Are more black men really in jail than in college? -

Full story: Baltimore Sun

Are more black men behind bars than in college? The answer lies in who is doing the counting - and how.
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Janks Morton

Springfield, VA

#1 Oct 12, 2007
I reviewed your article, and I am at a point of concern as it relates to the symbiosis of the Justice Policy Institute and “Journalists” who continue to source this organization for this flawed comparison. I believe this point needs absolute clarification, and while you imply the truth lies between myself and the JPI, and you so diligently (and accurately) explain)the census data and its potential shortcomings, why did you not make one phone call to the NCES regarding the accuracy of the JPI data? If you would, please contact the NCES regarding the data for FY 2000 and you will find that NCES did not collect unduplicated 12 month headcount enrollment for African American males until FY 2001. The 603,032 number used by this organization, in its fraudulent inception was a mid-year forecast for fall enrollment ONLY (actual year end fall enrollment was 657,000) and their “study” did not include spring enrollment for 2000. And as we so readily refer constantly back to the JPI as “the source” for the cellblocks vs. classrooms data, and easily as my research and credibility is refuted by this source, why is that no one has “uncovered this story”. And you final assumption falls directly in line with fallacious postulate forwarded by this organization who massaged the data to justify an ends.
Finally your correct analysis of “the less representative the coverage of the survey, the less sure one can be of the accuracy of the estimated number. And - surprise - the Current Population Survey's lowest coverage rate is among young black men” only helps support the argument that while the census coverage may be lacking as it relates to AA Males (a popular premise that I have not seen proved or disproved by any ones research), the count still surpasses that which is incarcerated. So if they gather additional coverage is it not logical to assume the count would increase more?
Please stop dumbing us down, do more fair and accurate research, and before publishing and assuming the worst about us.
Janks Morton
Darryl Crosby

Kent, OH

#2 Oct 12, 2007
The idea of comparing the 18-24 year old prison population makes sense until you consider that many of us are incarcerated for decades. It would make more sense to count how old the offender was when he went to jail because at that point the inmate was tracked towards the prison system rather than the educational system.

Furthermore, when we look at the disputed numbers it's pretty close to even as far as black men in prison as compared to college. Isn't that telling enough? Why are we arguing over a stupid sound bite. Lets compare the ratio of Black men in prison versus college with that of white men in prison versus college. That's where the truth of our current situation will be found.
G T Dread

Suitland, MD

#3 Oct 12, 2007
Using the Justice Policy Institute methodology, would you also get more white men in prison than in college, or numbers that are similar? I'd also be willing to bet that if you just looked at the lowest income percentile of white men, you'd find that many more fo them are likely to go to jail/prison that college.
where is the surprise

Willow Grove, PA

#4 Oct 12, 2007
i think i like the clarence thomas position more and more each day ... conservative ... the man knows his roots and claims fredrick douglas in his decisions ... i would rather deal with the evil that is rather than have it covered up in platitudes and feel good b/s social engineering .... from a bunch of self serving liberal blowhards
Should we Expect

Burlington, MA

#5 Oct 12, 2007
anything less from the Baltimore Sun? Are they not part of the problem? Biased and slanted representations of blacks abound, and now trying to refute a brother who's trying to lift us all up. Just add a sell-out psychologist to the mix and the mental enslavement continues

“MAAFA (African Holocaust)”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#6 Oct 12, 2007
I want to thank Janks Morton for pointing out the disparities in reporting on black males in college/jail. I do believe that they're always trying to portray black males in a bad light. According to the FBI 2006 crime stats, whites commit the majority of crimes in this country.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/arrests/index...

However, I believe we need to ask these questions: If whites commit the majority of crimes, then why are there more black males in prison than whites? Why the harsher sentences for blacks than for whites for similar crimes?
apples and oranges

Cambridge, MA

#7 Oct 15, 2007
I am glad that people are bringing light to these topics, but I have to admit that I feel a bit disheartened by the comments to this op-ed piece. In this reader's opinion, this article simply states that there is a problem in our society when it comes to the numbers of black males in prison - full stop. There is also a problem in this society when it comes to the number of black males in college - full stop. In all honesty, the comparison between these numbers is of no consequence what-so-ever. I feel concerned that are 800,000 black men incarcerated, plus or minus any number you might see fit. I also feel concerned that there are only 800,000 black men in college, again plus or minus whatever factor of your choice. In an ideal world, the comments to this piece would not be about fact-checking and hateful phrases like "sell-out". Instead, it would be about suggestions as to what we could all do to increase those black men that attain higher education and decrease the numbers of those that find themselves in prison. What types of things can individuals and communities do to build up black men and the black community at-large? Those are the types of things that "society can do about it" as the author suggests. Hate-filled words and debate about the crossing of t's and dotting of i's really seems to take away from helping out a group of people are that are getting the short end of the stick, no matter which way you look at the numbers.
Tired Of Ghettos

United States

#9 Oct 16, 2007
Mother Africa wrote:
I want to thank Janks Morton for pointing out the disparities in reporting on black males in college/jail. I do believe that they're always trying to portray black males in a bad light. According to the FBI 2006 crime stats, whites commit the majority of crimes in this country.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/arrests/index...
However, I believe we need to ask these questions: If whites commit the majority of crimes, then why are there more black males in prison than whites? Why the harsher sentences for blacks than for whites for similar crimes?
"According to the FBI 2006 crime stats, whites commit the majority of crimes in this country."

Blacks make up about 14% of the population of the United States. So let's look at your statement. On the FBI web site the stats show.

By color:

Arrest Whites: 7,270,214 Approx. Pop%: 80% or
240,000,000

Approx.% of arrest to Approx. Pop%=.031%

Arrest Blacks: 2,924,724 Approx. Pop%: 14% or
42,000,000

Approx.% of arrest to Approx. Pop%=.065%

Looks to me like the blacks double the crime rate of whites when it comes to population. So I guess with the facts you want to submit, one can come to an intelligent conclusion that the black community is twice as violent as the white community. That is a sad statement for a total population of approximately 14% of a country. Here is the web page for those who would like to do the math.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_43...
satch

Kansas City, MO

#10 Oct 16, 2007
Belouis Some wrote:
Why not look at this objectively. In the neighborhoods where these criminals live they would simply get into more trouble if not in prison. Look at places like Rwanda. You have BLACKS raping women of all ages for no reason whatsoever! Look at Dafur. Look at Africa. Black people as a whole need to wake the FUCK up and realize that they need to put a stop to the violence!!! and ignorant ways that they choose to follow.
ok let,s start by getting out of iraq.it,s ok for whites to commit violence from what i see.there is silence when whites commit atrocities but the electric chair is fired up when a black steals a hub cap
Tired Of Ghettos

Barnesville, OH

#11 Oct 16, 2007
satch wrote:
<quoted text>ok let,s start by getting out of iraq.it,s ok for whites to commit violence from what i see.there is silence when whites commit atrocities but the electric chair is fired up when a black steals a hub cap
You are obviously ignorant. It is not only whites in Iraq, which has nothing to do with the subject. The US has liberated oppressed people there by the way. Please show us where a black has been given a death sentence for pity crimes, such as stealing a hub cap. Black ignorance, if only we could bottle and sell it.
Gspan

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#12 Oct 16, 2007
Tired Of Ghettos wrote:
<quoted text>
"According to the FBI 2006 crime stats, whites commit the majority of crimes in this country."
Blacks make up about 14% of the population of the United States. So let's look at your statement. On the FBI web site the stats show.
By color:
Arrest Whites: 7,270,214 Approx. Pop%: 80% or
240,000,000
Approx.% of arrest to Approx. Pop%=.031%
Arrest Blacks: 2,924,724 Approx. Pop%: 14% or
42,000,000
Approx.% of arrest to Approx. Pop%=.065%
Looks to me like the blacks double the crime rate of whites when it comes to population. So I guess with the facts you want to submit, one can come to an intelligent conclusion that the black community is twice as violent as the white community. That is a sad statement for a total population of approximately 14% of a country. Here is the web page for those who would like to do the math.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_43...
One woould also have to intelligently ask why the percentages fall as they do. Lets take a look at world history shall we. History tells us that those with less money and power are more likely to commit lower end crimes. They are more likely to murder, steal, pimp, joing gangs, or even become thugs. If you are going to intelligently question something please commit yourself to not just go half way. If you are in a community as a boy where the only money that comes through their is from drug dealers and pimps you may start to emulate that form of life. After all a boy gets older and when he gets to the point where it's him taking care of his mother and not vice versa then he has to find a way to cut it in the society that he lives in. There are many youths in ghettos that have never been outside this area and they begin to think that this is the world that is for them. Have you ever heard of self-fulfilled prophesy? This is where a person can be told all his life he will be successful and he starts to believe it and after a while he will sub-conciously make it his destiny. Well the opposite does happen where a persons environment tells them who they are. If you have the empathy needed to investigate the why behind the what then you will begin to see that it's not a special gene or that these people are just "bad people". It has a lot to do with the forming of the mind through life circumstances that create the outcome we see today.
william johnson

Houston, TX

#13 Oct 16, 2007
I believe morre inserts should be posted concerning that topic. It's informing and all young black males need to read it.
Tired Of Ghettos

Barnesville, OH

#14 Oct 16, 2007
Gspan wrote:
<quoted text>One woould also have to intelligently ask why the percentages fall as they do. Lets take a look at world history shall we. History tells us that those with less money and power are more likely to commit lower end crimes. They are more likely to murder, steal, pimp, joing gangs, or even become thugs. If you are going to intelligently question something please commit yourself to not just go half way. If you are in a community as a boy where the only money that comes through their is from drug dealers and pimps you may start to emulate that form of life. After all a boy gets older and when he gets to the point where it's him taking care of his mother and not vice versa then he has to find a way to cut it in the society that he lives in. There are many youths in ghettos that have never been outside this area and they begin to think that this is the world that is for them. Have you ever heard of self-fulfilled prophesy? This is where a person can be told all his life he will be successful and he starts to believe it and after a while he will sub-conciously make it his destiny. Well the opposite does happen where a persons environment tells them who they are. If you have the empathy needed to investigate the why behind the what then you will begin to see that it's not a special gene or that these people are just "bad people". It has a lot to do with the forming of the mind through life circumstances that create the outcome we see today.
So let's see I was raised on 51st and Michigan in Detroit during the 60's and 70's. I am white but lived in a poor neighborhood. There were murders, drug dealers, pimps, bars, robberies etc.. But, I graduated from a public high school and never once killed, shot, mugged etc.. My high school was majority black and had all the same classes, books, supplies etc.. But, for some reason I have made myself a living and have a home and two sons that respect law and order and are educated. Can you please tell me why a black cannot do the same? I can. Because they are told from the first day by adults whites are bad. So from day one whites owe them everything. Hell why work or earn, just take it from the white person. Have you ever thanked God that the whites have not decided enough is enough? You may want to thank God the whites are still civilized. But, please always remember you can only poke a sleeping dog so many times before it wakes up and bites you.
Belouis Some

United States

#16 Oct 17, 2007
An article from the Baltimore Sun talked about the fact that the Maryland men's basketball team has a 0 percent graduation rate for players entering school from 1997 to 2000.

Hodding Carter III, a public policy professor at the University of North Carolina, said he was concerned not only about Maryland's graduation rate, but also about men's basketball programs around the country whose rates lag behind those of other sports.

Just listening to any number of basketball players being interviewed one wonders how they ever got through high school let alone made it into an accredited institution.

The point of this is that black people DO NOT try to better themselves. There is no-one holding those players back from earning their degree. Hell, they are practically given a free-ride. But an education/being educated means so little to them that they simply walk away.
Gspan

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#17 Oct 17, 2007
Tired Of Ghettos wrote:
<quoted text>
So let's see I was raised on 51st and Michigan in Detroit during the 60's and 70's. I am white but lived in a poor neighborhood. There were murders, drug dealers, pimps, bars, robberies etc.. But, I graduated from a public high school and never once killed, shot, mugged etc.. My high school was majority black and had all the same classes, books, supplies etc.. But, for some reason I have made myself a living and have a home and two sons that respect law and order and are educated. Can you please tell me why a black cannot do the same? I can. Because they are told from the first day by adults whites are bad. So from day one whites owe them everything. Hell why work or earn, just take it from the white person. Have you ever thanked God that the whites have not decided enough is enough? You may want to thank God the whites are still civilized. But, please always remember you can only poke a sleeping dog so many times before it wakes up and bites you.
Well I applaud you for the ability to adapt and overcome. Did you know that there are many blacks that come out of a poor environment to do the same that you have done and greater. You are not an anomaly and don't for one second believe that you are. Did you have your father around? This makes a huge difference you know. Different people do different things so don't adopt the I did it why can't you mentality. There are also whites that grow up with a mother and father in a well-to -do home and they end up in prison for criminal activities. Whatever is said in here is not written in stone for everyone so don't take anything as a rule ok.
Tired Of Ghettos

Barnesville, OH

#18 Oct 17, 2007
Gspan wrote:
<quoted text>Well I applaud you for the ability to adapt and overcome. Did you know that there are many blacks that come out of a poor environment to do the same that you have done and greater. You are not an anomaly and don't for one second believe that you are. Did you have your father around? This makes a huge difference you know. Different people do different things so don't adopt the I did it why can't you mentality. There are also whites that grow up with a mother and father in a well-to -do home and they end up in prison for criminal activities. Whatever is said in here is not written in stone for everyone so don't take anything as a rule ok.
Let me ask you this. If one of these black thugs were sit down in the middle of the woods with no food or water and no communication. Do you think the thug would sit there and complain or try to survive? The reason they do not try in society is because of choice. The choice they make is to take advantage of people through crime. It doesn't matter what the situation is. There are pleanty of avenues to make good. Some decide to take the easy road of crime. I have no sympathy for them.
Gspan

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#19 Oct 17, 2007
Tired Of Ghettos wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you this. If one of these black thugs were sit down in the middle of the woods with no food or water and no communication. Do you think the thug would sit there and complain or try to survive? The reason they do not try in society is because of choice. The choice they make is to take advantage of people through crime. It doesn't matter what the situation is. There are pleanty of avenues to make good. Some decide to take the easy road of crime. I have no sympathy for them.
Well it right back to what I said in the first place. There are good and bad in the black community. In the same way there is good and bad in the white community. There are white thugs too you know. I don't see you on here condemning them do I? You have a biased way to single out the bad in one race and turning a blind eye to what is taking place in your own back yard. Don't you see this as hypocritical?
Avatar

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#20 Oct 17, 2007
Tired Of Ghettos wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you this. If one of these black thugs were sit down in the middle of the woods with no food or water and no communication. Do you think the thug would sit there and complain or try to survive? The reason they do not try in society is because of choice. The choice they make is to take advantage of people through crime. It doesn't matter what the situation is. There are pleanty of avenues to make good. Some decide to take the easy road of crime. I have no sympathy for them.
Well Gspan did say that there are blacks that have overcome the ghetto. Why is it that you still won't acknowledge them. You choose to hang an entire race on the bad on their behalf. It's the same thing when blacks only look at the KKK and the AB and they think that all white peolple are that way. Can't be tired of balcks always pulling the "race card" when on the back side you do the same thing in a different way.
Tired Of Ghettos

Barnesville, OH

#21 Oct 17, 2007
Avatar wrote:
<quoted text>Well Gspan did say that there are blacks that have overcome the ghetto. Why is it that you still won't acknowledge them. You choose to hang an entire race on the bad on their behalf. It's the same thing when blacks only look at the KKK and the AB and they think that all white peolple are that way. Can't be tired of balcks always pulling the "race card" when on the back side you do the same thing in a different way.
Please show me the good black neighborhoods. The good black communities of black businesses. Please show me the blacks that go to an area after being hit by a natural disaster and giving a helping hand. You don't see that because of the jealousy they have of whites. You will not see a black church get together and go help whites who have had their towns destroyed by tornados or floods. Deep down I believe they are glad such things happen to whites. It's not just the violent blacks I speak about it is the blacks that sit idile when whites are in need. Think back about Katrina. Can you imagine whites acting that way? No you cannot because whites survive. You did however see whites by the thousands helping the blacks. You also have seen the displaced blacks go to other communities and the crime rate in those communities has increased. It's all about culture.
Michael Strambler

Chicago, IL

#22 Oct 17, 2007
Janks Morton wrote:
I reviewed your article, and I am at a point of concern as it relates to the symbiosis of the Justice Policy Institute and “Journalists” who continue to source this organization for this flawed comparison. I believe this point needs absolute clarification, and while you imply the truth lies between myself and the JPI, and you so diligently (and accurately) explain)the census data and its potential shortcomings, why did you not make one phone call to the NCES regarding the accuracy of the JPI data? If you would, please contact the NCES regarding the data for FY 2000 and you will find that NCES did not collect unduplicated 12 month headcount enrollment for African American males until FY 2001. The 603,032 number used by this organization, in its fraudulent inception was a mid-year forecast for fall enrollment ONLY (actual year end fall enrollment was 657,000) and their “study” did not include spring enrollment for 2000. And as we so readily refer constantly back to the JPI as “the source” for the cellblocks vs. classrooms data, and easily as my research and credibility is refuted by this source, why is that no one has “uncovered this story”. And you final assumption falls directly in line with fallacious postulate forwarded by this organization who massaged the data to justify an ends.
Finally your correct analysis of “the less representative the coverage of the survey, the less sure one can be of the accuracy of the estimated number. And - surprise - the Current Population Survey's lowest coverage rate is among young black men” only helps support the argument that while the census coverage may be lacking as it relates to AA Males (a popular premise that I have not seen proved or disproved by any ones research), the count still surpasses that which is incarcerated. So if they gather additional coverage is it not logical to assume the count would increase more?
Please stop dumbing us down, do more fair and accurate research, and before publishing and assuming the worst about us.
Janks Morton
Thanks for everyone's responses. You can find my response to the above comment (from the filmmaker of the film I mention in the piece) here: http://thecheckup.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/a-...

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