Where do dinosaurs and cavemen fit in...
Adam

Youngstown, OH

#492 Feb 14, 2013
common knowledge wrote:
you should spend some time reading the works of Darwin. He explains the creation of man far better than the bible can, and manages to do so without contradiction. you will also not be required to read between the lines or infer the authors meaning. Neither will you have to rely on the leader of the congregation to explain it to the ones who dont get it. some seek the truth and some blindly follow and even refer to themselves as sheep.
Darwin's theory of evolution and natural selection has so many holes that are never mentioned by educators that it is downright ignorant. It is taught often as fact rather than theory, with no mention of the enumerable flaws such as the lack of transitional species found in the fossil record, how sexes could have evolved, or even how something could evolve because if it doesn't get the "experiment" right the first time, natural selection would say it would then die off, making evolution impossible. Even with our advance science, man cannot create a single living cell. We have created nothing in this world that hasn't simply been a tool that uses existing laws of physics and chemistry. The Bible discusses the pride of men and their nature to question and deny God. People say it isn't accurate, but many who say this are not even familiar with much of the scripture beyond the famous stories of Noah's ark and Moses' exodus of the Israelites. The fulffilled prophecy throughout the Bible and the description of how things will become couldn't be more accurate. If you really think about it, it takes more faith to believe that you somehow "evolved" from a pool of sludge in some random way without guidance of a higher power and became a human that is far more intelligent than anything else living, than it does to just believe in God the creator and the sustainor. Seriously, I hope you look into this. I used to be very skeptical myself, but I have grown in my faith since I have done much investigation. I am not arguing that the Bible discredits evolution, I am arguing that science does.
EvolutionMan

Tucker, GA

#493 Feb 14, 2013
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Darwin's theory of evolution and natural selection has so many holes that are never mentioned by educators that it is downright ignorant. It is taught often as fact rather than theory, with no mention of the enumerable flaws such as the lack of transitional species found in the fossil record, how sexes could have evolved, or even how something could evolve because if it doesn't get the "experiment" right the first time, natural selection would say it would then die off, making evolution impossible. Even with our advance science, man cannot create a single living cell. We have created nothing in this world that hasn't simply been a tool that uses existing laws of physics and chemistry. The Bible discusses the pride of men and their nature to question and deny God. People say it isn't accurate, but many who say this are not even familiar with much of the scripture beyond the famous stories of Noah's ark and Moses' exodus of the Israelites. The fulffilled prophecy throughout the Bible and the description of how things will become couldn't be more accurate. If you really think about it, it takes more faith to believe that you somehow "evolved" from a pool of sludge in some random way without guidance of a higher power and became a human that is far more intelligent than anything else living, than it does to just believe in God the creator and the sustainor. Seriously, I hope you look into this. I used to be very skeptical myself, but I have grown in my faith since I have done much investigation. I am not arguing that the Bible discredits evolution, I am arguing that science does.
Please, if you have found flaws in the theory then please report them to the national academy of sciences so they can be reasearched further.

Till then, stop telling people that science and reason are wrong.

Thousands have dedicated their lives to discrediting evolution scientifically, and if you said that you have indeed done so, then prove it.

What are your main dissagreements with the theory, and why so? Do you have a better solution?
Adam

Youngstown, OH

#494 Feb 14, 2013
EvolutionMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Please, if you have found flaws in the theory then please report them to the national academy of sciences so they can be reasearched further.
Till then, stop telling people that science and reason are wrong.
Thousands have dedicated their lives to discrediting evolution scientifically, and if you said that you have indeed done so, then prove it.
What are your main dissagreements with the theory, and why so? Do you have a better solution?
I am sure that those people are aware of the flaws I have mentioned. I am not saying that I can prove it is 100% incorrect, but I am offering compelling evidence that ARE based on reason and science that should raise enough concern that this THEORY is not taught as fact, without any of these problems being mentioned.

As far as my reasoning for this belief, I briefly outlined it in the post you replied, but I will elaborate further. First and foremost, perhaps we should agree on a definition of evolution. I am regarding evolution as the increase in quantity and quality of genetic information by random occurrence that is a product of environmental factors. I do not dispute adaptation. In other words, Darwin's famous finches may have developed different beak geometries for cracking seeds, but to say that these birds were once fish, which was once a bacteria, is a far, far stretch.
Now, here are my main qualms with the theory of evolution and Darwinism. Please note, that I am using reason and logic here.

1)If evolution were true, then there should be enumerable amounts of intermediate species of animals found in the fossil records, and not just a few questionable ones.

2)How can evolution possibly explain the development of sexes? If say the male gender were first, then the female "evolved" from that, it would not have a mate, and natural selection tells us it would die off.

3)If evolution were true, when archaeologists examine the strata, they should find simple species at the bottom, growing more complex towards the top. However, this is not what has been found. Instead, there is nothing, and then, all at once, an EXPLOSION of both plant and animal life. This indicates an abrupt beginning to all life. If you don't believe me about this archaeological information, check it out for yourself.

4)Evolution says that man has diverged from a species of ape. Evolution is often explained as a divergent process, without anyone realizing the contradiction therein. How can something continuously diverge and form things that are more complex? If it were divergent there would be random disorder and nothing would have survived natural selection.

5)How can something design itself? Complexity of biological systems is self evident. As far as incredible similarity between DNA of us and apes, I don't dispute this. Consider a parking lot full of cars, however. A Geo Metro is a lot different from a garbage truck, but if you start disassembling either one you will find many of the same parts. This, to me, indicates design!

6)What happens when an animal is evolving and one of the awkward intermediate forms is unfit for either its current environment or the one it is adapting to? Natural selection would say it would die off! If the "experiment" that evolution says happens completely unguided fails, that species is done. So you may argue that is why evolution takes place over such a long time span. But if evolution is unguided how could the previous life forms that died of have "told" the others what didn't work so they may try something that does?

To me, evolution is a lot like saying I could take apart my car engine and throw some of the parts in a washing machine and expect it to reassemble itself into a functioning machine if I gave it enough time. Any reasonable person would realize that will not happen, and an engine is far simpler than biological systems! I believe everything had to be designed. However,God will never be the acceptable answer for science.
EvolutionMan

United States

#495 Feb 14, 2013
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
I am sure that those people are aware of the flaws I have mentionease in quantity and quality of genetic information by random occurrence that is a product of environmental factors. I do not dispute adaptation. In other words, Darwin's famous finches may have developed different beak geometries for cracking seeds, but to say that these birds were once fish, which was once a bacteria, is a far, far stretch.
Now, here are my main qualms with the theory of evolution and Darwinism. Please note, that I am using reason and logic here.
1)If evolution were true, then there should be enumerable amounts of intermediate species of animals found in the fossil records, and not just a few questionable ones.
2)How can evolution possibly explain the development of sexes? If say the male gender were first, then the female "evolved" from that, it would not have a mate, and natural selection tells us it would die off.
3)If evolution were true, when archaeologists examine the strata, they should find simple species at the bottom, growing more complex towards the top. However, this is not what has been found. Instead, there is nothing, and then, all at once, an EXPLOSION of both plant and animal life. This indicates an abrupt beginning to all life. If you don't believe me about this archaeological information, check it out for yourself.
4)Evolution says that man has diverged from a species of ape. Evolution is often explained as a divergent process, without anyone realizing the contradiction therein. How can something continuously diverge and form things that are more complex? If it were divergent there would be random disorder and nothing would have survived natural selection.
5)How can something design itself? Complexity of biological systems is self evident. As far as incredible similarity between DNA of us and apes, I don't dispute this. Consider a parking lot full of cars, however. A Geo Metro is a lot different from a garbage truck, but if you start disassembling either one you will find many of the same parts. This, to me, indicates design!
6)What happens when an animal is evolving and one of the awkward intermediate forms is unfit for either its current environment or the one it is adapting to? Natural selection would say it would die off! If the "experiment" that evolution says happens completely unguided fails, that species is done. So you may argue that is why evolution takes place over such a long time span. But if evolution is unguided how could the previous life forms that died of have "told" the others what didn't work so they may try something that does?
To me, evolution is a lot like saying I could take apart my car engine and throw some of the parts in a washing machine and expect it to reassemble itself into a functioning machine if I gave it enough time. Any reasonable person would realize that will not happen, and an engine is far simpler than biological systems! I believe everything had to be designed. However,God will never be the acceptable answer for science.
You seem to know the jist of things, but I still don't believe your thinking on time scales at which all of this works.
Organisms have been evolving for billions of years to where they are today.
You must realize, we have only been studying the subject for 200 years, that's a blink of an eye in the history of life.
But like I said, if you feel strongly that you have evidense against the theory, then please present it.
Because that's all it takes, just one fact will disprove it.
Sorry to be so short, I'm at work and won't have time for a full rebuttle until tonight.
One more thing, a very common disease is caused by the adding of unneeded genetic material, its called down syndrome, which is proof that genetics can vary greatly from generation to generation based on the genetics of the parents, even the adding of genetic information is possible through just one generation.
Bow think of that over millions of generations.
Auntie Theist

Tucker, GA

#496 Feb 14, 2013
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
I am sure that those people are aware of the flaws I have mentioned. I am not saying that I can prove it is 100% incorrect, but I am offering compelling evidence that ARE based on reason and science that should raise enough concern that this THEORY is not taught as fact, without any of these problems being mentioned.
As far as my reasoning for this belief, I briefly outlined it in the post you replied, but I will elaborate further. First and foremost, perhaps we should agree on a definition of evolution. I am regarding evolution as the increase in quantity and quality of genetic information by random occurrence that is a product of environmental factors. I do not dispute adaptation. In other words, Darwin's famous finches may have developed different beak geometries for cracking seeds, but to say that these birds were once fish, which was once a bacteria, is a far, far stretch.
Now, here are my main qualms with the theory of evolution and Darwinism. Please note, that I am using reason and logic here.
1)If evolution were true, then there should be enumerable amounts of intermediate species of animals found in the fossil records, and not just a few questionable ones.
2)How can evolution possibly explain the development of sexes? If say the male gender were first, then the female "evolved" from that, it would not have a mate, and natural selection tells us it would die off.
3)If evolution were true, when archaeologists examine the strata, they should find simple species at the bottom, growing more complex towards the top. However, this is not what has been found. Instead, there is nothing, and then, all at once, an EXPLOSION of both plant and animal life. This indicates an abrupt beginning to all life. If you don't believe me about this archaeological information, check it out for yourself.
4)Evolution says that man has diverged from a species of ape. Evolution is often explained as a divergent process, without anyone realizing the contradiction therein. How can something continuously diverge and form things that are more complex? If it were divergent there would be random disorder and nothing would have survived natural selection.
5)How can something design itself? Complexity of biological systems is self evident. As far as incredible similarity between DNA of us and apes, I don't dispute this. Consider a parking lot full of cars, however. A Geo Metro is a lot different from a garbage truck, but if you start disassembling either one you will find many of the same parts. This, to me, indicates design!
6)What happens when an animal is evolving and one of the awkward intermediate forms is unfit for either its current environment or the one it is adapting to? Natural selection would say it would die off! If the "experiment" that evolution says happens completely unguided fails, that species is done. So you may argue that is why evolution takes place over such a long time span. But if evolution is unguided how could the previous life forms that died of have "told" the others what didn't work so they may try something that does?
To me, evolution is a lot like saying I could take apart my car engine and throw some of the parts in a washing machine and expect it to reassemble itself into a functioning machine if I gave it enough time. Any reasonable person would realize that will not happen, and an engine is far simpler than biological systems! I believe everything had to be designed. However,God will never be the acceptable answer for science.
I wonder if you know your enemy! Have you read any books on evolution such as "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne or "The Ancestor's Tale" by Richard Dawkins? The overwhelming evidence in these books detailing the factual evidence collected over the last 150 years is indisputable, but you must read it to dispute it. I'm afraid apologist quotes from bible thumpers just won't work today.
I understand that evolution was not taught in TN. until the mid 60s.
Someone

Jackson, TN

#497 Feb 15, 2013
Ima Tellitlikeitis wrote:
First and foremost I'm very impressed at how civilized this conversation is. A rare find on topix. I tip my hat to all of you.
Here's what I don't get, all the info. in the Bible was written by man from what they were told by God. If no man is without sin, then who is to say the Bible is even correct...? Look at the corruption in the church today, I'm sure it exsisted 2K yrs. ago as well. Also, the Bible says we have a choice (free will) to chose Christ as our savior. If we/you do, then you go to heaven...if not then you go to hell. This sounds more like an ultimatum to me. Let's say your boss says "You can come into work at 6am or 10am YOUR CHOICE but if you come in at 10am, you're fired." See my point? Science proves evolution for both man & animals. The Bible proves....uhhh...what?
Also I don't believe that the bible ever contradicts itself when in its origional language. It is just when the bible is translated it is sometimes translated incorrectly which causes contradictions.. For ex. When it talks about how Judus dies the book of Acts says he buys a field and falls in that field and his guts go everywhere. But in Matthew it says he threw back the money to the people who gave it to him and he goes and hangs himself
what is next

United States

#498 Feb 15, 2013
Adam and Eve never existed... it's a Bible story and the entire Bible is a hoax.

Look at paintings from 500 years ago... they show belly buttons. If and I say if Adam and Eve were created the way the Bible says early painters would not have shown belly buttons.

It's all a crock and a bunch of lies... glad to be an atheist.
coffeequeen

Sacramento, CA

#499 May 10, 2013
Humble Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I'll tell you, if you look at the scripture that tells that story, you will see that Cain and Abel weren't Adam and Eve's only children. Which means over time they all probably split up to different regions because they were told to "be fruitful and multiply"
I "JUDGED" the wrong comment. I agree with yours. My judgement was for the comment above yours. I am sorry.
Auntie Theist

Tucker, GA

#500 May 12, 2013
coffeequeen wrote:
<quoted text>
I "JUDGED" the wrong comment. I agree with yours. My judgement was for the comment above yours. I am sorry.
Do you require the same amount of evidence to believe in your bible as you do to believe in evolution by natural selection?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#501 May 12, 2013
what is next wrote:
Adam and Eve never existed... it's a Bible story and the entire Bible is a hoax.
Look at paintings from 500 years ago... they show belly buttons. If and I say if Adam and Eve were created the way the Bible says early painters would not have shown belly buttons.
It's all a crock and a bunch of lies... glad to be an atheist.
Go to the nearest Church of Christ and get right with God and you'll be glad you did.
Auntie Theist

Tucker, GA

#502 May 13, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> Go to the nearest Church of Christ and get right with God and you'll be glad you did.
There are no gods in any churches of christ except tax exempt pastors.
Honest Citizen

United States

#503 May 13, 2013
Take a bow everyone we are in the presence of greatness. Auntie Theist has spoken his words of non-wisdom. Tell me theist, how you've become so blessed with the infinite knowledge and forsight of the divine? How have you been cursed with the knowledge that there is absolutely no God anywhere and you know this proof positive?
Auntie Theist

Tucker, GA

#504 May 13, 2013
Honest Citizen wrote:
Take a bow everyone we are in the presence of greatness. Auntie Theist has spoken his words of non-wisdom. Tell me theist, how you've become so blessed with the infinite knowledge and forsight of the divine? How have you been cursed with the knowledge that there is absolutely no God anywhere and you know this proof positive?
Isn't my post clear? The pastors are the gods - that's why they are tax exempt!
Honest Citizen

United States

#505 May 14, 2013
Auntie Theist wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't my post clear? The pastors are the gods - that's why they are tax exempt!
How in the world does that answer my question?
Auntie Theist

Tucker, GA

#506 May 14, 2013
Honest Citizen wrote:
<quoted text>
How in the world does that answer my question?
OK - here is your question: "How have you been cursed with the knowledge that there is absolutely no God anywhere and you know this proof positive?"

My answer was that there are some gods - they are tax exempt pastors!
Is that clear enough?
connie

Pekin, IL

#507 Jun 6, 2013
common knowledge wrote:
you should spend some time reading the works of Darwin. He explains the creation of man far better than the bible can, and manages to do so without contradiction. you will also not be required to read between the lines or infer the authors meaning. Neither will you have to rely on the leader of the congregation to explain it to the ones who dont get it. some seek the truth and some blindly follow and even refer to themselves as sheep.
I have no problem understanding the Bible. I would like to know what drug Darwin was on.
connie

Pekin, IL

#508 Jun 6, 2013
Auntie Theist wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder if you know your enemy! Have you read any books on evolution such as "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne or "The Ancestor's Tale" by Richard Dawkins? The overwhelming evidence in these books detailing the factual evidence collected over the last 150 years is indisputable, but you must read it to dispute it. I'm afraid apologist quotes from bible thumpers just won't work today.
I understand that evolution was not taught in TN. until the mid 60s.
Please explain the point of saying "I understand that evolution was not taught until the mid 60s". What does that have to do with anything being talked about, what do I call you a darwin thumper.

Since: Jun 13

Pekin, IL

#509 Jun 6, 2013
Auntie Theist wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder if you know your enemy! Have you read any books on evolution such as "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne or "The Ancestor's Tale" by Richard Dawkins? The overwhelming evidence in these books detailing the factual evidence collected over the last 150 years is indisputable, but you must read it to dispute it. I'm afraid apologist quotes from bible thumpers just won't work today.
I understand that evolution was not taught in TN. until the mid 60s.
I would like to know why "evolution not taught in TN until the mid 60s has to do with anything. I am afraid reading recommendations from a darwin thumper just won't work today.

Since: Jun 13

Pekin, IL

#510 Jun 6, 2013
what is next wrote:
Adam and Eve never existed... it's a Bible story and the entire Bible is a hoax.
Look at paintings from 500 years ago... they show belly buttons. If and I say if Adam and Eve were created the way the Bible says early painters would not have shown belly buttons.
It's all a crock and a bunch of lies... glad to be an atheist.
Do you even know why we have belly buttons.
Stool Sample

United States

#511 Jun 6, 2013
connie wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no problem understanding the Bible. I would like to know what drug Darwin was on.
Are you one of these people with more tatoos than teeth ? Just fucking wondered. The Bible is pretend and make believe. Fantasy. Not real. Horseshit. This is why the religious kooks got all pissy about the Harry Potter books, some years back. Organized Christian faith should have been discarded in the 1800's. That it has hung around this long is amazing. Some religious loon will attribute it to the power of God. No, the bible cannot reinvent itself, or align itself with modern science, to stay relevant. Darwin wason the drug called enlightenment and scientific discovery. You are obviously an uneducated fucktard. If you knew anything, which you do not, you would know that, Darwin, in his time, was a devoutly religious mind. He did not have the goal of dismantling the Christian faith. He traveled and explored a world, our planet, and tried to learn and understand it using accepted scientific standards. He did not reach down and pull evolution out ofhis rearend. It is time for you to embrace reality. Today, the religious right wing loons are celebrating the high school senior, a valedictorian, who apparently has shit for brains. They will applaud how he stood up for Christian values and the tyranny of our secular government. Yes, the kid was out of line. I am not certain what they, the school administration, can or should do about it. Maybe future graduating classes will not have a student speaker. Who know. The kid used piss poor judgement for a brainy valedictorian.

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