Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.

There are 20 comments on the Oct 17, 2011, Centre Daily Times story titled Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.. In it, Centre Daily Times reports that:

In this June 6, 2011 file photo, Ezekiel Sowell, 7, right,of Tupelo, Miss., sings during a prayer rally for the Personhood Amendment at the Capitol in Jackson, Miss.

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not a rocket scientist

Bowling Green, KY

#44 Oct 20, 2011
LadiLulu wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, you're mixing it up. "Decency" has nothing to do with science. It is merely a matter of opinion, a reflection of one's culture or society.
You want women and girls to bear their pregnancies, no matter what.
That, my dear,*is* forcing them.
You need to recognize that better education and contraceptive availability is the best way to reduce unwanted pregnancy (therefore abortion) rates.
Arm the girls with healthy, factual, unbiased information.
Then trust them to make the decisions that are consistent with their moral code, their circumstances, their lives.
That is how we address these concerns in a free nation.
I SAID, scientific fact AND common decency... never once did I say they were one in the same.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#45 Oct 20, 2011
LadiLulu wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, she didn't address my request for a feasible, logical, implementable plan to implement this law they are pushing for.
No one ever does.
That's because there's nothing feasible or logical about it.
Very true :) It's sad, how many of them can't seem to think beyond making abortion illegal. Or even think for themselves!

“ABORTION KILLS A HUMAN BEING”

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#46 Oct 20, 2011
not a rocket scientist wrote:
<quoted text>
I SAID, scientific fact AND common decency... never once did I say they were one in the same.
No, you didn't. Pay them no mind. They don't have a brain among them. No morals, and decency is something foreign to them. Very sad indeed. Abortion is morally wrong. Life begins at conception, whether they like it or not. Sad creatures.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#47 Oct 20, 2011
not a rocket scientist wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, it actually IS a scientific fact... I'll look it up for you sometime. And did I even SAY the word DECENCY in the comment where you are trying to refute that decency is scientific fact? Nope, sure didn't. lol
Okay, let me dumb it down for you. You said women should do the 'decent' thing. I said that what the 'decent' thing is, is a matter of opinion. YOU said that it was not, but was scientific fact. I obviously wasn't talking about scientific facts when I said 'opinion', but you were just as obviously confused. There, do you understand now?

You're welcome.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#48 Oct 20, 2011
not a rocket scientist wrote:
<quoted text>
I SAID, scientific fact AND common decency... never once did I say they were one in the same.
Yes, actually you did. When you confused me saying that what the 'decent' thing is, is a matter of opinion, with me saying that it's not a scientific fact that "life begins at conception". You responded to my statement about decency being a matter of opinion by saying it's not, but that it's a scientific fact. Sorry, but it's true, that's what you did.

“...sigh”

Since: Nov 09

Smithtown, NY

#49 Oct 21, 2011
kaylayossi wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you didn't. Pay them no mind. They don't have a brain among them. No morals, and decency is something foreign to them. Very sad indeed. Abortion is morally wrong. Life begins at conception, whether they like it or not. Sad creatures.
Really, kayla?

“...sigh”

Since: Nov 09

Smithtown, NY

#50 Oct 21, 2011
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, actually you did. When you confused me saying that what the 'decent' thing is, is a matter of opinion, with me saying that it's not a scientific fact that "life begins at conception". You responded to my statement about decency being a matter of opinion by saying it's not, but that it's a scientific fact. Sorry, but it's true, that's what you did.
Exactly. She's not exactly communicating her position very well, then complains when she is misunderstood.

“...sigh”

Since: Nov 09

Smithtown, NY

#51 Oct 21, 2011
I'm *still* waiting for their thoughts on how to implement their plan for prosecuting women and girls who have miscarriages.

I wonder why no one is answering this?

It's all well and good to have an opinion, but to make it *law*, one has to actually make sense.

Not happening here, clearly!
not a rocket scientist

Bowling Green, KY

#52 Oct 21, 2011
not a rocket scientist wrote:
<quoted text>
...Simple science and common decency says a life is a life. Period.
Is this the post where I said that science and common decency are one in the same??????

I see an "AND" in between "simple science" and "common decency".

Get it?

Here we go.... on finger #1.... Simple science.

Finger #2.... Common decency.

TWO-SEPARATE-THINGS.

Yes, I agree definitions of decency may vary. THAT is why I added the word "common".

Really hard to follow, I know.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#53 Oct 21, 2011
not a rocket scientist wrote:
<quoted text>
Is this the post where I said that science and common decency are one in the same??????
I see an "AND" in between "simple science" and "common decency".
Get it?
Here we go.... on finger #1.... Simple science.
Finger #2.... Common decency.
TWO-SEPARATE-THINGS.
Yes, I agree definitions of decency may vary. THAT is why I added the word "common".
Really hard to follow, I know.
No, that is not the post.

I'm talking about your next reply, to my post where I said only that 'decency' is a matter of opinion, and your reply was that it's not a matter of opinion, but 'simple scientific fact'.

You are the one having a hard time following. Sorry, but it's true.

“ABORTION KILLS A HUMAN BEING”

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#54 Oct 21, 2011
LadiLulu wrote:
<quoted text>
Really, kayla?
Yes Lulu, for some here, that stands.

“Law unto myself”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#55 Oct 21, 2011
kaylayossi wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes Lulu, for some here, that stands.
I think it is a matter of, the PC side wants to win at any cost (the ends justify the means), but at the same time they expect the PL side to "play fair." While what I may pull around here and what they pull around here is very similar, they don't like when the other side plays according to their own strategies and rules.

“...sigh”

Since: Nov 09

Smithtown, NY

#56 Oct 21, 2011
bluestreak2_0 wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it is a matter of, the PC side wants to win at any cost (the ends justify the means), but at the same time they expect the PL side to "play fair." While what I may pull around here and what they pull around here is very similar, they don't like when the other side plays according to their own strategies and rules.
Incorrect.

I've repeatedly tried to engage in a civil discussion with many PL, but my posts go unanswered. It certainly seems to *me* that many PL are here to provoke and taunt. They have no desire to work towards a solution, or find a commonality.

At least it certainly leads me to believe that.

Why do you think that is?

Since: Apr 07

Nashville, TN

#57 Oct 21, 2011
LadiLulu wrote:
I'm *still* waiting for their thoughts on how to implement their plan for prosecuting women and girls who have miscarriages.
I wonder why no one is answering this?
It's all well and good to have an opinion, but to make it *law*, one has to actually make sense.
Not happening here, clearly!
A miscarriage is a normal event. The woman or girl DID NOT cause it. Therefore they cannot be prosecuted. However when a woman has an abortion she is in fact causing the death of her baby. There's the difference.

My name is Jim Hayden and I AM the next American President
http://www.jimhayden2012.org
not a rocket scientist

Bowling Green, KY

#58 Oct 21, 2011
Bitner Quote"...As for having sex, it is not an implied agreement to carry a pregnancy to term. And what constitutes a 'decent' response to an unplanned pregnancy is a matter of opinion, not fact. And the only opinion that matters is that of the pregnant woman."

My Response "No, it's not about opinion. It's about simple scientific fact."

Okay, I see what you're talking about and how you came to that conclusion. That wasn't how I meant it, but I see how you could take it that way. I apologize.

My comment was meant to be a summation. Because the scientific facts are what it really all boils down to. It is a separate human life that has already been created. Period. It is what it is.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#59 Oct 21, 2011
not a rocket scientist wrote:
Bitner Quote"...As for having sex, it is not an implied agreement to carry a pregnancy to term. And what constitutes a 'decent' response to an unplanned pregnancy is a matter of opinion, not fact. And the only opinion that matters is that of the pregnant woman."
My Response "No, it's not about opinion. It's about simple scientific fact."
Okay, I see what you're talking about and how you came to that conclusion. That wasn't how I meant it, but I see how you could take it that way. I apologize.
My comment was meant to be a summation. Because the scientific facts are what it really all boils down to. It is a separate human life that has already been created. Period. It is what it is.
Apology accepted.

It's not really separate, not at fertilization. It's alive, yes. It's human, yes. And my point stands....science does not say that 'life begins at conception'. Science knows that there was life there already, with the sperm and ovum, the Haploid stage of human reproduction. Life is a continuum, not an event. Fertilization is merely another stage.

You're putting forth a religious belief, and trying to pretend that science backs it up when it doesn't.
not a rocket scientist

Bowling Green, KY

#60 Oct 21, 2011
Did I bring up the bible or scripture? I don't remember... I'll ask you since obviously you're paying more attention! LOL!!

Generally as a rule of thumb I try NOT to bring up scripture or God or the Bible first when discussing on here (Especially on this topic) because I don't want to offend. That is what I STRIVE to do anyway. Of course, sometimes I break my own rules.

How about.... life begins at the embryos conception? Does that say it better? Separate DNA, separate life. Yes, the egg and sperm are alive, but they are not a LIFE.

“...sigh”

Since: Nov 09

Smithtown, NY

#61 Oct 21, 2011
Jim Hayden wrote:
<quoted text>
A miscarriage is a normal event. The woman or girl DID NOT cause it. Therefore they cannot be prosecuted. However when a woman has an abortion she is in fact causing the death of her baby. There's the difference.
...
Prove the pregnancy wasn't lost via a miscarriage.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#62 Oct 21, 2011
not a rocket scientist wrote:
Did I bring up the bible or scripture? I don't remember... I'll ask you since obviously you're paying more attention! LOL!!
Generally as a rule of thumb I try NOT to bring up scripture or God or the Bible first when discussing on here (Especially on this topic) because I don't want to offend. That is what I STRIVE to do anyway. Of course, sometimes I break my own rules.
How about.... life begins at the embryos conception? Does that say it better? Separate DNA, separate life. Yes, the egg and sperm are alive, but they are not a LIFE.
The concept that life begins at conception is a religious belief. It most certainly is not scientific.

Again,'conception' is not a good word for this debate, as it means both fertilization AND implantation. So, one doesn't know whether what is meant is when the sperm fertilizes the ovum, or when the blastocyst implants in the uterus. It would be better to just say 'fertilization', or 'implantation'. Medically, a pregnancy doesn't begin until implantation, and when it is defined as beginning at 'conception', that is what is meant.

No, that's not a better way of putting it, because it is just as incorrect. An embryo begins at fertilization, life was present prior to that point.

All DNA means is that it's human. It is not separate. If it was, it wouldn't need to be gestated for 40 weeks.

If it's alive, it's a life. However, there is a qualitative difference between being alive, being a life, and LIVING a life. A fertilized egg is in no way a person.

Since: Apr 07

Nashville, TN

#63 Oct 21, 2011
LadiLulu wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove the pregnancy wasn't lost via a miscarriage.
You are demonstrating your ignorance.

"Miscarriage or spontaneous abortion is the spontaneous end of a pregnancy at a stage where the embryo or fetus is incapable of surviving independently, generally defined in humans at prior to 20 weeks of gestation. Miscarriage is the most common complication of early pregnancy."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage

Post Abortion Syndrome Symptoms

The symptoms of post-abortion syndrome will not necessarily appear at the same time, nor is any woman likely to experience the entire list. Some may occur immediately after an abortion and others much later. If you can identify with more than two of these symptoms, it could be that you are experiencing post-abortion syndrome.

Below are the symptoms that describe post-abortion syndrome, as described by Dr. Paul and Teri Reisser in their book, Help for the Post-Abortive Woman (now entitled A Solitary Sorrow):

1. Guilt. Guilt is what an individual feels when she has violated her own moral code. For the woman who has come to believe, at some point either before or after the abortion, that she consented to the killing of her unborn child, the burden of guilt is relentless. There is little consolation to offer the woman who has transgressed one of nature's strongest instincts: the protection a mother extends to her young. In fact, many post-abortive women believe that any unhappy events that have occurred since the abortion were inevitable because they "deserve it."

2. Anxiety. Anxiety is defined as an unpleasant emotional and physical state of apprehension that may take the form of tension,(inability to relax, irritability, etc.), physical responses (dizziness, pounding heart, upset stomach, headaches, etc.), worry about the future, difficulty concentrating and disturbed sleep. The conflict between a woman's moral standards and her decision to abort generates much of this anxiety. Very often, she will not relate her anxiety to a post-abortion syndrome abortion, and yet she will unconsciously begin to avoid anything having to do with babies. She may make excuses for not attending a baby shower, skip the baby aisle at the grocery store and so forth.

3. Psychological "numbing." Many post-abortive women maintain a secret vow that they will never again allow themselves to be put in such a vulnerable position. As a result, often without conscious thought, they may work hard to keep their emotions in tight check, preventing themselves from feeling the pain of what has happened, but also greatly hampering their ability to form and maintain close relationships. Cut off even from themselves, they may feel as though their lives were happening to another person.

4. Depression and thoughts of suicide. All of us experience depression from time to time, but the following forms of it are certainly common in women who have experienced abortion:
http://www.ramahinternational.org/post-aborti...

My name is Jim Hayden and I AM the next American President
http://www.jimhayden2012.org

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