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“The Condemned One”

Since: Mar 08

Cosby, TN

#1 Apr 19, 2008
Out of curiosity, how many believe in the Rapture and why?

It's not mentioned by name in the Bible and wasn't even widely known until John Darby (the founder of the Plymouth Brethren) popularized it.
What passages make you believe or what gives you the feeling that it is a false teaching? Why one way or the other?

I'm not here to argue what's right or wrong according to one's beliefs, I'm just curious to know why you believe or disbelieve this particular teaching, so do not attack anyone's beliefs here, please. Religion is a touchy subject, and if you cannot discuss civilly, please refrain from participating at all.
Thank you.
sugarbabie

Cookeville, TN

#2 Apr 19, 2008
well i don't believe in the rapture due to the fact that i was not raised to believe in it, i was raised that when you die you are judged then .and then you go to heaven or to hell. sorry that is just what i believe . i don't want to augue about this subject. thank you

“The Condemned One”

Since: Mar 08

Cosby, TN

#3 Apr 19, 2008
sugarbabie wrote:
well i don't believe in the rapture due to the fact that i was not raised to believe in it, i was raised that when you die you are judged then .and then you go to heaven or to hell. sorry that is just what i believe . i don't want to augue about this subject. thank you
No need to apologize for your beliefs. I just wanted to know if and why.
Mick

Columbia, SC

#4 Apr 19, 2008
I believe in it about as much I believe in Harry Potter. Actually probably less.

Since: Mar 08

Jamestown

#5 Apr 20, 2008
I haven't studied it alot but rapture means the carrying of a person to another place or sphere of existence(this is just one meaning). Based on that, I believe in it because that would be when Christ returns and gets those that are saved. I used to believe we went to heaven or hell when we died (I was taught that as a child) but in the Bible it says the dead in Christ shall rise first. That leads me to believe that we don't go when we die. On the other hand, there have been to many cases of near death experiences that if they are what they are stated to be, mean the opposite, that we do go when we die. I really don't harp on whether we go when we die or when Christ returns because all that matters to me is that I get there sometime, be it now or later. Nonetheless, even if the dead, as we know dead, are already there, Christ still has to return for the living. Which to me would be a Rapture.

In that case, the point would be, WHEN is the Rapture? Some believe it is before the tribulation, some believe it is half way through (three and a half yrs. in), and some believe it is at the end of the tribulation. Some believe that Christ takes the saved ones and then gives those left a second chance to repent and comes back again, I personally don't believe that.

I think it will happen half way through the tribulation but that is basically what I was taught and haven't seen anything yet that tells me otherwise. One reason I believe that is, the tribulation starts with the antichrist, thus the mark of the beast. In the Bible, it says that those taking the mark can't go to heaven. Well, if they are taken at the beginning, that would mean that everyone was given a second chance to repent because the saved would already be gone. I can quote it from the Bible later, but God is going to save us during the tribulation. He isn't going to make us suffer through all of it. Those that will reject him will have enough time to do so during the first half. The world will be a miserable place to be.
Biblically Literal

Norway, SC

#6 Apr 20, 2008
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17: "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

That's the King James Version. If one believes in the inerrancy of the Bible, this would appear to describe the case in which the Rapture will occur. Jesus will come with a shout, heralded by a trumpet. The Christian dead will have their bodies reconstituted and will meet Jesus in the air, and the Christian faithful who are living will then meet them in the air also, rising to Heaven. Then the "tribulation" will happen, with the slaughter of billions and the end of the earth as it is known. Yes, it sounds incredible, and there isn't a lot of other Biblical support for this prophecy, but the rapture is detailed here by the apostle Paul.

Believe what you will believe.

Since: Mar 08

Jamestown, TN

#7 Apr 20, 2008
I pretty well agree with BL.But there is a little more scripture that can be said that deals with the rapture;1 Cor 15:51 & Rev.3:10 & Luke 21:36..Also I believe that the Christians will be called up before the tribulation and that some people will become Christians during the tribulation.I'll look up some of the verses a little latter.

“You're braver than you believe”

Since: Mar 08

Jamestown

#8 Apr 20, 2008
I believe that the Rapture will occur at the onset of the Tribulations, that it will basically be the start of the Tribulation. And, during the tribulations people that where left behind will have a choice to either embrace Christ or follow the anti Christ and suffer the plagues that the Bible speaks of.

This is a very interesting thread!

“The Condemned One”

Since: Mar 08

Cosby, TN

#9 Apr 20, 2008
Interesting indeed. Not only does it offer insight into a particular teaching, but into the human mind's process of understanding things.
tenn girl

Helenwood, TN

#10 Apr 20, 2008
yes, I agree with biblically literal. I beleive the rapture will occur just before the tribulation. After the saved are gone, then the antichrist will arise to deceive the world. We need to watch for jesus at any moment because the bible says he will come when you do not expect it.

Since: Feb 08

Jamestown Tn

#11 Apr 20, 2008
I agree with all of you about the rapture taking place before the tribulation. I personally can't wait until he comes back, but While I am here I will do what he has asked and reach out to the hurting,broken and dying.
Humanity

Irvington, KY

#12 Apr 21, 2008
Amazed,that so many hold to a 19th century fictional theory. No one from the 1st century - 19th ever mentioned endtimes or last days. Not even the "Apostolic Fathers" (sc-2nd to 3rd Cent writers) ever addressed. The "rapture or last days" lies, are simply money makers.You can make thousands on books, cd's, dvd's that reveal nothing. Because there is not one realtime world event that can be connected to anything in the christian bible. Your just told that it is, when in fact nothing in the "bible" has anything to do with our world.

Since: Mar 08

Jamestown, TN

#13 Apr 21, 2008
Humanity wrote:
Amazed,that so many hold to a 19th century fictional theory. No one from the 1st century - 19th ever mentioned endtimes or last days. Not even the "Apostolic Fathers" (sc-2nd to 3rd Cent writers) ever addressed. The "rapture or last days" lies, are simply money makers.You can make thousands on books, cd's, dvd's that reveal nothing. Because there is not one realtime world event that can be connected to anything in the christian bible. Your just told that it is, when in fact nothing in the "bible" has anything to do with our world.
I mean no disrespect but I "totally" disagree with you.Historians have showed that many of the events portrayed in the Bible has actually happened.Also the Bible spoke of civilizations in the past that many people for years thought was non-existant,have now been found.Also archaeologists have found ruins that had records stored in then that show certain things the Bible said happen did actually happen.
Help

Buffalo Valley, TN

#14 Apr 21, 2008
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17: "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

I believe that these scriptures as well as many others point to the second coming of the Lord and the Rapture. However I do not believe that our souls have to wait for the second coming. The Word says that once absent from the body our souls will be present with the Lord. When we die our souls go to heaven and our bodies remain on earth. At the Second coming of the Lord our bodies will rise and be transformed in to new and perfect bodies and reunited with the soul to live forever in the presents of the Lord. Those who are still alive will rise to meet the Lord in the sky. They too will be given a perfect body free from sorry and pain. As for when the rapture takes place I believe it will be after most of the tribulation has taken place. I believe that the Anti Christ will take over and there will be three years of peace, then he will turn against Israel and there will be war and famine and major poverty. These three years will be man made tribulation or in other words wars that man started (granted God is still in charge) and famine and poverty that man caused. IN about the sixth year Jesus will return and take all of His children home.(rapture) Then He will be began to throw out the plagues mentioned in Revelations and destroy all evil from the earth. Then He will make a new Heaven and new earth for His children.
Humanity

Irvington, KY

#15 Apr 21, 2008
Green Hornet wrote:
<quoted text>
I mean no disrespect but I "totally" disagree with you.Historians have showed that many of the events portrayed in the Bible has actually happened.Also the Bible spoke of civilizations in the past that many people for years thought was non-existant,have now been found.Also archaeologists have found ruins that had records stored in then that show certain things the Bible said happen did actually happen.
No desrespect taken, who are these historians? what current world event(s) can be attributed to biblical prophecy?
Thessalonians, as all other epistles do not address people living today.
Unless you are in the 1st century in Thessalonica, it words to not apply to you.
Just as the words of "Revelation" is to the seven churches of Asia, not current day Americans.

Since: Mar 08

Jamestown, TN

#16 Apr 21, 2008
Humanity wrote:
<quoted text>
No desrespect taken, who are these historians? what current world event(s) can be attributed to biblical prophecy?
Thessalonians, as all other epistles do not address people living today.
Unless you are in the 1st century in Thessalonica, it words to not apply to you.
Just as the words of "Revelation" is to the seven churches of Asia, not current day Americans.
I am not sure what you are asking.If you are talking about the 20th century and on or what.If you are talking about if the Old or New Testament has been true then that is different.Just to quote Nelson Glueck,the renowned Jewish archaeologist,wrote that "It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a biblical reference." He continued his assertion of'"the almost incredibly accurate historical memory of the Bible,and particularly so when it is fortified by archaeological fact."I will research your other part of your statement about the epistles and Thessalonians not being for us today.I know that they are very pertinent for us today.God was not just interested in the people in biblical times and cares nothing of us today.To me that would show that God is not an all loving God and cares nothing for us now.He had the books of the Bible written to help those people to help them in their daily lives and to pass it down from generation to generation so that "all" people will be ready to meet him.God is totally wise and when he had the Bible written it was to tell us how we should live and what to look for.His wisdom does not fade with the passing of time.His words are pertinent yesterday,today & forever.Otherwise he was just talking in the wind.

Since: Mar 08

Jamestown, TN

#17 Apr 21, 2008
Here is something I found interesting while doing a little research.In Isaiah 66:7,8(700 B.C.)the prophet Isaiah gives a strange prophecy:" Before she travailed,she brought forth;before her pain came,she was delivered of a man child.Who has heard such a thing?Who has seen such things?Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day?Or shall a nation be born at once?For as soon as Zion travailed,she brought forth her children."In 1922 the League of Nations gave great Britain the mandate(political authority)over Palestine.On May 14, 1948 Britain withdrew her mandate and the nation of Israel was "born in a day".I understand that there are more than 25 Bible prophecies concerning Palestine that have been literally fulfilled.Probability estimations conclude that the chances of these being accidentally fulfilled are less than one chance in 33 million.Also the Old Testament foretold of Christs coming and where he would be born and that he would die without any bones being broken.Just two of many and I am not a Biblical scholar.Far from it.
Humanity

Irvington, KY

#18 Apr 22, 2008
Green Hornet wrote:
Here is something I found interesting while doing a little research.In Isaiah 66:7,8(700 B.C.)the prophet Isaiah gives a strange prophecy:" Before she travailed,she brought forth;before her pain came,she was delivered of a man child.Who has heard such a thing?Who has seen such things?Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day?Or shall a nation be born at once?For as soon as Zion travailed,she brought forth her children."In 1922 the League of Nations gave great Britain the mandate(political authority)over Palestine.On May 14, 1948 Britain withdrew her mandate and the nation of Israel was "born in a day".I understand that there are more than 25 Bible prophecies concerning Palestine that have been literally fulfilled.Probability estimations conclude that the chances of these being accidentally fulfilled are less than one chance in 33 million.Also the Old Testament foretold of Christs coming and where he would be born and that he would die without any bones being broken.Just two of many and I am not a Biblical scholar.Far from it.
Neither am I, a scholar, just a student of history. To few the biblical writings in any other way than historical, is an injustice to those documents.
There is no such thing as a modern day prophet. Modern self proclaimed prophets take in error the text, & inject their presumptions.
However, their all without merrit, all that the biblical Jesus & his followers spoke, were fullfilled in the 1st century.
North America cannot be found in any biblical text.
The Perry Stones, Hal Lindseys, John Hagees,Tim Lahaynes are all false prophets & students of the 19th century concept: Despensationalism or Premillinalisim.
Their motives are plan, to merchandise prophecy, the first thing anyone should ask themselves about prophecy is, "why am I charged a price to gain knowledge about the endtime?".Shame on these men.
Lets see a prophet predict the next president of the U.S. or the day the Iraq invasion will end.
They can't, because they have absolutly zero divine credibility.

Since: Mar 08

Jamestown

#20 Apr 22, 2008
Humanity wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither am I, a scholar, just a student of history. To few the biblical writings in any other way than historical, is an injustice to those documents.
There is no such thing as a modern day prophet. Modern self proclaimed prophets take in error the text, & inject their presumptions.
However, their all without merrit, all that the biblical Jesus & his followers spoke, were fullfilled in the 1st century.
North America cannot be found in any biblical text.
The Perry Stones, Hal Lindseys, John Hagees,Tim Lahaynes are all false prophets & students of the 19th century concept: Despensationalism or Premillinalisim.
Their motives are plan, to merchandise prophecy, the first thing anyone should ask themselves about prophecy is, "why am I charged a price to gain knowledge about the endtime?".Shame on these men.
Lets see a prophet predict the next president of the U.S. or the day the Iraq invasion will end.
They can't, because they have absolutly zero divine credibility.
Just out of curiousity, what do you think is going to become of this world? If you believe the bible is only relevant to past history, correct me if I misunderstand you, what is our purpose? If what you state is true, then religion means absolutely nothing and how did millions come to be mislead by their religions? You apparently believe in God or a higher power to agree that the bible is past history, so does God expect nothing from us now or how do you think it all works, life and death, for those that do believe in God? If the Bible is only history for past times, what are we supposed to use as our basis for living today? That isn't something we can "just know" without something to guide us.

Since: Mar 08

Jamestown, TN

#21 Apr 22, 2008
In post 18 I cited a prediction that came true in the 20th century.Also I do not believe much in prophesey today.It had its' time in the Biblical days but not now.But I truely feel the Bible is true and appropriate for this day and age and as I said before,Gods wisdom lasts throughout eternity.

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