The Church of Christ is the only chur...
Interesting

Knoxville, TN

#911 Dec 9, 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church

600 AD??? Wow. Please tell me again how you and your psycho church made up that particular year for the Catholic Church. It's written history you fucking retard. It's taught in the public schools about World History. Are you really this slow in the head? What ancient churches in Europe are the CofC churches? I'm just curious since you inserted the CofC's founding date where the Catholic Church's founding date is.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#913 Dec 9, 2012
Interesting wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C atholic_Church
600 AD??? Wow. Please tell me again how you and your psycho church made up that particular year for the Catholic Church. It's written history you fucking retard. It's taught in the public schools about World History. Are you really this slow in the head? What ancient churches in Europe are the CofC churches? I'm just curious since you inserted the CofC's founding date where the Catholic Church's founding date is.
The church actually began in Jerusalem after the death of Christ (Acts 1, 2)

No church, Catholic or Protestant, can trace its historical lineage to New Testament times. The oldest denominations are too young in age to be a New Testament church. How far back can the roots of denominations be traced? Notice the following dates of origin:

Roman Catholic Church - Rome, 606 A.D., with Boniface III as pope.
Lutheran Church - 1520 A. D., Germany, with Martin Luther's writings as authority
Episcopalian - 1534, England, when Henry VIII broke with Roman Catholicism
Presbyterian -1536, Switzerland, led by John Calvin
Congregational -1550 A.D., England, by Robert Browne
Baptist - 1607, Holland, by John Smythe
Methodist - 1739, England, by John Wesley
Latter Day Saints (Mormons)- 1830, America, by Joseph Smith
Adventists - 1830, America, by William Miller
Christian Scientist - 1866, America, by Mary Baker Eddy
Jehovah's Witnesses - 1872, America, by Charles T. Russell

As a matter of fact, at the time Jesus built his kingdom (church), no denomination of any kind was in existence. The church of Jesus Christ was established in 33 A.D., in the city of Jerusalem on the first Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus (Acts 1, 2). Any denomination that had its origin by another founder than Jesus cannot be the church that belongs to Christ. Any denominaton that is younger than 33 A.D. cannot be the Lord's church. Any denomination that was begun in another location than Jerusalem cannot be the Lord's church. Any denomination that follows a creed other than the Bible cannot be the Lord's church. Notice the Biblical history of the Lord's church:

Subject of Prophecy: Distant Fulfillment promised
2 Samuel 7:12-16 - the kingdom to be in David's lineage (Christ)
Isaiah 2 - the kingdom to begin at Jerusalem
Daniel 2 - the kingdom to begin in the days of Roman kings
Joel 2 - the kingdom to begin with power from the Holy Spirit
Subject of Prophecy: Near Fulfillment promises
Mt. 3:2 (Mk. 1:1-8)- John, the kingdom is at hand
Mk. 1:14-15 - Jesus, the kingdom is at hand
Mt. 16:13-19 - Jesus, the kingdom is promised
Mk. 9:1 - Jesus, the kingdom to be established in life-time of hearers
Prophecy fulfilled - the kingdom of Christ is established at Jerusalem
Acts 1-2 (notice 2:30-31)- throne of David established at Jesus' resurrection
Acts 2:47 - saved people added to the church in Jerusalem
Col. 1:13 - people continually added to the kingdom (church)
churches of Christ listed in New Testament as in existence during apostles' life
Jerusalem - Acts 1:36-47; 6:1; 8:1-4
Judea and Samaria - Acts 1:8; 8:5; 9:31
Uttermost parts of the earth - Acts 1:8
Gentiles added to the church - Acts 10, 11, 15
Antioch - Acts 11:19-24
Asia Minor
Paul's first missionary journey: Acts 13:1-28
Paul's second journey: Acts 15:36--16:5 (Macedonian call)
Europe
Paul's third journey: Acts 18:23--21:8
Rome - Romans 1:1-7
Corinth - 1 Cor. 1:1-2; 2 Cor. 1:1-2
churches of Galatia - Gal. 1:1-2
Ephesus - Eph. 1:1-2
Philippi - Phil. 1:1-2
Colossae - Col. 1:1-2
Thessalonica - 1 Thes. 1:1-2; 2 Thes. 1:1-2
churches in private homes - 1 Cor. 16:18; Col. 4:16, etc.
seven churches of Asia - Rev. 1:10--3:32

Thus, overwhelming evidence exists in scripture to prove that the church foreseen by the prophets and promised by Jesus actually started in Acts 2 in Jerusalem and spread throughout the Roman Empire and beyond in New Testament times. Yet, as the New Testament ends, not a single denomination existed!

Since: Jul 10

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#914 Dec 9, 2012
, the Holy Spirit testified that the Lord's church would become divided, that apostasy (a great falling away from the faith) would occur. The apostle Paul warned the Ephesian elders that such division would come (Acts 20:17-31).

Forces of division were already at work in Corinth during Paul's lifetime (1 Cor. 1:10-13). The Holy Spirit expressly testified about a "departure" from the faith (1 Tim. 4:1-6; 2 Tim. 4:1-4). The apostle John warned of those who, though in the church, were not satisfied with the truth but who placed themselves above the truth (the Gnostic heresy)- 1 John 1; 2 John 9-11; 3 John 9. Satan was at work to combat the church by creating division among believers. This division remains to this day, growing worse as more denominations are formed.

The first full-fledged denomination, distinct from the church of Jesus Christ was the Roman Catholic church (see 1 Tim. 4:1-3; 2 Thes. 2:1-15). The first pope (an office unknown to the New Testament), Boniface III, was appointed in 606 A.D.(600 years after the Lord's church began). This was a culmination of many departures from truth. Note the following traditions of men that led to the beginning of Roman Catholicism: church councils; hierarchy (diocesan bishops, cardinals, popes, synods, monks, nuns, convents, monasteries, etc.); holy water (about 120 A.D.); doctrine of penance (about 157 A.D.); worship of Mary (about the 4th century); doctrine of Purgatory (5-6th century); extreme unction (6th century); celibacy of priests and nuns (11th century); sale of indulgences (12th century); instruments of music in worship (666 A.D.); sprinkling for baptism (introduced in 3rd century, but fully adopted in 1311); plus the use of the Rosary, lighting of candles, burning of incense, sacramental system, Christmas, Easter, Lent, prayers to dead saints, etc.

Contrary to the teachings of Catholicism, Peter was never a pope. He was married, an equal among equal apostles, and rebuked by Paul for sins (Gal. 2:11-14). The church was not built upon Peter (a mere man), but upon the confession of the deity of Jesus as the Son of God, the true rock (Mt. 16:13-19).

Since: Jul 10

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#916 Dec 9, 2012
As Roman Catholicism grew, it became abusive and authoritarian, forbidding common people (non-priests) to read the Bible, denying them access to God's grace except by the sacerdotal system of a corrupt priesthood. Religion plunged into darkness, persecution, and ignorance. Creeds, traditions of men and superstitions bound people to error while truth was withheld from them.

In these centuries of "dark ages," men arose who "protested" against the doctrines and practices of Roman Catholicism. From this crucible of persecution and error came a religious uprising known historically as the "Protestant Reformation." At the front of the battle was Martin Luther (followed by many others) who attempted to "reform" the apostate church. Unsuccessful at reform, their efforts led to a splintering of the Catholic church. Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, etc. all had their beginnings as competing creeds were formed to explain departures from the Catholic church. These Protestant churches further divided, divided again, and continue to divide today. In America, there has been an explosion of denominations, too numerous to mention, but numbering in the hundreds. Most of us have become accustomed to the situation, not realizing that this is, indeed, a far cry from the unity that was intended for believers in Christ.

In this cauldron of boiling religious division, we need to recall the words of Jesus about the unity which we have failed to cultivate. He said:

“Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.“As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.“And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; “that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me."

In keeping with this, the apostle Paul commanded unity:

"Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says,“I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" (1 Cor. 1:10-13).

The Bible outlines the completeness of unity in Eph. 4:1-6:

"I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

Thus, Jesus prayed for unity, that "all believers might be one." Paul instructed that we should "all speak the same thing," "that there be no division," and that we all be "perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." This unity is found in the one body of Christ, the church (Eph. 4:4-6; Eph. 1:22-23). It is to our shame today that Jesus' prayer goes unanswered, that Paul's instructions remain unheeded. Denominationalism, so common and accepted, is wrong and sinful. There has to be a way of unity for believers in Jesus Christ

Since: Jul 10

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#917 Dec 9, 2012
According to Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
A person learns to murder? WTF are talking about. Exactly what consequences are suffered prior to killing someone whereby the person then learns to murder? You're not making very much sense WftL, I think I've gotten you away from regurgitating scripture and into a realm of having to think for yourself, now you're just talking nonsense.
Where can I find God's law exactly. I'm not talking about some metaphorical mumbo-jumbo concerning being "written on our hearts". Is it written in the Bible? If so, have you looked it exactly what it says because I did and it's pretty messed up how god would have us deal with certain offenses. Care to guess what his favorite punishment for almost every crime? Death.
You are damn right I judge your mythical being by my moral standards. I give two shits what his standards are, throwing innocent babies against rocks is sadistic even for god to command. This is one of the reasons I abhor religion, it makes normal people say utterly wicked things.
If the story were true concerning Noah I would say that committing genocide on a global scale is kinda wrong. However no such flood ever occurred and the story of Noah is a retelling of other such flood myths from previous civilizations. Your imaginary god didn't send a flood and in reality he never killed anyone because he never existed. The bible is simply a chronicle of fucked up evil shit perpetrated by men who claimed to have your god on their side.
If god saves babies by killing them then I guess abortion doctors are doing gods will and saving babies too. After all by your logic it is better that they be murdered in the womb, that way they live in eternal happiness instead of eternal seperation from god. But I'm sure you you'll come up with an another excuse.
It's always what you would say or do if you were God, you're not doing any good as a human and you want to say what you would do if you were God, you've already messed up the minds of countless young people with your science fiction and you still feel you have an edge over God, pitiful.

Since: Jul 10

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#918 Dec 9, 2012
A true saying for sure. Most non Christians don't want to serve any master, indeed the self will in them seems to be so prevalent that even the suggestion that you MUST serve someone will enrage them and bring about abuse and personal attacks against ones sanity and character. But then again serving the 'world' seems inevitable when someone other than yourself controls your finances.

Hate

Luke 6:22-23 Blessed are you when men hate you , when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evi l, because of the Son of Man . Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.
Mmmmmmm

Jackson, TN

#919 Dec 9, 2012
Interesting wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C atholic_Church
600 AD??? Wow. Please tell me again how you and your psycho church made up that particular year for the Catholic Church. It's written history you fucking retard. It's taught in the public schools about World History. Are you really this slow in the head? What ancient churches in Europe are the CofC churches? I'm just curious since you inserted the CofC's founding date where the Catholic Church's founding date is.
Has anybody ever heard of Paul? Has anybody ever heard of Paul being shipwrecked on Malta? You see when Paul was shipwrecked on Malta he shared his Lord with the people of Malta. People of and on the island of Malta are catholic and have been since Paul's shipwreck. Not church of Christ. Someone needs to do some real research. If memory serves me right Jesus revealed himself to Paul that's when Saul was converted and began teaching the gospel. If the church of Christ was before the Catholic Church don't you think the people Paul himself taught would be church of Christ? I mean Paul died in 67 ad that's a little before the date you claim the Catholic Church was started. I know what's coming. It's obvious you can't be wrong and have to have the last word so go ahead.(Not you interesting)

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#920 Dec 9, 2012
According to Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
A person learns to murder? WTF are talking about. Exactly what consequences are suffered prior to killing someone whereby the person then learns to murder? You're not making very much sense WftL, I think I've gotten you away from regurgitating scripture and into a realm of having to think for yourself, now you're just talking nonsense.
Where can I find God's law exactly. I'm not talking about some metaphorical mumbo-jumbo concerning being "written on our hearts". Is it written in the Bible? If so, have you looked it exactly what it says because I did and it's pretty messed up how god would have us deal with certain offenses. Care to guess what his favorite punishment for almost every crime? Death.
You are damn right I judge your mythical being by my moral standards. I give two shits what his standards are, throwing innocent babies against rocks is sadistic even for god to command. This is one of the reasons I abhor religion, it makes normal people say utterly wicked things.
If the story were true concerning Noah I would say that committing genocide on a global scale is kinda wrong. However no such flood ever occurred and the story of Noah is a retelling of other such flood myths from previous civilizations. Your imaginary god didn't send a flood and in reality he never killed anyone because he never existed. The bible is simply a chronicle of fucked up evil shit perpetrated by men who claimed to have your god on their side.
If god saves babies by killing them then I guess abortion doctors are doing gods will and saving babies too. After all by your logic it is better that they be murdered in the womb, that way they live in eternal happiness instead of eternal seperation from god. But I'm sure you you'll come up with an another excuse.
Once again you read wrong,Your Little Ones against the Rock!’ does not mean: let them be smashed to death, but to Life. 4 and all of them drank the same miraculous water. For they all drank from the miraculous rock that traveled with them, and that rock was Christ. 1 Corinthian 10:4


Happy the one who takes and dashes your little ones against the rock!
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Ghost.
As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be:
world without end.
Amen.
You're angry at God because of your ignorance, you are a negative person ay every level, which is why you hate God, just because of simply being ignorant.
Big Munney Hussla

Jackson, TN

#921 Dec 9, 2012
If you are not saved in the CoC you go to hell? All other denominations do not matter? Okay that is total crap. Crap Head Ned. Go to Bed.
Big Munney Hussla

Jackson, TN

#922 Dec 9, 2012
Hussla does it all day everyday baby!

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#923 Dec 9, 2012
The Immorality of Atheism
Text: Romans 1:28-32
I. Atheism is a religion of destruction
A. Its adherents try to destroy the belief system of any contrary belief system
1. It demands proof from others while believing that giving no proof of its own is somehow “proof”
2. As an example,“Prove there is a God” is never met with proof that God cannot exist. An atheist is convinced that he doesn’t have to offer proof, he only desires to tear down others.
II. The Bible teaches that atheism is an immoral system
A. In Romans 1:28-32 is a list of chaotic behavior that comes from a foundation where the knowledge of God is rejected
B. Psalms 14 - To say there is no God leads to corruption, disgusting behavior, and nothing good.
C. In 1929 there was a debate between W. L. Oliphant, a preacher from the Oak Cliff Church of Christ in Dallas, Texas, and Charles Smith, president of the American Association of the Advancement of Atheism.
1. One of the propositions of the debate was whether atheism was beneficial and promoted morality better than any other system.
2. Mr. Oliphant pointed out the Mr. Smith spent his entire time trying to find flaws in Christianity, but was never able to state what good atheism did.
3. Further, he challenged “Mr. Smith to name any principle of morality that I cannot read in the Bible. Let him mention any virtue he may think of, and I will read it in this Book – the Christian’s standard of life.”[F. L. Rowe, Oliphant - Smith Debate, 1929]
4. Mr. Smith admitted he could not name one, but he claimed that it was because you could prove most anything by the Bible.
III. The morality of Christian teaching - just a sample
A. Avoid hatred - Matthew 5:21-22
B. Reconcile - Matthew 5:24
C. Love enemies - Matthew 5:44
D. Don’t lust - Matthew 5:28
E. Avoid worry - Matthew 6:25, 29
F. No unfair judgments - Matthew 7:1-2
G. Examine self first - Matthew 7:3-5
H. Seek to forgive - Mark 11:25
I. Humility - Luke 14:11
J. Truth is the basis of freedom - John 8:32
K. Benevolence - Acts 20:35
L. Affection and unselfishness - Romans 12:10
M. Righteous behavior - Romans 12:17
N. No personal vengeance - Romans 12:18-19
O. Respect for government - Romans 13:1-7
P. Thrift and industry - Ephesians 4:28
Q. Equality of men - James 2:1-4
R. As Paul noted, no one is against the product of Christianity - Galatians 5:22-23
IV. The morality of Christian followers
A. Are there people who claim to be Christians who act immorally? Most certainly.
B. Have there been evil done in the name of Christianity? Most certainly
C. Witch Trials

Since: Jul 10

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#924 Dec 9, 2012
Final part

1. The Salem witch trials, which took place in 1692 for about a year. It lead to 150 people put in imprison and 16 people put to death. If you add in the people killed prior to 1692, though not officially a part of the Salem witch hunts, there was an additional 19 people killed. A total of 35 deaths. A few years later, in 1697 the judge in those trials confessed his guilt in ordering those deaths and imprisonments. It was a shameful act, that eventually was rectified as best as could be done.

2. Europe was worse, estimates are that 30,000 people were killed for practicing witchcraft over a 300 year period.[http://www.newscholars .com/papers/Killing,%20Christi anity,%20and%20Atheism.pdf]

D. Inquisitions

1. There were several inquisitions that covered a 500 year period. Records are poor at best, but the best estimates are that about 6,000 people were killed in that 500 year period. The most famous, the Spanish Inquisition lead to the deaths of about 2,000 people.

2. These eventually lead to formal admission of guilt by Catholic leaders and a repudiation of what was done.

E. The Crusades

1. Again, there are no statistics and the estimates vary widely depending on the motives of the ones giving the numbers.

2. It lasted about 200 years. One estimate is between 58,000 and 133,000 people died in the battles.[http://www.newscholar s.com/papers/Killing,%20Christ ianity,%20and%20Atheism.pdf]

F. One historian estimates that 133 million people were killed in wars prior to 1900. And 128 million have been killed since then.[R. J. Rummel, Death by Government, http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM , 1994]

1. 62 million by the Soviets

2. 35 million by Communist China

3. 21 million by the Nazis

4. 10 million by The Depraved Nationalist Regime (China)

5. 6 million by Japan’s military

6. 2 million by the Khmer Rouge State

7. 1.9 million by Turkey’s genocidal purges

8. 1.7 million by Vietnamese War

G. More people were killed by governments supporting atheism than any religious based war. Notice that Christianity was not behind these mega-deaths.

H. The conclusion is that Christianity, while not able to completely stop atrocities, puts on major breaks against mass killings.

V. A thought to consider

A. It’s late at night and you are walking down the streets of a major city. You see a a group of 10 young men coming toward you. How would you feel? A bit nervous, scared?

1. What if you then noticed they were carrying Bibles because they just came out of a study?

2. Suddenly relieved? Why?

B. There is something about Christian teaching that brings better behavior out of people - Matthew 7:12

Since: Jul 10

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#925 Dec 9, 2012
Sin is contagious and must be controlled
A. Consider the world before the flood - Genesis 6:5-6
1. God destruction of the world was not arbitrary or done in a fit of rage.
2. As bad as mankind became, God gave them 120 years to change - Genesis 6:3
3. Noah preached to change the world - II Peter 2:4-9
4. People were offered salvation. They did not have to die.
5. Why did children die in the flood? Because their evil parents did not believe God.
a. Despite the parents’ bad choices, God doesn’t hold those choices against the children
b. They will have eternal life despite their parents’ sins.
B. Consider Sodom and Gomorrah - Genesis 18:20-21
1. Children lived in those cities
2. Abraham knew God would do something about Sodom and Gomorrah’s sin.
a. God wasn’t lashing out emotionally.
b. He told Abraham He was checking it out before delivering judgment
3. Abraham asked that the innocent be spared and eventually asked that the cities be spared if just ten righteous people could be found
a. Ten isn’t a very large number if you consider the population of several major cities.
4. Though ten were not found, Lot, his wife, and two of his daughters were rescued.
a. Lot delivered a warning that night, but no one would listen
b. Let’s be blunt: it was the refusal of the evil to listen that resulted in the death of their children.
C. Nineveh illustrates the opposite
1. God decided to destroy the city and the evil within it.
2. He sent Jonah to warn the people they had 40 days - Jonah 3:4
3. But they repented and God did not destroy the city - Jonah 3:10

Since: Jul 10

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#926 Dec 9, 2012
Is the Papacy Biblical?
Text: Matthew 16:13-20
I. The world was fascinated with the process the Roman Catholic Church used to pick a new pope.
A. We were given detailed accounts of all the traditions surrounding a pope’s selection
B. We were shown the events step by step.
C. But in all the hoopla, how many wondered where the papacy came from?
1. It certainly wasn’t from the Bible because popes are not mentioned in the text.
2. Nor can you find cardinals, let alone elections, or colored smoke and the like.
D. The Roman Catholic Church bases it’s papacy on a set of beliefs
1. That Peter was the rock on which the church was founded
2. That Peter was the chief apostle
3. That there has be a succession to the apostles
E. While other denominations reject the papacy, the Roman Catholic church is not alone in these basic tenets.
1. Several major denominations believe that their leaders are a in a succession of leaders dating back to the apostles: one leader being appointed by other leaders, who were in turn appointed, and so on back to the days of the apostles.
2. The Episcopal Church and the Greek Orthodox Church are notable representatives of this belief.
II. Was Peter the rock?- Matthew 16:18
A. Much is made of the fact that Peter’s name means “stone”(Greek: petros)
1. What is glossed over is that Jesus said upon this rock (Greek: petra) I will build my church. There is a change in terms.
2. To slide around the difficulty, you will find people saying that Matthew was originally written in Aramaic, where the two words are the same. It is then argued that the difference was introduced by the translator to bring stylistic variances so it would be easier to read in Greek.
a. But wait! No Aramaic version of Matthew exists!
b. International Standard Bible Encyclopedia:“One thing which seems certain is that whatever this Hebrew (Aramaic) document may have been, it was not an original form from which the present Greek Gospel of Matthew was translated, either by the apostle himself, or by somebody else ... Indeed, the Greek Matthew throughout bears the impression of being not a translation at all, but as having been originally written in Greek.”

Since: Jul 10

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#929 Dec 9, 2012
Why I left Atheism by John N. Clayton,, I guess the reason that I was an atheist is the same reason that many of you are believers in God if you are. That was because I had been indoctrinated in that particular persuasion. My background, the variables that were exposed to me as a child, led me very strongly in that direction. Just as many of you believe in God because your parents believe in God and because they instilled this belief in you, I also questioned, challenged, and rejected God because that was the kind of indoctrination that I received as a child. I can remember my mother saying to me as a child something like,“Do you really believe there is an old man, floating around in the sky, blasting things into existence here upon the earth? Do you really believe that crummy looking structure on the corner could be something beautiful called ‘the church?’ Do you really believe that there is a hole in the ground that I am going to be thrown into and burned eternally if I do not live just the way some preacher thinks I ought to?” Of course, I could not conceive of these things as a child and did not know enough to realize they are not what the Bible teaches. Consequently, I came to believe that anybody who believed in God was just silly, superstitious, ignorant, and unlearned. You may wonder how it would be possible for a person coming out of this type of background and kind of learning situation to become a strong believer in God today, devoting his life to trying to help people to understand that there is a God in heaven and that the Bible is his literal and verbally inspired Word. It is the purpose of this booklet to try and point out at least some of the things that entered into my acceptance of God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible as God's Word. Reason this and the rest of this I invite you to read. http://www.doesgodexist.org/AboutClayton/Past...

Since: Jul 10

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#930 Dec 9, 2012
Here's some more on John N. Claytons article I read the Bible through from cover to cover four times during my sophomore year in college for the explicit purpose of finding scientific contradictions in it. By that, I mean statements in the Bible that were false that I could throw back at her to show her how ridiculous it was to believe in God. I had even decided to write a book called All the Stupidity of the Bible. Something amazing happened as I did this. As I considered and thought about these things, I found that I could not find a contradiction&#8201;—& #8201;to find some kind of scientific inaccuracy in the Bible. I just simply was not able to do it. I gave up writing the book because of lack of material! It is amazing to me that as I talk to people, I find many who claim to be Christians and who perhaps claim to have been Christians for many years who have not read the Bible through cover to cover once. I find it hard to believe that they believe in God very much if they do not even want to know what he has to say.

Since: Jul 10

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#931 Dec 10, 2012
Question:

Quick question or comment about the statement of the Earth being flat: You refute that claim with this:

The real core of the argument is a claim that the Hebrew word tehom implies that something is flat. There is just one small problem. "Flat" isn't in tehom's definition. Tehom is "A noun meaning 'the depths of the ocean'"

But while Tehom does mean “deep”(noun) or “abyss” and does imply a three-dimensional space of water, that doesn’t mean a “spherical” space of water. A flat Earth, of course, would not be two dimensional like Edwin Abbott’s Flatland, it would simply be disc-shaped rather than sphere or cube shaped, etc. A disc-shaped Earth that exists in three-space could simply have a thickness to it that allows it to have depressions in which water is held, as the Flat Earth society believes. So I don’t think that having a “deep” refutes the indication that the Earth is flat. Rather, it refutes the idea that it’s two-dimensional and completely flat, which is not what people are claiming the Bible says. So I guess my question is still: Doesn’t the Bible say that the Earth is a circle as opposed to a sphere?

----------

Answer:

You reversed an implication and came up with a falsehood. The original claim was that tehom implied a flat object. I showed that the meaning does not include flatness, thus the core of the person's argument was unjustified.

"When He prepared the heavens, I was there, when He drew a circle on the face of the deep" (Proverbs 8:22).

"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in" (Isaiah 40:22).

The Hebrew word translated as "circle" is chuwg (or sometimes transliterated as khug). It translates the concept of something round, rounded, or dome shaped and can be applied to a spherical shape. For example, the other place this word is used is "Clouds are a hiding place for Him, so that He cannot see; and He walks on the vault of heaven" (Job 22:14) to describe shape of the sky. Notice that "dome" would be an accurate translation in all three usages of the word in the Bible.

Chuwg is not used in the Bible to describe a flat circle or a disk. You cannot take what people wish this word to mean and then state that is how it was used by the writers of the Bible. The Hebrew word for a flat circle, by the way is cabab. "So he had the ark of the LORD taken around the city, circling it once; then they came into the camp and spent the night in the camp" (Joshua 6:11).

Proverbs 8:22 is of particular interest because it says the oceans (the deep) are round or circular. Yet, it cannot be describing the shape of the shoreline since they are anything but round. However, the surface of the oceans (its face) is round or spherical in shape. We know such to be true because the earth is a sphere and the oceans take on a rounded (or if you will, a circular) shape. A disk shaped world would not give the oceans a circular, rounded, or dome shape.

The point is that the Bible does not call the earth a flat circle or a disk. The description of the earth is fully compatible with what we know: that the earth is a spherical shape.

Since: Jul 10

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#932 Dec 10, 2012
Although most life-forms that we know today are represented in the fossil record, conspicuously absent are many millions of fossils that should represent the transitional forms of life between the major “kinds.” Rather than being in some kind of ascending order, according to the theory of evolution, many are out-of-place, signifying that we are dealing with a mixed-up theory.
Time
But what about these rocks that supposedly are “millions of years old.” Is this not scientific data that proves evolution? With reference to the rocks and dating techniques, one hears plenty of conclusions but little proof. The dating methods of these so-called scientists are based upon evolutionary presuppositions. Their methods make unfounded assumptions about the nature of rocks and the rate of decay. These methods have found living mollusks to be 2,300 years old (for numerous examples of documented dating blunders, see, Creation, Evolution, and the Age of the Earth by Wayne Jackson).
Something suspicious is going on.
Evolutionist says:“This fossil is 70,000,000 years old because it is in this rock that is 70,000,000 years old.”
Student:“And how do you know the age of that rock?”
Evolutionist:“Because it contains a 70,000,000 year old fossil.”
R.H. Rastall wrote some years ago:

Since: Jul 10

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#933 Dec 10, 2012

Atheism’s Motives

Atheism arises out of human rebellion. After citing the arrogant claim,“There is no God”(Psalm 14:1), the psalmist provides the motive behind the infidelity:“they are corrupt, they have done abominable works. There is none that does good”(see 14:2ff).

Derek Kidner has well noted:


“The assertion,‘There is no God,’ is in fact treated in Scripture not as a sincere if misguided conviction, but as an irresponsible gesture of defiance. In the context of Psalm 10:4 it is expounded as a gamble against moral sanctions; in Job 21:7-15 as impatience of authority; in Romans 1:18ff. as intellectual and moral suicide”(1973, 79).

This base disposition may be illustrated amply from a sampling of modern atheistic writings. Bertrand Russell - who affirmed:“I see no reason … to believe in any sort of God”- subsequently wrote:“Outside human desires there is no moral standard”(1957, 33, 62).

Atheist philosopher Jean Paul Sartre declared:“Everything is indeed permitted if God does not exist.” He further stated that without God there are no “values” that can “legitimize our behavior”(1961, 485). He went so far as to affirm:“We can never do evil”(1966, 279).

In his popular book, The Meaning of Evolution, the late Professor George G. Simpson of Harvard, a militant opponent of Christianity, sought to find some rationale for morality. In a chapter titled,“The Ethics of Knowledge and of Responsibility,” Simpson revealed more than he intended when he declared:“Man has risen, not fallen”(emphasis added).

Supposedly, then, humanity is free to evolve its own code of ethics; Simpson denied there is any “absolute ethical criterion” to which men need to yield (1949, 309ff). Man is his own god!

It is hardly difficult to see the self-centered motive that underlies the creed of atheism
Auntie Theist

Tucker, GA

#934 Dec 10, 2012
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> Very well said.
I've read a few of your posts and they all seem to relate to the same source. It seems that everything you state or believe is based on the writings in one old book. Your bible was selected by Roman Catholics from many other contemporary writings and first "published" in its present form in 367CE by the Bishop of Alexandria. Much was omitted as it was considered to be heterodoxy ie. not conforming to the chosen beliefs of the selection panel. After this selection, said book was translated multiple times by hand (sometimes illiterates.) Many translations had ulterior motivations. After translations, copies of copies were again made by hand (have you ever played the telephone game?) Finally, interpretations were put upon it century after century by thousands of denominations. After all this, you quote this book as a source of your learning and belief system? I have a great car for sale - it gets 500 mpg and flies when no one is watching - special deal to you, only $50,000 cash.

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