Jemez Pueblo wants land in Pecos Canyon

Jemez Pueblo wants land in Pecos Canyon

There are 55 comments on the KOB.com Eyewitness News 4 - New Mexico story from May 23, 2008, titled Jemez Pueblo wants land in Pecos Canyon. In it, KOB.com Eyewitness News 4 - New Mexico reports that:

The governor of Jemez Pueblo says the pueblo wants 70 acres along the Pecos River where many campsites are located.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at KOB.com Eyewitness News 4 - New Mexico.

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Since: Feb 08

Albuquerque, NM

#42 Aug 18, 2008
Daniel in Hobbs wrote:
the term "native" is very misleading..the American Indian did not originate in north america..they also "immigrated" here...by way of hunter gatherers migrating to better lands..so they are no more native than I am..they just got here first, and then failed to evolve to the level of the white devil "invaders"...consequ ently, they were swallowed up by progress...you can romanticize their plight as much as you like, but they were far from peaceful beings..they slaughtered each other on a regular basis...its time to move on..make them American citizens with all the rights that go with it...and toss these outdated treaties and soviergn nation malarky out the window..
Wow Danny, now I'm starting to understand your bias agaist Natives. You're making decisions & judgements against people without knowing all the facts.

I guess you didn't know that it took Congress to pass the Indian Citizenship Act in 1924, which says all Natives born in the US are considered US Citizens, even though the 14th Amendment says that anybody & everybody born in the US is an American citizen. Funny how that worked out.

I guess that the Founding Father's ideas are malarky too, since they based many aspects the US Constitution off of the Constitution of the Iroquois Confederacy.

Also, the Founding Fathers recognized Tribal sovereignty in the Constitution in Article I, Section 8: "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes"

The US Supreme Court also ruled that..."“The Constitution, by declaring treaties already made, as well as those to be made, to be the supreme law of the land, had adopted and sanctioned the previous treaties with the Indian nations, and consequently admits their rank among those powers who are capable of making treaties. The words ‘treaty’ and ‘nation’ are words of our own language, selected in our diplomatic and legislative proceedings, by ourselves, having each a definite and well understood meaning. We have applied them to Indians, as we have applied them to the other nations of the earth. They are applied to all in the same sense.”

So since you think that treaties & Tibal soveriegnty should be tossed out the window, should we toss out the US Constitution too and start over from scratch?

“Down in the Bayou”

Since: Apr 08

Vancleave Mississippi

#43 Aug 18, 2008
Might be a good idea....as long as every American has the same rights as the one living next door to him...no one should have more "rights" than anyone else.

Since: Feb 08

Albuquerque, NM

#44 Aug 18, 2008
And just how have those extra rights put you at a disadvantage?

Is your health & health care worse than Natives, because Natives have the worst health & healthcare in the country?

Are unemployed & unable to find a well paying job because of Natives, because the unemployment on reservations is far higher than in urban, suburban or most rural areas?

Was your school perpetually underfunded & understaffed like so many schools on the reservations, because graduation rates for Natives is greater than 50% on many reservations?

Did you get arrested & go to prison for a longer sentence than Natives since Natives are arrested & serve disproportionately longer sentences than non-natives?

Do you have an investment account where you are not able to have a full accounting to determine if you recieved all your deposits or if your dividend was the correct amount? Would you even do business with with someone that could not & would not keep track of your money?

Do you not really understand that those extra "rights" were in exchange for the land that you now live on, work at & spend your recreation time?

Do you not really understand what those treaties were for, why they exist, and how so many Natives have gotten the shaft over & over a government that hasn't fully lived up to their end of the bargain & who has a legal duty to protect those extra rights?

Tell you what, how about you go back to where-ever in Europe your family is from prior to colinization & I'll go back to where my family is from. I'll let you know when I get there & you let me know when you get there, then we'll come up with a plan for you to come back to live & work that will make everybody happy.

Since: Feb 08

Albuquerque, NM

#45 Aug 18, 2008
OK, I'm here.

“Down in the Bayou”

Since: Apr 08

Vancleave Mississippi

#46 Aug 19, 2008
Oyegi Thamu wrote:
And just how have those extra rights put you at a disadvantage?
Is your health & health care worse than Natives, because Natives have the worst health & healthcare in the country?
Are unemployed & unable to find a well paying job because of Natives, because the unemployment on reservations is far higher than in urban, suburban or most rural areas?
Was your school perpetually underfunded & understaffed like so many schools on the reservations, because graduation rates for Natives is greater than 50% on many reservations?
Did you get arrested & go to prison for a longer sentence than Natives since Natives are arrested & serve disproportionately longer sentences than non-natives?
Do you have an investment account where you are not able to have a full accounting to determine if you recieved all your deposits or if your dividend was the correct amount? Would you even do business with with someone that could not & would not keep track of your money?
Do you not really understand that those extra "rights" were in exchange for the land that you now live on, work at & spend your recreation time?
Do you not really understand what those treaties were for, why they exist, and how so many Natives have gotten the shaft over & over a government that hasn't fully lived up to their end of the bargain & who has a legal duty to protect those extra rights?
Tell you what, how about you go back to where-ever in Europe your family is from prior to colinization & I'll go back to where my family is from. I'll let you know when I get there & you let me know when you get there, then we'll come up with a plan for you to come back to live & work that will make everybody happy.
my healthcare is excellant..why?..because I work and PAY for it...never been unemployed in my life..why?..because I MOVE to where the jobs ARE!...my last High school I attented was understaffed and underfunded..inner city 86% black..so?..didn't get arrested..because..hold on for this one...I DID NOT break the law....I don't have money given to me for investments, I EARN my own money..and consequently..I manage it...the land we now call America was taken from the aborigines,, and bought from the same aborigines..they needed help way back then 200 years ago..they needed education to help them move along with progress..they chose to continue their stoneage ways..and now they are behind the power curve...they have more opportunity than any child growing up in a ghetto..yet they continually underperform..that is their choice because our government, and American people in general consider them "special" as if they are retarded..I don't believe they are any different than I..anything worth having in this life must be earned...its time they started doing it. The treaties are old and outdated, and unfair to a great majority of Americans everywhere..no American should have more "rights" or "priviledges" than any other..ever..

Since: Feb 08

Albuquerque, NM

#47 Aug 19, 2008
Daniel in Hobbs wrote:
<quoted text>
my healthcare is excellant..why?..because I work and PAY for it...never been unemployed in my life..why?..because I MOVE to where the jobs ARE!...my last High school I attented was understaffed and underfunded..inner city 86% black..so?..didn't get arrested..because..hold on for this one...I DID NOT break the law....I don't have money given to me for investments, I EARN my own money..and consequently..I manage it...the land we now call America was taken from the aborigines,, and bought from the same aborigines..they needed help way back then 200 years ago..they needed education to help them move along with progress..they chose to continue their stoneage ways..and now they are behind the power curve...they have more opportunity than any child growing up in a ghetto..yet they continually underperform..that is their choice because our government, and American people in general consider them "special" as if they are retarded..I don't believe they are any different than I..anything worth having in this life must be earned...its time they started doing it. The treaties are old and outdated, and unfair to a great majority of Americans everywhere..no American should have more "rights" or "priviledges" than any other..ever..
I think it's great that you have a job, good health, etc. You move where ever you want to, too. I'm happy for you.

You say those treaties are "old and outdated", but they still have the force of law which places the Federal government with a fiduciary responsibility to the Tribes to provide things like health care & education.

As you said, the land was taken from the Tribes and it was also bought from the Tribes. The terms of that "sale" are outlined in those treaties, which have been underfunded & mismanaged from day 1.

But just because you don't like the terms of the deal does not negate the government's responsibility to provide those and other services. Personally, I would like the government to fully fund those services. I guess we're both outa luck.

“Down in the Bayou”

Since: Apr 08

Vancleave Mississippi

#48 Aug 19, 2008
I reckon we are Oyegi...
timmychillie

Albuquerque, NM

#49 Aug 19, 2008
the good old USA still a racist country, the indigenous people will always get a raw deal no matter what.

“Down in the Bayou”

Since: Apr 08

Vancleave Mississippi

#50 Aug 19, 2008
timmychillie wrote:
the good old USA still a racist country, the indigenous people will always get a raw deal no matter what.
just who are the indigenous people?..me?..you?..the vikings?..bigfoot?..mayans?..a ztecs?
alton

Albuquerque, NM

#51 Aug 19, 2008
Daniel in Hobbs wrote:
the term "native" is very misleading..the American Indian did not originate in north america..they also "immigrated" here...by way of hunter gatherers migrating to better lands..so they are no more native than I am..they just got here first, and then failed to evolve to the level of the white devil "invaders"...consequ ently, they were swallowed up by progress...you can romanticize their plight as much as you like, but they were far from peaceful beings..they slaughtered each other on a regular basis...its time to move on..make them American citizens with all the rights that go with it...and toss these outdated treaties and soviergn nation malarky out the window..
...after reading this, I'm still LMAO!!!...Know your FACTS, before posting! LOL!
ihatenightshift

Paso Robles, CA

#52 Aug 20, 2008
""WOW...RACISM IS STILL LAIVE AFTER READING ALL YOUR COMMENTS LOOKS LIKE THE TRIBES CASINOS ARE NOT THE ISSUE HERE... LOOKS LIKE ALOT OF YOU HOLD GRUDGES AND ARE VERY RACIST AND SHOW IT IN YOUR STATEMENTS. YET ALL OF YOU CHOOSE TO LIVE IN A HIGHLY POPULATED NATIVE AMERICAN STATE. IF YOUDONT LIKE IT JUST PACK YOUR BAGS AND MOVE BACK TO ENGLAND AND SPAIN WHERE U DONT HAVE TO DEAL WITH NATIVE AMERICANS. NO ONE IS MAKING YOU STAY HERE. AND YES IT WAS THEIR LANDS BEFORE THE SPANICH CAME OVER. BOTTOM LINE IS WEATHER U LIKE IT OR NOT THEY DO CONTROLL THE NEW MEXICO ECONIMY AND THERE IS NOTHING U CAN DO TO STOP IT SO YOU EITHER LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT OR PACK YOUR BAGS AND GET THE H **** OUT!!!! SOUNDS LIKE ALOT OF YOU ARE JUST JELIOUS CAUSE THE US GOVERNMENT HAS TO DO ALOT OF WHAT IT DOES CAUSE IT KNOWS IT HAS DONE WRONG WHEN IT TOOK OVER THE AREA. ALOT OF YOU CAN GO AND TYPE COMMENTS YET NONE OF YOUWILL SIGN YOUR REAL FIRST AND LAST NAMES AND CITIES TYPICOL AMERICANS SCARED TO STAND UP AND SPEAK OUT GO AMERICA RIGHT? ""

piss off cheryl and go drink more of your firewater and ruin your kidneys and liver more

“Down in the Bayou”

Since: Apr 08

Vancleave Mississippi

#53 Aug 20, 2008
alton wrote:
<quoted text>
...after reading this, I'm still LMAO!!!...Know your FACTS, before posting! LOL!
glad you got a good chuckle...now what facts do I need to know?

“JUST CALL ME QUIRKY..”

Since: May 08

Burque'

#54 Aug 20, 2008
Daniel in Hobbs wrote:
<quoted text>
glad you got a good chuckle...now what facts do I need to know?
Well Mr Presidente, the Indians were here in NM first until the Spaniards came and turned them into slaves. I know because my ancestry goes back, way back and I have Genealogy records to support that. Just a little FYI. You're never too old to learn something new ey!(:

“Down in the Bayou”

Since: Apr 08

Vancleave Mississippi

#55 Aug 20, 2008
Molly 1 wrote:
<quoted text> Well Mr Presidente, the Indians were here in NM first until the Spaniards came and turned them into slaves. I know because my ancestry goes back, way back and I have Genealogy records to support that. Just a little FYI. You're never too old to learn something new ey!(:
good morning Molly...well duh..I never disputed the fact the indians got here before the spaniards...I however did expalin earlier..that the north american indians..did not originate in north america..they migrated here from elswhere..consequently..they are not really "native" now are they?

“JUST CALL ME QUIRKY..”

Since: May 08

Burque'

#56 Aug 20, 2008
Daniel in Hobbs wrote:
<quoted text>
good morning Molly...well duh..I never disputed the fact the indians got here before the spaniards...I however did expalin earlier..that the north american indians..did not originate in north america..they migrated here from elswhere..consequently..they are not really "native" now are they?
TOUCHE!

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