Are You Sick of Hearing about Civility?

Since: Jan 11

Jacksonville, Florida

#41 Feb 3, 2011
SeaBass wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone who turns their back on this country, its heritage, and its Constitution are the enemy. Progressives (not all liberals mind you) meet that criteria.
We can agree to disagree but when those progressive ideals are forced on me and my family (Obamacare, gun control, Gov intrustion, etc.), it becomes a different situation and civility should be tossed out the door.
The 2008 elections were a mistake and most everyone knows that at this point. Smaller Government, less intrusion, more freedom....that's what I and millions of others want.
Excuse me. I was wondering if you could step out of your conservative fantasy world long enough to explain to me in more detail about those progressive ideals that are "being forced on you and your family".
The three examples you gave:
1. Health Care Reform ( I refuse to use standard issue right-wing terminology) which will prevent the all powerful heath insurance cartel from continuing to rip-off and exploit us. Greedy health insurance companies are the #1 reason you or I could conceivably lose our homes! If this is an "intrusion", intrude away!
2. Gun control. What!? Look pal, it doesn't exist. Ask Gabby Gifford's husband.
3. Government intrusion. It was THE LACK of government intrusion/regulation that brought down our economy. It was THE LACK of government intrusion/enforcement that caused the gulf oil spill.etc., etc, ad infinitum.
noshellswill

Saint Augustine, FL

#42 Feb 3, 2011
Spitshine wrote:
<quoted text>
Not here but maybe in your old home, the former USSR.
What? Why speak this silliness?

Are you so committed to lib.com statist politics and Rawlsian cultural behavior that you cannot imagine the American yeomanry directly (re)establishing the traditional republican political forms ?
noshellswill

Saint Augustine, FL

#43 Feb 3, 2011
Balthezar wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me. I was wondering if you could step out of your conservative fantasy world long enough to explain to me in more detail about those progressive ideals that are "being forced on you and your family".
The three examples you gave:
1. Health Care Reform ( I refuse to use standard issue right-wing terminology) which will prevent the all powerful heath insurance cartel from continuing to rip-off and exploit us. Greedy health insurance companies are the #1 reason you or I could conceivably lose our homes! If this is an "intrusion", intrude away!
2. Gun control. What!? Look pal, it doesn't exist. Ask Gabby Gifford's husband.
3. Government intrusion. It was THE LACK of government intrusion/regulation that brought down our economy. It was THE LACK of government intrusion/enforcement that caused the gulf oil spill.etc., etc, ad infinitum.
All know the lib.com talking points. Conservatives have their own lists and the two lists match-up one-to-one ... forever. But, I think you know this.

Here's the rub: Gub'mnt can face-down even the largest international company. Or dominate a local business tyrant. But, have you any solution for Gub'mnt over-reach when officials place themselves even beyond the (direct) reach of voting citizenry !

Yes, various projected EPA threats from the recent GLOBAL WARMING hoax is an example.

Please address this over-reach issue in a "principled" way ... don't just say "... we can make it work blabla ...good for baby-momaz ... blabla ..."
nochitswell

United States

#44 Feb 3, 2011
Balthezar wrote:
<quoted text>
The Founding Fathers were concerned about this. That's why we have a Bill Of Rights and Separation Of Powers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_m...
understand the rothchild Fx in this......;)

perhaps this video will show why these docs were drawn up

Since: Jan 11

Jacksonville, Florida

#45 Feb 3, 2011
noshellswill wrote:
<quoted text>
All know the lib.com talking points. Conservatives have their own lists and the two lists match-up one-to-one ... forever. But, I think you know this.
Here's the rub: Gub'mnt can face-down even the largest international company. Or dominate a local business tyrant. But, have you any solution for Gub'mnt over-reach when officials place themselves even beyond the (direct) reach of voting citizenry !
Yes, various projected EPA threats from the recent GLOBAL WARMING hoax is an example.
Please address this over-reach issue in a "principled" way ... don't just say "... we can make it work blabla ...good for baby-momaz ... blabla ..."
"...global warming hoax.."

These types of misleading memes make your statements lose credibility. You should avoid them.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#46 Feb 3, 2011
noshellswill wrote:
<quoted text>What? Why speak this silliness?

Are you so committed to lib.com statist politics and Rawlsian cultural behavior that you cannot imagine the American yeomanry directly (re)establishing the traditional republican political forms ?
Your style of writing is so like old school political Soviet literature.

“Just Add Obama ”

Since: Mar 08

Jacksonville Florida

#47 Feb 3, 2011
Balthezar wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me. I was wondering if you could step out of your conservative fantasy world long enough to explain to me in more detail about those progressive ideals that are "being forced on you and your family".

The three examples you gave:
1. Health Care Reform ( I refuse to use standard issue right-wing terminology) which will prevent the all powerful heath insurance cartel from continuing to rip-off and exploit us. Greedy health insurance companies are the #1 reason you or I could conceivably lose our homes! If this is an "intrusion", intrude away!

2. Gun control. What!? Look pal, it doesn't exist. Ask Gabby Gifford's husband.

3. Government intrusion. It was THE LACK of government intrusion/regulation that brought down our economy. It was THE LACK of government intrusion/enforcement that caused the gulf oil spill.etc., etc, ad infinitum.
May step into this debate and address at a high level this issues.

1. As to Health Care reform, this is not the first step of government into the arena of who should PAY for an individuals healthcare, oh which also means “What” should be paid for and how much. Before 1973 the majority of people if they chose to purchased their own heath insurance or paid their doctor directly. Then in 1793 the Federal Government (With Union Support) passed the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973 which “Required” yes “Required” employers with 25 or more employees to offer federally certified HMO options if the employer offers traditional healthcare options. Federally certified means mandated By the Government and thus in directly controlled by the Federal Government. Obamacare is just the second phase.

2. On gun control, if you define gun control as those who chose to break law not having guns then you are correct there is no gun control and by the never will gun control. If you define “Gun Control” as the Federal and Local Government restricting access, possession and use for personal protection by law abiding citizens then we do have gun control in many varying degrees across the United States.

3. Government intrusion; This one you must be very careful with since there is a HUGE difference in having the power through existing laws and regulations for the government to act. One the Government and all its bureaucracy makes it difficult if not impossible to act efficiently, since most decision makers think only on political bases. Secondly, if you have some political and legal power but desire “MORE” what is the easiest way to gain more, simple fail to use the power you have then ask for even more power to fix the problem you help cause. IMHO this theory holds true for the housing bubble “Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac” both ran by the government and using the oil spill in the gulf to restrict domestic oil production and drive up cost.

“Just Add Obama ”

Since: Mar 08

Jacksonville Florida

#48 Feb 3, 2011
SeaBass wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone who turns their back on this country, its heritage, and its Constitution are the enemy. Progressives (not all liberals mind you) meet that criteria.
We can agree to disagree but when those progressive ideals are forced on me and my family (Obamacare, gun control, Gov intrustion, etc.), it becomes a different situation and civility should be tossed out the door.
The 2008 elections were a mistake and most everyone knows that at this point. Smaller Government, less intrusion, more freedom....that's what I and millions of others want.
SeaBass, just keep that in mind “more freedom” when issues like, The Homeland Security adm., illegal drugs, drinking age, wastefully spending, required English laws, etc… Just because a republican supports it does not mean it is not intrusion or takes away freedom.

Since: Jan 08

La Quinta, CA

#49 Feb 3, 2011
Balthezar wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me. I was wondering if you could step out of your conservative fantasy world long enough to explain to me in more detail about those progressive ideals that are "being forced on you and your family".
The three examples you gave:
1. Health Care Reform ( I refuse to use standard issue right-wing terminology) which will prevent the all powerful heath insurance cartel from continuing to rip-off and exploit us. Greedy health insurance companies are the #1 reason you or I could conceivably lose our homes! If this is an "intrusion", intrude away!
2. Gun control. What!? Look pal, it doesn't exist. Ask Gabby Gifford's husband.
3. Government intrusion. It was THE LACK of government intrusion/regulation that brought down our economy. It was THE LACK of government intrusion/enforcement that caused the gulf oil spill.etc., etc, ad infinitum.
1. Healthcare: Being FORCED to purchase health insurance does nothing but prop up the greedy health insurance companies you so despise. If you dislike them so much, perhaps you'll be happier paying the fine to the IRS.

2. Gun control: Maybe we should ask Gabby Gifford's husband or her - after all, she is a pro-gun advocate. I have a better idea...lets ask the thousands of victims of home invasions, robberies, rape, murder in "gun-controlled" cities like Washington, Chicago, and NYC. Gun control is victim disarmament.

3. Government intrusion: LACK of government involvement? You mean like the Community Reinvestment Act? How about the Frank-Dodd Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act which has done exactly the opposite of what was intended? Do you consider the Patriot Act a necessary Government intrusion too?...and let's not forget that the Obama administration granted BP a regulatory exemption on an impact study. A lot like the exemptions he's granting certain companies and pals to get out of the healthcare requirements. Face it, they're lining the pockets of the very people you seem to hate.

There is NOTHING the Government can't screw up. We need less of it not more.

Since: Jan 08

La Quinta, CA

#50 Feb 3, 2011
Mr Logic in Jax wrote:
<quoted text>
SeaBass, just keep that in mind “more freedom” when issues like, The Homeland Security adm., illegal drugs, drinking age, wastefully spending, required English laws, etc… Just because a republican supports it does not mean it is not intrusion or takes away freedom.
Please don't confuse me for someone who falls for the Republican vs. Democrat paradigm. I'm equally disgusted by both parties and unequivocally see the hypocrisy of both. One party, two factions.

The Conservative vs. Liberal/Progressive angle is a bit deeper. In a nutshell, Conservatives want things to the stay the same; Progressives want massive change. I think the ideal for society is to meet somewhere in the middle with a strong emphasize on change occurring strictly within the confines of the U.S. Constitution. The reality is that both parties make changes outside of the Constitution and this is what disgusts me.

I simply want to be left alone. I want the Government out of wallet, out of my healthcare, out of my home, out of my children's lives. If I want to sit in my home smoking a doob, watching a TV I can't afford, cleaning my unregistered handgun while my military-bound but underage son drinks a Budweiser, I should be able to.

“Just Add Obama ”

Since: Mar 08

Jacksonville Florida

#51 Feb 3, 2011
SeaBass wrote:
<quoted text>
I simply want to be left alone. I want the Government out of wallet, out of my healthcare, out of my home, out of my children's lives. If I want to sit in my home smoking a doob, watching a TV I can't afford, cleaning my unregistered handgun while my military-bound but underage son drinks a Budweiser, I should be able to.
You would get no arguments from me on any of those accounts.
nochitswell

United States

#52 Feb 3, 2011
Spitshine wrote:
<quoted text>
Your style of writing is so like old school political Soviet literature.
like a good tractor novel @ the beach
nochitswell

United States

#53 Feb 3, 2011
SeaBass wrote:
<quoted text>
Please don't confuse me for someone who falls for the Republican vs. Democrat paradigm. I'm equally disgusted by both parties and unequivocally see the hypocrisy of both. One party, two factions.
The Conservative vs. Liberal/Progressive angle is a bit deeper. In a nutshell, Conservatives want things to the stay the same; Progressives want massive change. I think the ideal for society is to meet somewhere in the middle with a strong emphasize on change occurring strictly within the confines of the U.S. Constitution. The reality is that both parties make changes outside of the Constitution and this is what disgusts me.
I simply want to be left alone. I want the Government out of wallet, out of my healthcare, out of my home, out of my children's lives. If I want to sit in my home smoking a doob, watching a TV I can't afford, cleaning my unregistered handgun while my military-bound but underage son drinks a Budweiser, I should be able to.
seabass....changing the subj:
years ago i dove the channel islands....off socal
saw a 700~800lbs bsb at ship rock next to avalon about 50 feet deep she moved very slow.....QUITE A IMPRESSIVE FISH!!!
noshellswill

Saint Augustine, FL

#54 Feb 3, 2011
SeaBass wrote:
<quoted text>

I simply want to be left alone. I want the Government out of wallet, out of my healthcare, out of my home, out of my children's lives. If I want to sit in my home smoking a doob, watching a TV I can't afford, cleaning my unregistered handgun while my military-bound but underage son drinks a Budweiser, I should be able to.
You cannot do those **questionable** behaviors without affecting others. Like playing with cobras or anthrax spores. Or randomly shooting your 375-cal out the bedroom window. Less obviously, groups of folks will have statistically measurable effects on others by acting **weird**.

You **cannot** isolate your own behavior from all others. Fageddaboudit. Best to accept NSS fascist/nationalist pro-production culture as the useful, high-value cop-out between Libertarian loons and ghetto-blasta-disastaz.
noshellswill

Saint Augustine, FL

#55 Feb 3, 2011
Spitshine wrote:
<quoted text>
Your style of writing is so like old school political Soviet literature.
Strunk & White ...[[ Elements of Style ]]. Did the Soviets thieve classic American texts? And since my Jesuit rhetoric Prof was a big Flannery O'Connor fan, a bit of southron gothic.
noshellswill

Saint Augustine, FL

#56 Feb 3, 2011
nochitswell wrote:
<quoted text>
understand the rothchild Fx in this......;)
perhaps this video will show why these docs were drawn up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =rNu8XDBSn10XX
har ... har ... har

Since: Jan 08

La Quinta, CA

#57 Feb 3, 2011
nochitswell wrote:
<quoted text>
seabass....changing the subj:
years ago i dove the channel islands....off socal
saw a 700~800lbs bsb at ship rock next to avalon about 50 feet deep she moved very slow.....QUITE A IMPRESSIVE FISH!!!
Wow, never seen one even close to that. I worked on the Miss Mayport before she burned down and we used to catch the typical 1-2 pounders. I think I read somewhere that the sea bass is related to those giant jewfish.

BTW, I'm not sure I would be diving off the Channel Islands anytime soon. There's been LOTS of GW shark sightings this year.

Since: Jan 08

La Quinta, CA

#58 Feb 3, 2011
noshellswill wrote:
<quoted text>
You cannot do those **questionable** behaviors without affecting others. Like playing with cobras or anthrax spores. Or randomly shooting your 375-cal out the bedroom window. Less obviously, groups of folks will have statistically measurable effects on others by acting **weird**.
You **cannot** isolate your own behavior from all others. Fageddaboudit. Best to accept NSS fascist/nationalist pro-production culture as the useful, high-value cop-out between Libertarian loons and ghetto-blasta-disastaz.
LOL, I see your point. Yes that secondary smoke will get the neighbors high, my kid will get in the car intoxicated and crash into someone, I actually clean my guns loaded with ammo so that's an issue, and I'll run up the credit card buying useless electronic goods which will hurt society.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#59 Feb 3, 2011
noshellswill wrote:
<quoted text>
Strunk & White ...[[ Elements of Style ]]. Did the Soviets thieve classic American texts? And since my Jesuit rhetoric Prof was a big Flannery O'Connor fan, a bit of southron gothic.
See, there you go again. Were you a member of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union?
noshellswill

Saint Augustine, FL

#60 Feb 3, 2011
SeaBass wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL, I see your point. Yes that secondary smoke will get the neighbors high, my kid will get in the car intoxicated and crash into someone, I actually clean my guns loaded with ammo so that's an issue, and I'll run up the credit card buying useless electronic goods which will hurt society.
Tut tut SB ... we both can tell marginal unlikely effects from those that can "snowball" at even-money. One is a **don't care**, the other a **woops!**.

I'll grant you, the Rawlsian/cosmopolitan/GREEN triad does **not** know a limit for grasping at power. Rational/stupid/malicious ... it's all the same to the statists, as long as their power stabilizes and their control over citizen behavior increases. A truly perverse & evil lot ....

Question is ... must they be fought at every step or can one separate rational Gub'mnt protections from over-reaching? My view has been that individuals acting alone need as-close-to 100% liberty from Gub'mnt control as possible, while groups with more power may be subject to proportional Gub'mnt regulation.

I can p*ss on my own lawn, but your chemical company may not dump anthrax spores into the local trout-stream. Growing up in a coal-mining city showed me lots of industrial actions needing Gub'mnt control my any means. I believe a rational/fascist case can be made for such plausible actions. Libertoonians and GREENs will not be satisfied.

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