it because the industry thinks there is a market that cares and is chasing after it.

But, it's important to recognize that "RBST exists"/"doesn't exist" is an extremely precise question and is testable.

"All GMO" is not precise nor testable.

"This ham is not from a genetically engineered pig" - well technically, ALL pigs have been selectively breed for thousands of years.

"This ham is not from a pig which ate anything genetically engineered" - Now you have to have precise knowledge of all food consumed by the pig during its lifetime.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7275
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, some water does come with a warning {No Swimming, No Diving, etc.}:-)
Yeah, I mean that drinking water can kill you if you drink too much.
Okay, down to it. Yes, I live in Tennessee, in Anderson county to be as specific as I wish to be.
More than you need to be. I just needed a state to google search "coal plants number" for.
There are reasons to be cautious, for sure, but my big argument is that government does not have the right to rule over me, or pass laws that attempt to rule my life and/or that of my family. There are some exceptions that are reasonable, but they are very few and very far between.
I assume this means you support abortion and gay marriage then.
As for Nuclear Reactors in Tennessee, back in the 70's there was a plan to build a Breeder Reactor in Oak Ridge, but Jimmy Carter killed the project. The appeal of the Breeder Reactor was that it produced more fuel than it used, which would assure cheap and abundant electricity for all of East Tennessee once implemented. Somehow folks around Oak Ridge got the idea that it would blow up, or melt down and poison the whole area.
Given what was happening at the time, probably a wise decision. However, today's nuclear power plants put out only a fraction of the radioactive waste spewed by coal plants.
No one can point to any deaths resulting from GMO foods because there hasn't been enough research done, nor has there been long term exposure to study.
There's been a lot of research done which shows no ill effects. The problem is, like with anything where people are afraid, you could do 10,000 tests that show no harm and someone does 1 test that shows harm and everyone latches onto the 1 test no matter the quality of the test.
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

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#7276
Apr 26, 2013
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, I mean that drinking water can kill you if you drink too much.
<quoted text>
More than you need to be. I just needed a state to google search "coal plants number" for.
<quoted text>
I assume this means you support abortion and gay marriage then.
<quoted text>
Given what was happening at the time, probably a wise decision. However, today's nuclear power plants put out only a fraction of the radioactive waste spewed by coal plants.
<quoted text>
There's been a lot of research done which shows no ill effects. The problem is, like with anything where people are afraid, you could do 10,000 tests that show no harm and someone does 1 test that shows harm and everyone latches onto the 1 test no matter the quality of the test.
Assuming is unwise. Read more closely and exactly; I did say exactly what I meant.

As for the rest, time will tell, but would you agree, or disagree with the proposition that research can slant based on funding origins? "Expert witnesses" tend in this direction.
Justme

Crossville, TN

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#7277
Apr 26, 2013
 

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hillbilly wrote:
<quoted text>if your child attends school yes they are mandatory,no way around it,,also the courts have ruled in several cases not getting the shots is child neglect.
You can opt out for religious reasons, atleast in TN.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7278
Apr 26, 2013
 
Done my homework wrote:
<quoted text>
Assuming is unwise. Read more closely and exactly; I did say exactly what I meant.
As for the rest, time will tell, but would you agree, or disagree with the proposition that research can slant based on funding origins? "Expert witnesses" tend in this direction.
both ways thats why you look at how the study was done
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

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#7280
Apr 30, 2013
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
both ways thats why you look at how the study was done
The days of independent research, I think, are done and gone. Put simply, everything is for sale, so as a consumer it is always wise to err on the side of distrust and healthy paranoia with some serious cynicism mixed in for good measure.

Now that's just my opinion, but it may also be that I'm just a contrary old fart. <shrug>

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7281
Apr 30, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
<quoted text>
The days of independent research, I think, are done and gone. Put simply, everything is for sale, so as a consumer it is always wise to err on the side of distrust and healthy paranoia with some serious cynicism mixed in for good measure.
Now that's just my opinion, but it may also be that I'm just a contrary old fart. <shrug>
the problem is that people who hold that position don't apply it evenly.

You guys say: "Well, here's a study from Harvard Medical School which says that homeopathy is bunk. I'm going to choose to be skeptical."

But you don't apply the same skepticism to Wakefield's obviously fraudulent claims.

Why is that?
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

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#7282
Apr 30, 2013
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
the problem is that people who hold that position don't apply it evenly.
You guys say: "Well, here's a study from Harvard Medical School which says that homeopathy is bunk. I'm going to choose to be skeptical."
But you don't apply the same skepticism to Wakefield's obviously fraudulent claims.
Why is that?
Well, I didn't know who Wakefield was until you brought his name up and I looked him up. If you've read any of my posts I'm sure you'll find I don't get into that part of the argument because I'm not informed enough on it to voice an opinion.

My position has been and remains that the government does not have the right to mandate what I do with my body, nor what I direct for my own children/family. It, the government, exists only to serve the needs of the People, not the other way around.

If we are a free country, then we are free to do what is right as we see it as long as we don't infringe on the rights of others. We have the right to follow our faith system, be it religious or otherwise, and to deal with the consequences ourselves. We do not have the right to tell others what to do, nor to use the force of law to do so, as that is tyranny of the majority, mob rule, or democracy; call it what you like, but all terms apply.

I believe I have mentioned that fluoride is a poisonous byproduct from processing bauxite into aluminum, which it is. I've also said that I do not believe that research funded by any of the major corporations on GMO foods is trustworthy as they tend to pay for the results they want.

If you wish to find fault with any of that, by all means do so, but please don't assume things I haven't said. If you want to know, just ask me.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7283
Apr 30, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
My position has been and remains that the government does not have the right to mandate what I do with my body, nor what I direct for my own children/family. It, the government, exists only to serve the needs of the People, not the other way around.
Here's the problem with your thinking. You and you kids are not "the People". The 99.99% of everyone else is "the People".

When you don't get vaccinated, you are setting up a situation in which your disregard for the health of others can cause serious harm to the 99.99% who are not you.

Now, I'm all in favor of you having autonomy and making decisions. However, if you elect to not vaccinate your kids for measles, then your kids should not be allowed in schools, public pools, public parks, etc.

It's a public safety issue.
If we are a free country, then we are free to do what is right as we see it as long as we don't infringe on the rights of others.
And by setting yourselves up as disease distribution centers, you are infringing on the rights of others.

So, again, if you are willing to live in isolation - you are free to do as you like. However, if you plan to associate with the rest of the population, then you must take the most basic precautions so as to not cause a pandemic.
I believe I have mentioned that fluoride is a poisonous byproduct from processing bauxite into aluminum, which it is.
Fluoride is only poisonous at toxic levels, just like EVERYTHING ELSE. Oxygen is poisonous at toxic levels. Nitrogen is poisonous at toxic levels. Water is poisonous at toxic levels.

However, at the levels in which fluoride is present in your water, it helps prevent tooth decay.

It is a massively beneficial additive, like iodine in salt, which has made various medical problems virtually non-existent.

When was the last time you saw someone with a goiter?
I've also said that I do not believe that research funded by any of the major corporations on GMO foods is trustworthy as they tend to pay for the results they want.
If you wish to find fault with any of that, by all means do so, but please don't assume things I haven't said. If you want to know, just ask me.
You are implying that the majority of research about GMO safety is funded by GMOs. Do you have any evidence that supports that? Or is that what you just feel like you believe?

Since: Feb 13

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#7284
Apr 30, 2013
 
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's the problem with your thinking. You and you kids are not "the People". The 99.99% of everyone else is "the People".
When you don't get vaccinated, you are setting up a situation in which your disregard for the health of others can cause serious harm to the 99.99% who are not you.
Now, I'm all in favor of you having autonomy and making decisions. However, if you elect to not vaccinate your kids for measles, then your kids should not be allowed in schools, public pools, public parks, etc.
It's a public safety issue.
<quoted text>
And by setting yourselves up as disease distribution centers, you are infringing on the rights of others.
So, again, if you are willing to live in isolation - you are free to do as you like. However, if you plan to associate with the rest of the population, then you must take the most basic precautions so as to not cause a pandemic.
<quoted text>
Fluoride is only poisonous at toxic levels, just like EVERYTHING ELSE. Oxygen is poisonous at toxic levels. Nitrogen is poisonous at toxic levels. Water is poisonous at toxic levels.
However, at the levels in which fluoride is present in your water, it helps prevent tooth decay.
It is a massively beneficial additive, like iodine in salt, which has made various medical problems virtually non-existent.
When was the last time you saw someone with a goiter?
<quoted text>
You are implying that the majority of research about GMO safety is funded by GMOs. Do you have any evidence that supports that? Or is that what you just feel like you believe?
Are you any relation to "Noggin"?:)
blah

United States

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#7285
Apr 30, 2013
 
SexySassySenior wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you any relation to "Noggin"?:)
why would anyone answer ur stupid questions?

Since: Feb 13

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#7286
Apr 30, 2013
 
blah wrote:
<quoted text>
why would anyone answer ur stupid questions?
Didn't expect an answer...just trying to lighten the Mood alittle...GROUCH!
Tired

Dandridge, TN

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#7287
Apr 30, 2013
 

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SexySassySenior wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't expect an answer...just trying to lighten the Mood alittle...GROUCH!
I think it is 'Really Sassy'- she was obviously 'blah'(as well as a lot of other things) too...
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

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#7288
May 1, 2013
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's the problem with your thinking. You and you kids are not "the People". The 99.99% of everyone else is "the People".
When you don't get vaccinated, you are setting up a situation in which your disregard for the health of others can cause serious harm to the 99.99% who are not you.
Actually, I AM the People. The US was established as a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy, but incorporating democratic principles.

Do you truly advocate tyranny of the majority over the Rights of the Individual? Such government never lasts long, as it wastes and destroys itself through its own excesses.
Nuggin wrote:
Now, I'm all in favor of you having autonomy and making decisions. However, if you elect to not vaccinate your kids for measles, then your kids should not be allowed in schools, public pools, public parks, etc.
It's a public safety issue.

And by setting yourselves up as disease distribution centers, you are infringing on the rights of others.
You're in "favor" of my autonomy? I'm so glad that the almighty YOU have given your august "favor" to my right to make my own decisions, and to live my life the way I choose.

As for the "public safety" issue, if you and your children have yielded to the government mandate and been vaccinated, what do you have to worry about? Shouldn't you be immune? If so, then what does it matter to you what I do?
Nuggin wrote:
So, again, if you are willing to live in isolation - you are free to do as you like. However, if you plan to associate with the rest of the population, then you must take the most basic precautions so as to not cause a pandemic.
<quoted text>
Fluoride is only poisonous at toxic levels, just like EVERYTHING ELSE. Oxygen is poisonous at toxic levels. Nitrogen is poisonous at toxic levels. Water is poisonous at toxic levels.
However, at the levels in which fluoride is present in your water, it helps prevent tooth decay.
It is a massively beneficial additive, like iodine in salt, which has made various medical problems virtually non-existent.
When was the last time you saw someone with a goiter?
<quoted text>
You are implying that the majority of research about GMO safety is funded by GMOs. Do you have any evidence that supports that? Or is that what you just feel like you believe?
People can educate themselves, or not, as they choose. They can think for themselves, or not, as they choose as well. You obviously think that the government should rule over the people, and I would guess that you would prefer a "soft tyranny" under an oligarchy, not unlike what the EU constitution established a few years back.

BTW the option you present is not legal, as allodial ownership is no longer an option for the 99.9% of the people. Nice for you that so few know what that word means, eh?
Trucks

Clover, SC

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#7289
May 1, 2013
 
No

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7290
May 1, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I AM the People. The US was established as a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy, but incorporating democratic principles.
Do you truly advocate tyranny of the majority over the Rights of the Individual?
It has been long established that your rights as an individual do not extend to endangering others.

You have the right to free speech, but not to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

You have the right to the religion of your choice, but not to the _practice_ of child sacrifice.

You can own a business, but not one that pollutes the water supply.
You can own a firearm, but not if you are going to fire it randomly into crowds.
You're in "favor" of my autonomy? I'm so glad that the almighty YOU have given your august "favor" to my right to make my own decisions, and to live my life the way I choose.
And you do, but you need to accept the consequences of those decisions. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing not to send your kids to public school, public parks, public pools, etc.
As for the "public safety" issue, if you and your children have yielded to the government mandate and been vaccinated, what do you have to worry about? Shouldn't you be immune? If so, then what does it matter to you what I do?
Your ignorance of how immunization works does not change how it works.

Herd immunity works not because it prevents you from ever getting the virus, but because it limits the number of hosts for the virus so it doesn't have time to adapt around the vaccine.

Additionally, there are individuals who can not be vaccinated (kids in cancer treatment for example).

If a virus hits an area and there are enough hosts, then it will stick around, adapt, and eventual infect others.

If there aren't enough hosts, it will infect one or two people, fail to adapt and die out.

If you elect to have your kids serve as hosts for the virus, you are endangering the lives of everyone.
People can educate themselves, or not, as they choose. They can think for themselves, or not, as they choose as well. You obviously think that the government should rule over the people, and I would guess that you would prefer a "soft tyranny" under an oligarchy, not unlike what the EU constitution established a few years back.
BTW the option you present is not legal, as allodial ownership is no longer an option for the 99.9% of the people. Nice for you that so few know what that word means, eh?
You are free to make decisions, but you are NOT free to avoid the consequences of the decisions you make.

You can choose to not educate your children, but then your children are NOT going to go to the University of your choice.

This isn't a matter of majority rule or government control.

It's simply a matter of choice and the consequences of that choice.

If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing to keep your children away from the children of responsible parents because you will be endangering their lives.
geez

Kingsport, TN

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#7291
May 1, 2013
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
It has been long established that your rights as an individual do not extend to endangering others.
You have the right to free speech, but not to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
You have the right to the religion of your choice, but not to the _practice_ of child sacrifice.
You can own a business, but not one that pollutes the water supply.
You can own a firearm, but not if you are going to fire it randomly into crowds.
<quoted text>
And you do, but you need to accept the consequences of those decisions. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing not to send your kids to public school, public parks, public pools, etc.
<quoted text>
Your ignorance of how immunization works does not change how it works.
Herd immunity works not because it prevents you from ever getting the virus, but because it limits the number of hosts for the virus so it doesn't have time to adapt around the vaccine.
Additionally, there are individuals who can not be vaccinated (kids in cancer treatment for example).
If a virus hits an area and there are enough hosts, then it will stick around, adapt, and eventual infect others.
If there aren't enough hosts, it will infect one or two people, fail to adapt and die out.
If you elect to have your kids serve as hosts for the virus, you are endangering the lives of everyone.
<quoted text>
You are free to make decisions, but you are NOT free to avoid the consequences of the decisions you make.
You can choose to not educate your children, but then your children are NOT going to go to the University of your choice.
This isn't a matter of majority rule or government control.
It's simply a matter of choice and the consequences of that choice.
If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing to keep your children away from the children of responsible parents because you will be endangering their lives.
If everyone is so scared of others not vaccinated , then why don't you take your family and live in a bubble somewhere far, far away.....smh
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

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#7292
May 1, 2013
 

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Good point Geeze. Had to chuckle at that one.
Nuggin wrote:
It has been long established that your rights as an individual do not extend to endangering others.
You have the right to free speech, but not to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
You have the right to the religion of your choice, but not to the _practice_ of child sacrifice.
You can own a business, but not one that pollutes the water supply.
You can own a firearm, but not if you are going to fire it randomly into crowds.
<quoted text>
And you do, but you need to accept the consequences of those decisions. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing not to send your kids to public school, public parks, public pools, etc.
<quoted text>
Your ignorance of how immunization works does not change how it works.
Herd immunity works not because it prevents you from ever getting the virus, but because it limits the number of hosts for the virus so it doesn't have time to adapt around the vaccine.
Additionally, there are individuals who can not be vaccinated (kids in cancer treatment for example).
If a virus hits an area and there are enough hosts, then it will stick around, adapt, and eventual infect others.
If there aren't enough hosts, it will infect one or two people, fail to adapt and die out.
If you elect to have your kids serve as hosts for the virus, you are endangering the lives of everyone.
<quoted text>
You are free to make decisions, but you are NOT free to avoid the consequences of the decisions you make.
You can choose to not educate your children, but then your children are NOT going to go to the University of your choice.
This isn't a matter of majority rule or government control.
It's simply a matter of choice and the consequences of that choice.
If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then you are choosing to keep your children away from the children of responsible parents because you will be endangering their lives.
Do you remember I said you should not assume anything where I am concerned? You really should have listened.

I should really thank you though. You have very nicely encapsulated the mentality that has led us into this oligarchical tyranny, and the reasoning that has convinced the "herd" to abdicate their rights as Americans.

In short, if I've read your posts properly, you believe the people are too stupid to conduct their own affairs, so the government must do it for them. We disagree.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7293
May 1, 2013
 

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geez wrote:
<quoted text>If everyone is so scared of others not vaccinated , then why don't you take your family and live in a bubble somewhere far, far away.....smh
So, 99% of the people should be isolated so that the 1% who refuse to get vaccinated can make irresponsible choices?

That makes sense to you?

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#7294
May 1, 2013
 

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Done my homework wrote:
Good point Geeze. Had to chuckle at that one.
<quoted text>
Do you remember I said you should not assume anything where I am concerned? You really should have listened.
I should really thank you though. You have very nicely encapsulated the mentality that has led us into this oligarchical tyranny, and the reasoning that has convinced the "herd" to abdicate their rights as Americans.
In short, if I've read your posts properly, you believe the people are too stupid to conduct their own affairs, so the government must do it for them. We disagree.
This has nothing to do with rights.

You HAVE the right to no vaccinate your kids.
IF you make that choice, you are forgoing the ability to have your kids attend public school.

No one has taken your rights away. You just have to live with the consequences.

You want don't want freedom from government, you want freedom from responsibility. You want to make whatever choice you want to make and not suffer any consequences of making that choice.

That's not how a society works.

Don't go blaming the government for your bad decisions.

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