Englewwod Baptist Church

Englewwod Baptist Church

Posted in the Jackson Forum

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Prayer

Jackson, TN

#1 May 11, 2011
What is going on at Englewood?

I hear members are growing tired of high dollar worship pastor always being gone and then to spend 1,000,000 on retrofitting a room so they can pack more in and watch preacher on HD video.
WWJD

Jackson, TN

#2 May 11, 2011
Not a member of Englewood so cannot comment on your question.
However to their members or any other church, BE WEARY if any church or similar NON PROFIT REFUSES to release the salaries of its staff. Do NOT be fooled by their smoke and mirrors if they refuse because the only LOGICAL reason to REFUSE is they would BE EMBARASSED for you to know HOW MUCH THEY ARE BEING PAID.
I refuse to donate to any church or non profit without knowing the salaries and how much of the monies actually goes to reaching the lost, fighting cancer, etc.
I doubt a church the side of Englewood releases the salaries of its staff out of fear of its members finding out at least the senior staff are probably making more monies than 99% of its members.
Please spare me all the devil talk, trying to tear down churches, etc. These are legitimate questions I would ask before handing over any monies to a NON PROFIT including a church.
Josh

Jackson, TN

#3 May 11, 2011
Good point and I doubt most churches of any size (500+) members release salaries forn the exact reason you state but still expect you to blindly give even though tithing is not required by Jesus.
No doubt the worship pastor is never there. My wife follows him and he is gone a lot of weekends touring, recording or appearing with Beth Moore.
WWJD wrote:
Not a member of Englewood so cannot comment on your question.
However to their members or any other church, BE WEARY if any church or similar NON PROFIT REFUSES to release the salaries of its staff. Do NOT be fooled by their smoke and mirrors if they refuse because the only LOGICAL reason to REFUSE is they would BE EMBARASSED for you to know HOW MUCH THEY ARE BEING PAID.
I refuse to donate to any church or non profit without knowing the salaries and how much of the monies actually goes to reaching the lost, fighting cancer, etc.
I doubt a church the side of Englewood releases the salaries of its staff out of fear of its members finding out at least the senior staff are probably making more monies than 99% of its members.
Please spare me all the devil talk, trying to tear down churches, etc. These are legitimate questions I would ask before handing over any monies to a NON PROFIT including a church.
grindelswitch

Lexington, TN

#4 May 11, 2011
who in the heck is beth moore? should we be impressed?
Haha

Jackson, TN

#5 May 11, 2011
Traveling Mesntrual Show
grindelswitch wrote:
who in the heck is beth moore? should we be impressed?
Englewood Member

Jackson, TN

#6 May 11, 2011
The OP is severely misinformed. Any regular attendee at EBC will know that what the OP is saying has no basis in what is actually going on. As with any Baptist church, EVERYTHING gets voted on at a business meeting from salaries to room renovations. The million dollar claim is false by $700,000 or more. However, the expense is justified due the growth of attendance. Relocation or construction of a completely new facility is far more expensive and doesn't make much sence right now. As far as Travis is concerned, he is allowed a specific number of Sunday's each year to tour. He is not gone all the time, nor is he "high dollar".

I invite anybody who is skeptical of my rebuttal to the OP to join us in a business meeting to see how things are actually handled.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#7 May 11, 2011
Englewood Member wrote:
I invite anybody who is skeptical of my rebuttal to the OP to join us in a business meeting to see how things are actually handled.
Why are people even questioning what is done with the money. Faith means not wanting to know what is true.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

"And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence." Bertrand Russell
Follower

Jackson, TN

#8 May 12, 2011
I just looked it up on your church's website. 1.5 million is for "Our greatest immediate need is the creation of additional worship space in the JFC and more Sunday School rooms".

Is the JFC not gonna be the new HD Video Room? Now the amount is debatable and maybe the first person was a little high to say 66% of the 1.5M was to create a HD video venue but your certainley not in the know if you think 20% of 1.5m (300k) is going to do it as well. I doubt the other 1.2M according to you was to convert other rooms to SS use. 50 rooms would equate to 24K a room and if that is true well then you would believe anything and there is no need for further discussion.

Wow, I like how your church gives him a "specific number of Sunday's to not be there. Guess your not willing to admit I heard it is around 10 or approximately 20% of the Sundays each year. Now if that is ok with your members then great but it is obvious to others from the outside you were willing to make this expensive concession because of the "Star Power" he supposedly brings. I bet he does not make 80% of the salary of the previous worship pastors.
Englewood Member wrote:
The OP is severely misinformed. Any regular attendee at EBC will know that what the OP is saying has no basis in what is actually going on. As with any Baptist church, EVERYTHING gets voted on at a business meeting from salaries to room renovations. The million dollar claim is false by $700,000 or more. However, the expense is justified due the growth of attendance. Relocation or construction of a completely new facility is far more expensive and doesn't make much sence right now. As far as Travis is concerned, he is allowed a specific number of Sunday's each year to tour. He is not gone all the time, nor is he "high dollar".
I invite anybody who is skeptical of my rebuttal to the OP to join us in a business meeting to see how things are actually handled.
He Would Not Approve

Jackson, TN

#9 May 12, 2011
Your church wide "business meetings" are held once a month for approximately 10 minutes tops. Now please do not get on here and try to convince anyone individual salaries are discussed let alone in the budget that is passed around at these quazi business meetings.

I have seen a copy of these "budgets" from these business meetings and all are less than one page in length. They are all in generalties such as operations, missions, etc. Not a single budget breaks down salaries.

I can GUARANTEE everyone, including Englewood Member, unless you are on of the few memebers on a select committee you have no idea nor have ever seen or been told what the salaries of the staff are that make up the payroll expense.

There is a reason why they are to ashamed to post this information to ALL of its members let alone anyone else. They KNOW the TRUTH about the insane amount of monies they are being paid.

One last thing, spare me the comparison of a pastor to a CEO at a business and how they each lead an organization and thus try to justify their 100k and 200k + salaries.
Englewood Member wrote:
The OP is severely misinformed. Any regular attendee at EBC will know that what the OP is saying has no basis in what is actually going on. As with any Baptist church, EVERYTHING gets voted on at a business meeting from salaries to room renovations. The million dollar claim is false by $700,000 or more. However, the expense is justified due the growth of attendance. Relocation or construction of a completely new facility is far more expensive and doesn't make much sence right now. As far as Travis is concerned, he is allowed a specific number of Sunday's each year to tour. He is not gone all the time, nor is he "high dollar".
I invite anybody who is skeptical of my rebuttal to the OP to join us in a business meeting to see how things are actually handled.
Curious

Jackson, TN

#10 May 12, 2011
Well Englewood member does the budget passed around at these monthly business meeting break down the individual salaries or does it say what the poster says below that they are all in generalities.
He Would Not Approve wrote:
Your church wide "business meetings" are held once a month for approximately 10 minutes tops. Now please do not get on here and try to convince anyone individual salaries are discussed let alone in the budget that is passed around at these quazi business meetings.
I have seen a copy of these "budgets" from these business meetings and all are less than one page in length. They are all in generalties such as operations, missions, etc. Not a single budget breaks down salaries.
I can GUARANTEE everyone, including Englewood Member, unless you are on of the few memebers on a select committee you have no idea nor have ever seen or been told what the salaries of the staff are that make up the payroll expense.
There is a reason why they are to ashamed to post this information to ALL of its members let alone anyone else. They KNOW the TRUTH about the insane amount of monies they are being paid.
One last thing, spare me the comparison of a pastor to a CEO at a business and how they each lead an organization and thus try to justify their 100k and 200k + salaries.
<quoted text>

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#11 May 12, 2011
When you approach the subject of church salaries from the view of it being entertainment then it all makes sense. The pastor, priest, preacher, or whoever is the lead man and his duty is provoke an emotional response from the masses. If he wants money he invokes guilt, if he wants more members he invokes happiness, if he wants people to stop asking about his salary he tells them to come to the business meetings where you still cannot see the salary figures.(NOW STOP ASKING QUESTIONS!!)

Church is an entertainment business that first convinces decent moral humans that they are worthless pieces of dirt not worthy of life and then turns around and explains that all is well because the entire cosmos was made just for them.** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris **

Yes, your soul can be saved for the low low price of surrendering your critical thinking and 10% of your income (pre-tax of course). As a bonus you'll secure yourself eternal life (not this life but the other one you'll get.....stop asking questions!) and a mansion in the sky! You can't see it until you die, which is convenient, because on the chance that it's all made up you can't tell the other credulous fools...I mean fellow brothers and sisters about the scam and screw up the churches income stream.

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." Susan B. Anthony

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Delos B. McKown
King

Jackson, TN

#12 May 12, 2011
Your church could support another church or ministry say in a "struggling" area of Jackson rather than spending all the money so others may or may not come to watch your pastor on tv.

"We are settling for a Christianity that revolves around catering to ourselves when the central message of Christianity is actually about abandoning ourselves."
David Platt (Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream)
Englewood Member wrote:
The OP is severely misinformed. Any regular attendee at EBC will know that what the OP is saying has no basis in what is actually going on. As with any Baptist church, EVERYTHING gets voted on at a business meeting from salaries to room renovations. The million dollar claim is false by $700,000 or more. However, the expense is justified due the growth of attendance. Relocation or construction of a completely new facility is far more expensive and doesn't make much sence right now. As far as Travis is concerned, he is allowed a specific number of Sunday's each year to tour. He is not gone all the time, nor is he "high dollar".
I invite anybody who is skeptical of my rebuttal to the OP to join us in a business meeting to see how things are actually handled.
Pecos Bill

Lexington, TN

#13 May 12, 2011
Sounds like Englewood Baptist has become another "love and truth church". What a shame.
Radical

Jackson, TN

#14 May 12, 2011
I noticed your church teaches a financial peace class. You might want to get your senior church staff to sign up for the next time it is given considering I saw a church bulletin from a month or so ago stating the church debt was over 5,000,000 dollars.
No wonder they are willing to try and stuff people into an alternative room to watch pastor on tv-they need the money.
When you go this next time, tell me if it is true they no longer list the church debt on the bulletin. Also, it is a known fact the church takes in more than 4,500,000 a year but less than 500K ever makes it outside the walls of the church.
Good intentions, regular worship, Bible study, do not prevent blindness. Part of our sinful nature instinctively chooses to see what we want to see and to ignore what we want to ignore." David Platt
Englewood Member wrote:
The OP is severely misinformed. Any regular attendee at EBC will know that what the OP is saying has no basis in what is actually going on. As with any Baptist church, EVERYTHING gets voted on at a business meeting from salaries to room renovations. The million dollar claim is false by $700,000 or more. However, the expense is justified due the growth of attendance. Relocation or construction of a completely new facility is far more expensive and doesn't make much sence right now. As far as Travis is concerned, he is allowed a specific number of Sunday's each year to tour. He is not gone all the time, nor is he "high dollar".
I invite anybody who is skeptical of my rebuttal to the OP to join us in a business meeting to see how things are actually handled.
baptistmember

United States

#15 May 12, 2011
If their business meeting is like ours, it does quote the salaries of the pastor, music director, and any other paid positions in the church. So lovely to see free thinker put his atheist spin on everything.
Church Finance

Jackson, TN

#16 May 12, 2011
Englewood's monthly business meetings NEVER mention salaries of individual staff members in speaking or in the prepared monthly budget on paper (1 sheet) passed around. They only list generalities such as operations, etc.

You should be proud your church still does this and does not refuse to release those figures to their members or require some interrogation as to why you should know and then still refuse to release it the vast majority of the time (unless of course your a large donor).

What is your church by the way if you do not mind sharing?
baptistmember wrote:
If their business meeting is like ours, it does quote the salaries of the pastor, music director, and any other paid positions in the church. So lovely to see free thinker put his atheist spin on everything.
Bayouman68

Jackson, TN

#17 May 12, 2011
baptistmember wrote:
If their business meeting is like ours, it does quote the salaries of the pastor, music director, and any other paid positions in the church. So lovely to see free thinker put his atheist spin on everything.
I was finding it really amusing that everyone was ignoring the one-track minded, not well-rounded ft82....branch out a little dude!!! Surely you have more interests than just giving your opinion to every Christian on here....... BORING!!!!!!

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#18 May 12, 2011
Why thank you babtistmember, someone how to be the voice of reason.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#19 May 12, 2011
Religion and wish thinking aside, if you think your church is acting roguish then stop giving them money. It's not a hard think to figure out folks. Englewwod Baptist Church is no different than any other organization so please don't think I'm singling them out. Englewood is not "blessed" by some magical being, it is a man made non-profit/non-taxed organization and the people who control the money flow are going to use it to their benefit. Anyone in such a position is going to be secretive about the money because they know the truth will set some people off.

If you're willing to be skeptical about how the place is being run why is it so hard to be skeptical about the message they are feeding you? You're not seeing the forest of BS for the trees.
Dump The Debt

Jackson, TN

#20 May 12, 2011
Englewood cannot DUMP the DEBT because of the high dollar salaries it pays its senior staff and many others.

They are no different than the government with OUT OF CONTROL SPENDING.

I think you pastor and leadership got the message when the GREATER VISION campaign failed to bring in even half of what they had wanted. I was simply amazed they would have the audacity to even ask to RAISE a portion of the monies to put in the bank to save with 5,000,000 in debt.

I have no doubt your young pastor along with his LIFEWAY connected worship pastor will bail on you soon enough holding the bag (debt) while they sail off on another GOD inspired calling when it all starts to crumble.

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