Claiming Macedonia

Claiming Macedonia

There are 719 comments on the www.macedoniahellenicland.eu story from Dec 6, 2009, titled Claiming Macedonia. In it, www.macedoniahellenicland.eu reports that:

When I was thirteen years old I asked my grandfather Constantine why he had joined the Greek andartes (freedom fighters) in 1904 and fought for four years in Macedonia against the armed Slavic bands (komitadjides, committee men) of the clandestine Bulgarian Komitet "Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization" (IMRO, Vatreshna Makedonska Revolutionna Organizadja).

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.macedoniahellenicland.eu.

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United Macedonians

Tübingen, Germany

#1 Dec 6, 2009
"Claiming Macedonia" : The Struggle for the Heritage, Territory and Name of the Historic Hellenic Land, 1862-2004.

By : George C. Papavizas
Puplised by: McFarland & Company, Inc.,
Publishers Jefferson, North Carolina, and London

When I was thirteen years old I asked my grandfather Constantine why he had joined the Greek andartes (freedom fighters) in 1904 and fought for four years in Macedonia against the armed Slavic bands (komitadjides, committee men) of the clandestine Bulgarian Komitet "Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization" (IMRO, Vatreshna Makedonska Revolutionna Organizadja). Still under the Ottomans in the early 1900s, western Macedonia and Krimini, the small village with its four hundred Greek-speaking inhabitants where I was born, were in the forefront of the so-called Mace­donian Struggle (Makedonikos Agonas that lasted four years. Looking at me straight in the eyes for a long time in silence, twirling his long moustache, his sixty-year-old weather-beaten face furrowed in deep pain because of the distortion of historical facts on Macedonia emanating from the Slavic north, he said softly with tears in his eyes: "To make certain that after the Turks, our Macedonia remains Hellenic and my children and grandchildren enjoy freedom as Hellinomakedones" (Greek Macedonians).

Always with a permanent genteel expression evincing compassion and understanding, Kotas, as he was known among his friends and relatives, was a man of genuine affability and modest demeanor, underlined by a powerful mix of genuine Hellenic Macedonian values and an unusually strong commitment to family and the Greek Orthodox Church. Represent­ing an exclusive group of brave men with a tenacious belief in Macedon­ian Hellenism, Kotas, my hero grandfather, had no bigotry, hate, or chauvinism in his heart. What, then, motivated the prudent and peaceful man to become a guerrilla fighter for Macedonian Hellenism when even the official Greek government kept a cautious and ambivalent approach to the Macedonian problem and a safe distance from the Macedonian Strug­gle in the early years? Only an intense, innate passion for Macedonian Hel­lenism's fate and a distaste for history's distortion could incite him to leave his family for four years for the undeclared vicious guerrilla fight against the Turks and Bulgarians. He died of pneumonia at sixty, leaving behind an deep feeling of patriotism for all and an indelible, life-long Hellenic Macedonian legacy that has had a major impact on me, his first grandson.

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United Macedonians

Tübingen, Germany

#2 Dec 6, 2009
Sixty years later I was at my son's house for Thanksgiving dinner. Before I sat down, my eight-year-old grandson, Aidan, ran to me and bran­dished the Scholastic Atlas of the World, published by Miles Kelly Publish­ing Ltd. in Great Bardfield, Essex. He proudly demonstrated his geography skills by naming several countries around the world without reading the names, leaving his best for the end, the map of Greece. He looked at it for a few seconds, placed his finger on the word "Macedonia," looked at me with his intelligent blue eyes, and said: "Here, Papou [Grandfather]; I know where Macedonia is, where you were born." Suddenly, he looked at me again and said, disappointed, "But -you told me you were born in Macedonia, Greece."

I was not surprised that the word "Macedonia" was not on the Hel­lenic Macedonia, but on a small country beyond Greece's northern fron­tier. It was not the first time that my Macedonia, the only one that existed when I was born, was not shown on the map. The publisher did not bother to place the word "Macedonia" on Hellenic Macedonia, which occupies 75 percent of King Philip's historic Macedonia. I. was at a loss how to explain to my grandson why Hellenic Macedonia, the beautiful Hellenic province engulfing the Thermaic Gulf from where the greatest military endeavor was launched to conquer Asia and Egypt three and a half centuries before Christ, was not shown on the map.

Not underestimating Aidan's intelligence and his precociously keen interest in history and geography, I attempted to discuss with him the bare elements of the Macedonian issue and how and why it has affected relations among several Balkan and non-Balkan countries for more than a century. He quickly comprehended my short story on Macedonia, the historic Hel­lenic Macedonia. But because I have learned all my life to attribute the writ­ten word with more weight than the spoken one (verba volant, scripta manent), an authoritativeness that remains on paper for ever, I decided there and then to write about a plundered legacy; a disputed identity; how the international community (diplomats, politicians, news media, and rep­resentatives of non-governmental organizations [NGOs]) has been ensnared in clever political-historical inaccuracies, emanated or broadcast from cap­itals behind the Iron Curtain in the past, from free capitals north of the Greek frontier now; and how Greece's northern neighbors have been striving to convince the world to recognize a small breakaway republic with a name that belongs to Hellenic Macedonia and to my grandchildren's Macedonian legacy.

http://www.macedoniahellenicland.eu/content/v...

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United Macedonians

Tübingen, Germany

#3 Dec 6, 2009
Who was Captain Kottas?

Captain Kottas Museum, Florina, Macedonia

http://www.macedonianmuseums.gr/History_And_W...

The village of Kottas is along the Florina-Kristallopigi National road, which is the main road link between Greece and Albania. This village was the home of the local Slav-speaking Macedonian Fighter, Captain Kottas, who fought against the Bulgarian Comitadji and kept the Greek cause alive until Pavlos Melas and the other Greek chiefs came to Macedonia.

The Ministry of Macedonia and Thrace made provision for the Kottas family home to be converted into a museum, and it was opened by the President of the Republic late in 1995. It operates with the help of the society ‘Friends of the Museum of the Macedonian Struggle’ and Co-operating Women’s Societies.

On the ground floor there is a display of three complete outfits belonging to the Kottas family, as well as a few domestic utensils and tools. Two firearms dating from the time of the Macedonian Struggle are exhibited on the first floor, and photographs of Macedonian Fighters from the Florina area.

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United Macedonians

Tübingen, Germany

#4 Dec 6, 2009
"Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls:
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine,'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him
And makes me poor indeed."
William Shakespeare, "Othello", Act 3

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Informed Reader

Skopje, Macedonia

#6 Dec 7, 2009
Hellinomakedones (Greek Macedonians). Not simply Macedonians (and therefore Greek) or Greeks (which includes Macedonia).

It seems that the mans Grandfather could make a distinction btween Greco-Macedonians and Slavo-Macedonians. Fighting in Macedonia so that his Macedonia remained Greek.

And yet his Grandfather was a Slavo-Macedonian who hated Bulgarians, fighting on the side of the Greeks who he beleived would further his cause. Macedonian was his first language, not Greek (the modern accepted Macedonian rather than the ancient version which was a Greek dialect).

A true hero and a true patriot, who encapsulates the often miasmatic structure of balkan society.

His last words before hanging were "Zhivja Gritsja. Slovoda ili smrt!" ("Long Live Greece, Freedom or Death!".

Now if that isn't screwy, then I don't know what is!
PAOKARA

Erétria, Greece

#7 Dec 7, 2009
Informed Reader wrote:
Hellinomakedones (Greek Macedonians). Not simply Macedonians (and therefore Greek) or Greeks (which includes Macedonia).
It seems that the mans Grandfather could make a distinction btween Greco-Macedonians and Slavo-Macedonians. Fighting in Macedonia so that his Macedonia remained Greek.
And yet his Grandfather was a Slavo-Macedonian who hated Bulgarians, fighting on the side of the Greeks who he beleived would further his cause. Macedonian was his first language, not Greek (the modern accepted Macedonian rather than the ancient version which was a Greek dialect).
A true hero and a true patriot, who encapsulates the often miasmatic structure of balkan society.
His last words before hanging were "Zhivja Gritsja. Slovoda ili smrt!" ("Long Live Greece, Freedom or Death!".
Now if that isn't screwy, then I don't know what is!
hey Englishman amigo
you an IT, few months and go from fyrom how come you know so many things about the area ?
Informed Reader

Skopje, Macedonia

#8 Dec 7, 2009
PAOKARA wrote:
<quoted text>
hey Englishman amigo
you an IT, few months and go from fyrom how come you know so many things about the area ?
Welshman amigo,

I can read, I am not too selective in my sources (being in English is the only real criteria) and have lots of free time (i try to avoid work, it brings me out in a rash).

That coupled with pretty much unlimited internet access and the masses of material available, all lets me make my own conclusions and form opinions based upon what I see and read.

:-)
skopianofagos

Athens, Greece

#9 Dec 7, 2009
Informed Reader wrote:
Hellinomakedones (Greek Macedonians). Not simply Macedonians (and therefore Greek) or Greeks (which includes Macedonia).
It seems that the mans Grandfather could make a distinction btween Greco-Macedonians and Slavo-Macedonians. Fighting in Macedonia so that his Macedonia remained Greek.
And yet his Grandfather was a Slavo-Macedonian who hated Bulgarians, fighting on the side of the Greeks who he beleived would further his cause. Macedonian was his first language, not Greek (the modern accepted Macedonian rather than the ancient version which was a Greek dialect).
A true hero and a true patriot, who encapsulates the often miasmatic structure of balkan society.
His last words before hanging were "Zhivja Gritsja. Slovoda ili smrt!" ("Long Live Greece, Freedom or Death!".
Now if that isn't screwy, then I don't know what is!
Correction: The so called Macedonian language is nothing more than BULGARIAN. When a FYROMIAN visits Bulgaria he understands what the Bulgarians are saying and they understand his so called Macedonian language. Conclusion: FYROM is nothing more than a province of Bulgaria and the so called Macedonians who live there are nothing more than Bulgarians!
Just wait for the VETO that will bring civil war in your fake country!
tic toc tic toc.
Informed Reader

Skopje, Macedonia

#10 Dec 7, 2009
PAOKARA wrote:
<quoted text>
hey Englishman amigo
you an IT, few months and go from fyrom how come you know so many things about the area ?
I actually happened across topix by googling "Macedonia news" which I now realise was a search, packed full of naivity.

Going back to our mutual friend "Kottas", how much was he fighting against Bulgaria rather than for Greece?

I mean, in this region, fighting against the Bulgar doesn't automatically make you Greek, it could make you equally Serb.

If by some deranged quirk of fate, I find myself fighting for RoM against Greece, I could be a hero of RoM without actually being a RoM hero.

Sadly, finding sources that are not Greek bias (which in itself is pretty unusual) means that any non-conformist conclusions I make are pretty worthless without anything to support my conclusions.

A Slavic-speaking, anti-Bulgar, Greek. If he was alive today he'd not be a hero, he'd be a freak!
Informed Reader

Skopje, Macedonia

#11 Dec 7, 2009
skopianofagos wrote:
<quoted text>Correction: The so called Macedonian language is nothing more than BULGARIAN. When a FYROMIAN visits Bulgaria he understands what the Bulgarians are saying and they understand his so called Macedonian language. Conclusion: FYROM is nothing more than a province of Bulgaria and the so called Macedonians who live there are nothing more than Bulgarians!
Just wait for the VETO that will bring civil war in your fake country!
tic toc tic toc.
To correct your incorrect correction (don't say that out loud, it causes headache).

Macedonian is a language recognised globally. This means it is recognised accedemically as well as politically by the people of the globe (which includes Greece). You might not like it, but as of today it is a fact, and therefore undisputable.

Pirin is a province of Bulgaria, West Macedonia is a province of Greece, Cornwall is a province in England. And?

When a Macedonian (Slavo-Macedonian) goes to Bulgaria their languages are mutually intelligable. So are the Serbian and Croatian languages I beleive. Does that make the Serb actually a Croat? One of the two languages should be erradicated, one of the peoples not actually what they think they are? Good luck with that.

Conclusion: Read more, don't be quite such a narrow minded nationalist, think before you speak and check your facts.
entatiki

Athens, Greece

#12 Dec 7, 2009
Informed Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
To correct your incorrect correction (don't say that out loud, it causes headache).
Macedonian is a language recognised globally. This means it is recognised accedemically as well as politically by the people of the globe (which includes Greece). You might not like it, but as of today it is a fact, and therefore undisputable.
Pirin is a province of Bulgaria, West Macedonia is a province of Greece, Cornwall is a province in England. And?
When a Macedonian (Slavo-Macedonian) goes to Bulgaria their languages are mutually intelligable. So are the Serbian and Croatian languages I beleive. Does that make the Serb actually a Croat? One of the two languages should be erradicated, one of the peoples not actually what they think they are? Good luck with that.
Conclusion: Read more, don't be quite such a narrow minded nationalist, think before you speak and check your facts.
Since you brought it up I have no idea if a Croat can understand a Serb but I found this:

Croatian linguist Miro Ka&#269;i&#263; has given the following general overview of differences between the Croatian and Serbian languages. This blueprint can be, by extension, slightly modified to include Bosnian.

"In this book I have tried to present some of the fundamental delusions and distortions which have brought about the misconception, which is still present in world linguistics today, that Croatian and Serbian are one language. I have shown that Croatian and Serbian differ to a greater or lesser degree on all levels. These differences exist on the following ones:

1. The level of literary language. There are two traditions of writing which are temporally and spatially separated due to the different historical, cultural and literary development of the two nations.
2. The level of standard language. The two traditions of linguistic codification are completely disparate. The period of Croato-Serbian normative convergence, from the time of Croatian "Vukovians" to the imposed unification of these two languages in the former Yugoslavia, is only an interval in the development of the Croatian linguistic norm. As a turning point, this period was atypical with respect to three centuries of this development.
3. The level of genetic relatedness. Croatian is based on three macro dialects, while Serbian is dominated by two macro dialects. The interference between three Croatian dialects which provided the basis for Croatian writing and literature has uninterruptedly existed for centuries as a formative force in the codification of standard Croatian.
4. The typological level. Differences exist on all levels of the linguistic system: phonetic/phonological, accentual, morphological, word-formation, syntactic, semantic-pragmatic and lexical. Linguistic systems which differ on all these levels cannot be one language."

Croatian and Serbian: Delusions and Distortions, Miro Ka&#269;i&#263;, Novi Most, Zagreb 1997
entatiki

Athens, Greece

#13 Dec 7, 2009
sorry,the author is Miro Kacic
BOREC

Canberra, Australia

#14 Dec 7, 2009
entatiki wrote:
sorry,the author is Miro Kacic
...as the orthodox in India believe ; nor are they laws which
were ever enacted and enforced as were the laws of Solon.
The so-called Code of Manu or Manava-dharma-sastra, as
Prof. Max Miiller has shewn, has its source in the Sutras,
and is at the least post-Vaidic. The Sutras themselves belong
to the end of the Yaidic period, and are but metrical versions
of the prose treatises of the Brahma?zas, which are themselves
studies of the Vaidic hymns. Thus as the Code of Manu says,
II. 6, "the roots of the Law are the whole Veda."
http://www.archive.org/stream/journalofphilol...

SO WAS "Yaidic period" and "Vaidic hymns" before you uneducated Ethiopian slaves become "ancient and sophisticated".
el greko

Xánthi, Greece

#15 Dec 7, 2009
AAHAHAHAHAHAH ROBERT AKKA BLOWREC,I BET U DIDNT MASTURBATE YET.THATS WHY U R A LITLE CRANKY

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Its clear Macedonians had the same gods as the rest of Greeks and Alexander had famous Greek ancestors like Neoptolemus

Quote:

When he went up to Ilium, Menoetius the pilot crowned him with a golden crown; after him Chares the Athenian, coming from Sigeum, as well as certain others, BOTH GREEKS and natives, did the same.

Arrian 1a12

Greeks of Asia minor crowned Alexander with golden crowns and celebrated he came to liberate them. Very interesting.

Quote:

And, indeed, there is NO other single individual AMONG GREEKS OR BARBARIANS who achieved exploits so great or important either in regard to number or magnitude as he did. This was the reason which induced me to undertake this history, not thinking myself incompetent to make Alexander’s deeds known to men.

Arrian 1a12

It is clear from earlier that Arrian doesnt consider Macedonians as Barbarians but as we see without doubt here Alexander and Macedonians are Greeks.

Quote:

Then indeed, Alexander’s spear being broken to shivers in the conflict, he asked Aretis, one of the royal guards, whose duty it was to assist the king to mount his horse, for another spear. But this man’s spear had also been shivered while he was in the thickest of the struggle, and he was conspicuous fighting with the half of his broken spear. Showing this to Alexander, he bade him ask someone else for one. Then Demaratus, a man of Corinth, one of his personal Companions, gave him his own spear; which he had no sooner taken than seeing Mithridates, the son-in-law of Darius, riding far in front of the others, and leading with him a body of cavalry arranged like a wedge, he himself rode on in front of the others, and hitting at the face of Mithridates with his spear, struck him to the ground.

Arrian 1a15

So except Cleitus, Demaratus a Corinthian saved Alexander’s life.

Quote:

But as many of them as he took prisoners he bound in fetters and sent them away to Macedonia to till the soil, because, though they were Greeks, they were fighting against Greece on behalf of the foreigners in opposition to the decrees which the Greeks had made in their federal council. To Athens also he sent 300 suits of Persian armour to be hung up in the Acropolis as a votive offering to Athena, and ordered this inscription to be fixed over them,“Alexander, son of Philip, and ALL the Greeks except the Lacedaemonians, present this offering from the spoils taken from the foreigners inhabiting Asia.”

Arrian 1a16

We cant add much. The case is clear. The Greek mercenaries fought “on behalf of the foreigners against Greece” and in the inscription Macedonians are placed with the rest of Greeks.

Quote:

He therefore resolved to build a temple to the Olympian Zeus on the hill, and to erect an altar in it;

Arrian 1b 17
Robert

Toronto, Canada

#16 Dec 7, 2009
el greko wrote:
AAHAHAHAHAHAH ROBERT AKKA BLOWREC,I BET U DIDNT MASTURBATE YET.THATS WHY U R A LITLE CRANKY
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Its clear Macedonians had the same gods as the rest of Greeks and Alexander had famous Greek ancestors like Neoptolemus
Quote:
When he went up to Ilium, Menoetius the pilot crowned him with a golden crown; after him Chares the Athenian, coming from Sigeum, as well as certain others, BOTH GREEKS and natives, did the same.
Arrian 1a12
Greeks of Asia minor crowned Alexander with golden crowns and celebrated he came to liberate them. Very interesting.
Quote:
And, indeed, there is NO other single individual AMONG GREEKS OR BARBARIANS who achieved exploits so great or important either in regard to number or magnitude as he did. This was the reason which induced me to undertake this history, not thinking myself incompetent to make Alexander’s deeds known to men.
Arrian 1a12
It is clear from earlier that Arrian doesnt consider Macedonians as Barbarians but as we see without doubt here Alexander and Macedonians are Greeks.
Quote:
Then indeed, Alexander’s spear being broken to shivers in the conflict, he asked Aretis, one of the royal guards, whose duty it was to assist the king to mount his horse, for another spear. But this man’s spear had also been shivered while he was in the thickest of the struggle, and he was conspicuous fighting with the half of his broken spear. Showing this to Alexander, he bade him ask someone else for one. Then Demaratus, a man of Corinth, one of his personal Companions, gave him his own spear; which he had no sooner taken than seeing Mithridates, the son-in-law of Darius, riding far in front of the others, and leading with him a body of cavalry arranged like a wedge, he himself rode on in front of the others, and hitting at the face of Mithridates with his spear, struck him to the ground.
Arrian 1a15
So except Cleitus, Demaratus a Corinthian saved Alexander’s life.
Quote:
But as many of them as he took prisoners he bound in fetters and sent them away to Macedonia to till the soil, because, though they were Greeks, they were fighting against Greece on behalf of the foreigners in opposition to the decrees which the Greeks had made in their federal council. To Athens also he sent 300 suits of Persian armour to be hung up in the Acropolis as a votive offering to Athena, and ordered this inscription to be fixed over them,“Alexander, son of Philip, and ALL the Greeks except the Lacedaemonians, present this offering from the spoils taken from the foreigners inhabiting Asia.”
Arrian 1a16
We cant add much. The case is clear. The Greek mercenaries fought “on behalf of the foreigners against Greece” and in the inscription Macedonians are placed with the rest of Greeks.
Quote:
He therefore resolved to build a temple to the Olympian Zeus on the hill, and to erect an altar in it;
Arrian 1b 17
Two things:

One, don't ever confuse me with the nazi-clown Borec or his boytoy Filip! An easy way of figuring it out is to see that I am writing from Canada and he's in Australia... No Kangaroos here, mate!

Second, your post with good historical evidence about Ancient Macedonia/Greece - with Ancient Macedonia being Greek. No dispute about that. My dispute is with nationalists on both sides not listening to each other, and acting like a bunch of warmongers, and racists. All my posts call those who act like idiots, idiots!
United Macedonians

Tübingen, Germany

#18 Dec 7, 2009
Informed Reader wrote:
Hellinomakedones (Greek Macedonians). Not simply Macedonians (and therefore Greek) or Greeks (which includes Macedonia).
It seems that the mans Grandfather could make a distinction btween Greco-Macedonians and Slavo-Macedonians. Fighting in Macedonia so that his Macedonia remained Greek.
And yet his Grandfather was a Slavo-Macedonian who hated Bulgarians, fighting on the side of the Greeks who he beleived would further his cause. Macedonian was his first language, not Greek (the modern accepted Macedonian rather than the ancient version which was a Greek dialect).
A true hero and a true patriot, who encapsulates the often miasmatic structure of balkan society.
His last words before hanging were "Zhivja Gritsja. Slovoda ili smrt!" ("Long Live Greece, Freedom or Death!".
Now if that isn't screwy, then I don't know what is!
Informed reader, his language was not Macedonian he spoke a slavic idiom of Macedonia. Like a French idiom of Wales (maybe there is one?)- would that make it Welsh? Let alone _the_ Welsh? His language was a local dialect. It was called Nashi. It was/is not the same as far as I know as the FYROM language.

At least you are reading more widely, which is nice.
Informed Reader

Skopje, Macedonia

#19 Dec 7, 2009
United Macedonians wrote:
<quoted text>
Informed reader, his language was not Macedonian he spoke a slavic idiom of Macedonia. Like a French idiom of Wales (maybe there is one?)- would that make it Welsh? Let alone _the_ Welsh? His language was a local dialect. It was called Nashi. It was/is not the same as far as I know as the FYROM language.
At least you are reading more widely, which is nice.
:-)

According to the Greek, his language wasn't Macedonian but simply a slavic idiom called Nashi. That's fine, i'll search the great oracle that is WIKIPEDIA!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_dialects_...

Nashi is the local (Greek) term for what modern linguistics call Macedonian.

I know that my link is only Wiki, but it does contain info from independent academic scources (much of a defining feature within these pages), and a couple of pretty diagrams which i found to be illustrative. Obviously it wouldn't be right for me to comment on the relative merits of different academics, they are all way WAY smarter than me.

So it seems that according to academia at least, he probably spoke what you refer to as Nashi and they refer to as Macedonian.

Either way, it wasn't Greek, which makes the fact that he was a hero of Greece, somewhat odd given todays climate.
Dimitri from Athens

Piraeus, Greece

#20 Dec 7, 2009
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
Two things:
One, don't ever confuse me with the nazi-clown Borec or his boytoy Filip! An easy way of figuring it out is to see that I am writing from Canada and he's in Australia... No Kangaroos here, mate!
Second, your post with good historical evidence about Ancient Macedonia/Greece - with Ancient Macedonia being Greek. No dispute about that. My dispute is with nationalists on both sides not listening to each other, and acting like a bunch of warmongers, and racists. All my posts call those who act like idiots, idiots!
So, any proposal?

“Makedonija znaci Grcija”

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#21 Dec 7, 2009
Informed Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
To correct your incorrect correction (don't say that out loud, it causes headache).
Macedonian is a language recognised globally. This means it is recognised accedemically as well as politically by the people of the globe (which includes Greece). You might not like it, but as of today it is a fact, and therefore undisputable.
Pirin is a province of Bulgaria, West Macedonia is a province of Greece, Cornwall is a province in England. And?
When a Macedonian (Slavo-Macedonian) goes to Bulgaria their languages are mutually intelligable. So are the Serbian and Croatian languages I beleive. Does that make the Serb actually a Croat? One of the two languages should be erradicated, one of the peoples not actually what they think they are? Good luck with that.
Conclusion: Read more, don't be quite such a narrow minded nationalist, think before you speak and check your facts.
So what is wrong for them to be called Slavomacedonians and not JUST macedonians? Why is it wrong for the country to be called Slavomacedonia and not JUST Macedonia? Why should we get confused with what is macedonian when a Greek, a Bulgarian or a Slavomacedonian talk to each other? Why a not so Informed Reader would have to go to so much trouble to really comprehend what Alexander the great's nationality was and like your compatriots to even lose money and your tv credability?

Why should the Greeks have to endure with the lies of the FYROMIANS about Historical facts? Do you believe that if Macedonia is accepted as a name for FYROM anyone on the planet would care to do the search you did in order to understand who is who? Why should my newborn son have to explain to every naiv person on the Globe who Alexander and his macedonians were and why he uses the name macedonian when in fact he is Greek?
Would you be so kind to answer?
Never

Skopje, Macedonia

#22 Dec 7, 2009
Strategos wrote:
<quoted text>
So what is wrong for them to be called Slavomacedonians and not JUST macedonians? Why is it wrong for the country to be called Slavomacedonia and not JUST Macedonia? Why should we get confused with what is macedonian when a Greek, a Bulgarian or a Slavomacedonian talk to each other? Why a not so Informed Reader would have to go to so much trouble to really comprehend what Alexander the great's nationality was and like your compatriots to even lose money and your tv credability?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =2AdgCe0cf9gXX
Why should the Greeks have to endure with the lies of the FYROMIANS about Historical facts? Do you believe that if Macedonia is accepted as a name for FYROM anyone on the planet would care to do the search you did in order to understand who is who? Why should my newborn son have to explain to every naiv person on the Globe who Alexander and his macedonians were and why he uses the name macedonian when in fact he is Greek?
Would you be so kind to answer?
Only the citizens of Republic of Macedonia, in legitimate constitutional procedure, has the sovereign right to name the country. We did it 18 years ago, it is Republic of Macedonia. No other nation in the world holds the right to interfere in this procedure. So back off.

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