State Attorney and Public Defender (D...
tim

Saint Augustine, FL

#21 Jul 7, 2008
are you serious? you think you will get a better defense from a public pretender than most lawyers in private practice?? you must be a public pretender!! the PD can't do the job because they don't have enough employees. stop paying people all the money and start spreading it out then you may have some credibility. and obviously you don't know the political landscape of jacksonville...if you did, you would know that people in this city don't want good public defenders. people here don't like criminal defense attorneys. they want these criminals behind bars. this is the buckle of the bible belt baby!! again, White is old and nasty looking. he needs to retire. he's been there too long and lived on the government tit for more than 30 years! see ya Bill White!!!!
Squid Shark

Herndon, VA

#22 Jul 7, 2008
tim wrote:
are you serious? you think you will get a better defense from a public pretender than most lawyers in private practice?? you must be a public pretender!! the PD can't do the job because they don't have enough employees. stop paying people all the money and start spreading it out then you may have some credibility. and obviously you don't know the political landscape of jacksonville...if you did, you would know that people in this city don't want good public defenders. people here don't like criminal defense attorneys. they want these criminals behind bars. this is the buckle of the bible belt baby!! again, White is old and nasty looking. he needs to retire. he's been there too long and lived on the government tit for more than 30 years! see ya Bill White!!!!
Well he is old and Nasty Looking, that must be a good reason.

I am not a PD, I am not even a lawyer, but my job brings me into contact with the legal community on a regular basis. I will tell you that All Chpperfield, Pat McGuinness, Ann Fennel, and Lous Buzzel are some of the finest defense attorneys in the city.

You can lower the wages and hire all the attorneys in the world, that does not make up for experienced competent attorneys. It just gives you the State Attorneys office where attorney's who have less than 6 months of experience are prosecuting FELONY cases. The fact that criminals are not behind bars is not the fault of the defense attorneys, it is because the SA office is understaffed and inexperienced. Everyone deserves a competent defense, everyone.

Most of the senior attorneys have had jobs on the outside at good firms, they left and came back because they want to work for Bill White, in fact several of them were listed in the Top 100 defense attorneys in FL this year. Watch a movie like "Murder on a Sunday Morning" and tell me that the Duval Public Defenders are incompitent.

You are still dodging the issue. You are projecting an Obama complex onto Matt Shirk, the Wrong Change, just for changes sake. No matter how unqualified he is.

Respectfully,
The Squid
tim

Saint Augustine, FL

#23 Jul 8, 2008
first of all you are completely inaccurate with your facts...like most liberals you tell half truths. Pat McGuinness, Ann Finnell and Louis Buzzel have been at the PD's office their entire career. again, life long on the government tit. Al Chipperfield worked a BRIEF period of time in private practice and then went back to the PD. The REASON they want to work for White is because they enjoy wonderful salaries at OUR expense, another liberal concept. NOT ONE of those lawyers are listed in the top 100 lawyers in florida...again, another LIE. Get your facts straight squid. No one is dodging any questions here. Matt Shirk is no less as qualified as Bill White was when he became Chief Assistant in 1976 after only being out of law school for 2 years. He claims to have ran the office since 1976 and hired every employee since, yet he claims that Shirk with almost 9 years experience can't do the same job? Come on. Granted, White may have been there 35 years, but that doesn't entitle him to keep the job. in fact, given our criminal justice system today, that fact alone tells us he needs to go! it's time for a CHANGE in our criminal justice system. It's time for someone with fresh ideas that wants to make changes. Not someone that is happy with the status quo.

and the Obama issue? Obama is WRONG for America. I think that's where you and I agree. However, your boy Bill apparently loves Obama. So much, that he decided to give him $500 when he is involved in his own campaign. Smart move Bill...good way to loose some votes. By the way, just google bill white contributions to Obama and it will pop right up.

Since: May 08

United States

#24 Jul 8, 2008
i always wonder wrote:
<quoted text>
No, they are not one in the same. I placed my question in the Jax FL forum but in other jurisdictions, what we here call the State Attorney others call the District Attorney and in some places, the Solictor. But for argument sake, the State Attorney is the Prosecutor and the Public Defender is the one providing criminal defense to a person who has been charged with something and this charged person cannot afford an attorney, so the courts, by law, must appoint an attorney (again, here, a Public Defender) to represent the 'client'.
So, does anyone in the Jax area know who is running for both offices here?
Angela Corey is running for State Attorney against Jay Plotkin (who is assistant to current state attorney Shorstein, no wonder so many criminals walk free). I know Angela personally, and she will bust them and press for hard time. I am not sure who is running for public defender.
Jesse

Saint Augustine, FL

#25 Jul 8, 2008
tim, right on man. this is a no brainer. we don't need people in our govt offices for 35 years. time for Bill White to retire. I happened to be listening to AM 1460 yesterday morning and Matt Shirk was on for the whole drive-time hour (8 to 9). He has a number of great points. Did you know that salaries in that office have gone up 20%??? I googled Bill White and found a couple of articles where he discussed the budget. He told the Daily Record last month that the last three years he's operated on a negative budget. It UNCONSCIONABLE that a public servant would increase salaries by any % knowing you are getting less money. He said to channel 4 this month that he had to let employees go and not hire new ones. Well I wonder why. Increase salaries when you don't have the money, then that's exactly what you are going to get.

I can tell you this, if Bill White gave Obama any money, he lost my vote no matter what. period.
Jesse

Saint Augustine, FL

#26 Jul 8, 2008
Riverjames wrote:
<quoted text>Angela Corey is running for State Attorney against Jay Plotkin (who is assistant to current state attorney Shorstein, no wonder so many criminals walk free). I know Angela personally, and she will bust them and press for hard time. I am not sure who is running for public defender.
Angela is awesome! she will rock up the system like we need! we need someone with a backbone in the State Attorney's office! Time to move the old regime out and in with the new!!!
Squid Shark

United States

#27 Jul 8, 2008
Tim,
First of all, I am not a liberal, I thought we already covered this.

Second, you are correct the senior attorneys were not in the Super Lawyers this year, Bill White was though, Matt Shirk was not. However, Louis Buzzel and Al Chipperfield did have good paying jobs before they came to the PD's office, Mr. Chipperfield did a pro bono case and became inspired to leave his high paying job to work for the PD's office. Clearly his salary was not to exorbitant because he went to Pajic and Pajic (one of the best firms in the city) to pay for his kids to go to school. Then he took a large pay cut to come back to the PD's office. All of the senior attorneys at the PD's office could be making more money on the outside, but they stay because they want to work there and, yes, because Mr White keeps their wages resonably competitive as do most of the best PD and SA offices in the state, Republican and Democrat.

As for the experience issue, Bill White had the highly respected Lou Frost to mentor him during his time as Chief Assistant. Who will be there to babysit Shirk, none of the Senior Attorney's, why would they want to work for someone who is 1/10 of the lawyer that they are? I sure wouldn't.

Also, as I said before, Mr Whites support for Obama in no way reflects on his duties as PD, even if they did, it would not be enough to erase the glaring deficit in experience and quality between the two candidates.

I am sure if Mr. Shirk did not have to pay all his back taxes first, he would have money to donate to Sen McCain.
tim

Jacksonville, FL

#28 Jul 8, 2008
it's very easy to say you are not a liberal...but your comments on this board suggest otherwise. your points have no merit. When you have an age difference between two candidates, you will have idiots such as yourself that will focus on the years of experience more one has over the other. experience matters to a very small extent. what matters is what plan or plans the candidates have for the office. You are going to have to give us a hell of a lot more than just Bill White has been there 35 years, is qualified to try a death case, and has the support of senior attorneys. to me any all the other voters, that doesn't mean squat. So, tell us, what has your candidate done to improve that office in the last 3 years he's been in office (because he's only been the big cheese for 3)? what are his plans for the next 4 years. because if it's just status quo, then shut your mouth and move on to another blog. Matt Shirk has been talking about changing things and trying to make improvements. All you have done is talk about how senior attorney's like Bill White. Sorry, but that's not going to cut it here or with anybody else in this city that votes.

You have mentioned the tax issue twice. I presume you are talking about the real estate taxes on his second home that has multiple owners. Sounds to me like an investment property, which means there could be many reasons it hasn't been paid (like maybe the other owners didn't pony up their share).
Squid Shark

United States

#29 Jul 9, 2008
Tim,
I have said nothing that pegs me as a liberal, but you sure as hell continue to sound like an Obama supporter (I want change because...well its change!). Shirks ideas either have no basis in reality: ie "I will drop non-indigent clients even though I dont have any say in their assignment to my office". They are shortsighted: i.e. "I will hire more attorneys and slash senior salaries even though I have no plans to replace the senior attorneys. Or they have nothing to do with his office: i.e. faith based initiatives for the office which is not even close to the responsibility of the PD.

I wont shut my mouth. Matt Shirk has no ideas, and no qualifications. Bill White runs one of the best PD offices in the state, probably THE best.

I see through you now. You dont care about Mr. Shirk's gross lack of experience because you dont actually care about indigent people getting a good defense, you would be just as happy with a bunch of inexpereinced newbies bumbling their way through trials, while Mr Shirk rolls over for his mentor, Ms. Corey, on every plea deal. Of course when a murder case comes up as it will in Jacksonville, the PD's office will just shrug it's shoulder's since there is no one death-penalty qualified in the office. That is all well and good, but some people in this world agree with Gideon v. Wainwright that everyone deserves a real defense.
tim

Jacksonville, FL

#30 Jul 9, 2008
this is a HUGE problem for me and many many other conservative minded voters (Dem and Rep) in this city. I hope this gets out to all conservatives.
William White
Public Defender
State of Florida
Updated
Q1/2008
Barack Obama
$500
Neptune Beach FL
Squid Shark

United States

#31 Jul 9, 2008
tim wrote:
this is a HUGE problem for me and many many other conservative minded voters (Dem and Rep) in this city. I hope this gets out to all conservatives.
William White
Public Defender
State of Florida
Updated
Q1/2008
Barack Obama
$500
Neptune Beach FL
He is indeed a democrat, this still has nothing to do with his ability to exercise his duties as public defender.

Why has Mr. Shirk not given to the McCain campaign, or any statewide campaign for that matter?

Since: Jan 08

Washington, DC

#32 Jul 9, 2008
Sam wrote:
State Attorney's office: Jay Plotkin v. Angela Corey
Jay is the old guard, has a record of establishing meaningful plans and programs to prevent crime, and Angela is a discredited ex-State Attorney who is known for overly aggressive tactics.
On the Public Defender side, it's incumbent Bill White v. Matt Shirk.
Bill has a life long history or passionately defending the indigent and Matt is a young newcomer who has never really said why he wants o become the public defender. Angela supports Matt - not a good idea to have the State and the Defense be of the same mind.
Vote for Jay and Bill if you're fair minded, and Angela and Matt if you're a mean spirited fool who thinks jail is the only answer.
Congrats, you've just made up this liberal-hater's mind on who to vote for: Angela and Matt.
Squid Shark

United States

#33 Jul 9, 2008
Matts job will be to defend the indigent if he is elected, he will fail miserably at that. If he does it on purpose as many of you would like for him to do, he should be disbarred.
tim

Jacksonville, FL

#34 Jul 9, 2008
Squid Shark wrote:
<quoted text>
He is indeed a democrat, this still has nothing to do with his ability to exercise his duties as public defender.
Why has Mr. Shirk not given to the McCain campaign, or any statewide campaign for that matter?
It would be foolish for ANY candidate to give money to another candidate. a very good way to loose votes. Just ask any political consultant.
Squid Shark

United States

#35 Jul 9, 2008
tim wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be foolish for ANY candidate to give money to another candidate. a very good way to loose votes. Just ask any political consultant.
It is a good way to loose votes if idiots are voting and those idiots somehow think a local office means jack crap in relation to the presidential race.
tim

Palatka, FL

#36 Jul 9, 2008
go back to jaxoutloud with the rest of your liberal conservative bashing friends!
Squid Shark

United States

#37 Jul 9, 2008
What an incisive argument. You still have addressed nothing expect the implication that Jacksonville voters are as stupid as you and will vote for an unqualified schlub like Matt Shirk.

If you see my posts on Jaxoutloud you will know I am not a liberal, but since reading is not your strong suit, I will leave it at that.
tim

Jacksonville, FL

#38 Jul 9, 2008
awe, can't win an argument so you get personal. you have avoided every question i've asked. i've articulated my position, you have resulted to personal attacks. now answer the questions...what has Bill White done since becoming Public Defender to convince me he's the man to keep the job? being able to try a homicide case, having 35 years of experience and having the support of senior attorney's is not being "qualified" for the job. He's been chief assistant since he was fresh out of law school. whoop di do. What has he done to improve the office since he's been PD. That's 3 years. What has he done to improve our justice system? the answer is NADA or you would've already answered the question. he has inflated salaries in times when he should be keeping them flat. He's bashing Judge's in the news and acting like a liberal. Matt Shirk has ideas. Since the PD doesn't try cases, I don't care if he hasn't tried a death case. He's tried over 60 trials. good enough for me. bill white hadn't tried that many cases when he became chief assistant in 1976. in fact he hadn't done much of anything since the only job he's ever had is for the government.

so, quit your personal attacks and start answering some questions. and don't give me those three things that you keep bringing up.
Squid Shark

United States

#39 Jul 9, 2008
Calling me a liberal is a personal attack in my book. As for achievements, ask around instead of regurgitating Matt Shirks talking points. Bill White is doing his job and doing it well, he is providing oustanding defense to the indigent in this city. He goes to the legislature and lobbies on behalf of both the state attorneys office and the PD's office.
His office is widely regarded as the best in the state (being the only PD in Super Lawyers is an indicator of this kind of statewide renown). The office does not win every case, but they shouldn't, if the SA did their job he should never win anything. He has been involved in the community for 30 years. He has been a strong advocate for the rights of the accused and has actively pursued cases which he can win, often saving people from false imprisonment. You are right the PD does not do alot of trials personally but he is the primary source for guidance for young lawyers.

What ideas does Shirk have? I already discussed them in a previous post, they are bunk or willful untruths.

As for Mr Shirk not being death qualified, as I said before, the PD normally does not do trials himself, but who will junior lawyers go to for guidance? All the senior attorneys will likely be gone. No one will be able to try a death penalty case, Matt Shirk just won his first Sex case recently. Some of the division chiefs have been practicing law longer than him.

He has NEVER run an office of more than 2 people.
Bill White has maintained a core of senior and talented lawyers at the largest "firm" in Jacksonville.

For judges, some of the judges are unreasonable or borderline crazy, if his layers are getting bilked by them, I would expect him to get angry. Denying reasonable offers, ex parte communications, and letting their emotions get the better of them are par for the course with some judges in this town.

Sorry for calling you stupid, I was getting tired of being called a liberal.

So quit your straw man arguments and answer some on my questions about Mr Shirk's "ideas"
Squid Shark

United States

#40 Jul 10, 2008
Slight Correction,
The two other "top" offices in the state the 15th Circuit (Palm Beach) and the 5th (Pinneas) are also on Super Lawyers.

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