Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.

[kaylayossi]

Kenosis wrote:

<quoted text>
Got any evidence to support that BS claim?

You would have to believe in God to understand.

[Kenosis]

kaylayossi wrote:

<quoted text>
You would have to believe in God to understand.

I do, you dolt!

[LadiLulu]

Of course the state with the highest rate of poverty in the entire United States sees fit to force the poor to bear even *more* children that they can ill afford.

How about, instead of prying into peoples' private, intensely personal reproductive decisions, the politicians focus on alleviating the abject misery so many of their residents struggle with to survive each day?

Nah. That would actually take effort, integrity and intellect. Things they clearly loathe or are devoid of.

[Jim Hayden]

http://www.topix.com/mod/uplocal/9MKBUE53JVDH...

[kaylayossi]

Kenosis wrote:

<quoted text>
I do, you dolt!

Well then you are just acting ignorant. Who's the dolt? Not me.

[Jim Hayden]

http://www.topix.com/mod/uplocal/ANNJNVFOP57I...

My name is Jim Hayden and I AM the next American President
http://www.jimhayden2012.org

[not a rocket scientist]

LadiLulu wrote:

Of course the state with the highest rate of poverty in the entire United States sees fit to force the poor to bear even *more* children that they can ill afford.
How about, instead of prying into peoples' private, intensely personal reproductive decisions, the politicians focus on alleviating the abject misery so many of their residents struggle with to survive each day?
Nah. That would actually take effort, integrity and intellect. Things they clearly loathe or are devoid of.

The "decision" was already made, the new life ALREADY made.... what would take more effort or integrity would be to do the right thing instead of ending a life because of money. Is money really a justification to end a human life? And you want to talk about effort, integrity and intellect?

Forgive us if we don't take you seriously.

Simple science and common decency says a life is a life. Period.

[pbfa]

kaylayossi wrote:

<quoted text>
Well then you are just acting ignorant. Who's the dolt? Not me.

You'd have to be promoted from twit/slug to reach dolt status. Good luck with that.

[Jim Hayden]

No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; 5th and 14th Amendments

per·son/&#712;p&#601;r s&#601;n/
Noun:

A human being regarded as an individual.
Blacks Law Dictionary

All human life begins at the moment of conception as scientifically proven.
http://www.all.org/abac/dni003.htm

Scientifically speaking every person's life begins at the money of conception. Life which is protected under both the 5th and 14th Amendments.

Or to put it another way every person has th RIGHT to LIFE from the moment of conception.

My name is Jim Hayden and I AM the next American President
http://www.jimhayden2012.org

[Paddy ORepbaugh]

Not every ejaculation deserves a name.

[LadiLulu]

not a rocket scientist wrote:

<quoted text>
The "decision" was already made, the new life ALREADY made.... what would take more effort or integrity would be to do the right thing instead of ending a life because of money. Is money really a justification to end a human life? And you want to talk about effort, integrity and intellect?
Forgive us if we don't take you seriously.
Simple science and common decency says a life is a life. Period.

Wrong.

The decision to have sex does NOT equal the decision to become pregnant. You are stating that for *you*, sex is for procreation *only*. That's all well and good, but you can't demand that other people feel the same. People are going to have sex. It's really none of your business. That's the reality. I am quite sure you would not want to force millions of people to gestate every pregnancy to term. I'm not entirely sure you would like the outcome. Unless you plan on adopting them all??

One of the problems I see with the "logic" you are using here is practicality. If life begins at conception (it doesn't - the egg and sperm were already alive), then do you plan on policing peoples' pregnancies? Are you aware that anywhere from 25-40% of pregnancies end in miscarriage? How do you plan on proving the pregnancy didn't end in a miscarriage? What sort of evidence will you collect? What will you charge the "offender"? Do you plan on prosecuting 15 year-olds, mothers with 6 kids, etc.?

I have asked these questions for years and never get a feasible, sensible, implementable response. That is because you are not basing your argument on *reason*, but on your gut. Your desire to end abortions. Listen: I get it. I want to end them too. But forcing people to carry unwanted pregnancies is frightening. Very Big-Brotherish. The trick is to help them prevent unwanted pregnancies to *begin* with.

Period.

[Kenosis]

kaylayossi wrote:

<quoted text>
Well then you are just acting ignorant. Who's the dolt? Not me.

Yep, it's all you. You're the dolt for thinking someone who disagrees with you doesn't believe in a God, silly wabbit.

[not a rocket scientist]

LadiLulu wrote:

<quoted text>
Wrong.
The decision to have sex does NOT equal the decision to become pregnant. You are stating that for *you*, sex is for procreation *only*. That's all well and good, but you can't demand that other people feel the same. People are going to have sex. It's really none of your business. That's the reality. I am quite sure you would not want to force millions of people to gestate every pregnancy to term. I'm not entirely sure you would like the outcome. Unless you plan on adopting them all??
One of the problems I see with the "logic" you are using here is practicality. If life begins at conception (it doesn't - the egg and sperm were already alive), then do you plan on policing peoples' pregnancies? Are you aware that anywhere from 25-40% of pregnancies end in miscarriage? How do you plan on proving the pregnancy didn't end in a miscarriage? What sort of evidence will you collect? What will you charge the "offender"? Do you plan on prosecuting 15 year-olds, mothers with 6 kids, etc.?
I have asked these questions for years and never get a feasible, sensible, implementable response. That is because you are not basing your argument on *reason*, but on your gut. Your desire to end abortions. Listen: I get it. I want to end them too. But forcing people to carry unwanted pregnancies is frightening. Very Big-Brotherish. The trick is to help them prevent unwanted pregnancies to *begin* with.
Period.

Wrong, I have sex all the time with my husband with no intention of getting pregnant. BUT, I am fully aware of how the reproductive process works. When you have sex, there is always a possibility of becoming pregnant. It's pretty simple really. Sex could POSSIBLY mean pregnancy. Really, is that so hard to understand???? Simple science and common decency dictates that life begins at conception. It's not about forcing anything on anybody. The only time you can seriously bring up the "forcing" anybody anything is during a rape scenario and that is hardly the norm. It's really such a small percentage of abortions that it's really a mute point.

[Bitner]

not a rocket scientist wrote:

<quoted text>
Wrong, I have sex all the time with my husband with no intention of getting pregnant. BUT, I am fully aware of how the reproductive process works. When you have sex, there is always a possibility of becoming pregnant. It's pretty simple really. Sex could POSSIBLY mean pregnancy. Really, is that so hard to understand???? Simple science and common decency dictates that life begins at conception. It's not about forcing anything on anybody. The only time you can seriously bring up the "forcing" anybody anything is during a rape scenario and that is hardly the norm. It's really such a small percentage of abortions that it's really a mute point.

You are incorrect. Science says nothing about life beginning at 'conception'. Conception is an imprecise term anyway, as it is defined as both fertilization AND implantation. Science says that embryogenesis occurs at conception. What it says about the beginning of life is that life began millenia ago, and has been in continuum ever since. The sperm and the ovum, the very first stage of human reproduction, are also alive.

As for having sex, it is not an implied agreement to carry a pregnancy to term. And what constitutes a 'decent' response to an unplanned pregnancy is a matter of opinion, not fact. And the only opinion that matters is that of the pregnant woman.

[Jim Hayden]

When the government legalizes abortions they are in violation of the 5th and 14th Amendment's Due Process Clause.

By legalizing abortions the government has allowed a person's life to be taken away from them without affording that person their RIGHT to Due Process of Law.

They are not charged with any crime, tried before any jury nor are they given their RIGHT to an appeal before they are executed by a Government sanction.

What is even worse is we are punishing children for the criminal acts of their parents.

Under the Constitution every person has the RIGHT to LIFE from the moment of conception. The Constitution clearly states that No PERSON shall be deprived of LIFE without Due Process of Law. No Congress or state legislature/Assembly has the authority to legislate our rights away.

That is exactly why I will get all Abortion laws abolished by pushing a law which states that all human life begins at the moment of conception.

My name is Jim Hayden and I AM the next American President
http://www.jimhayden2012.org

[not a rocket scientist]

Bitner wrote:

<quoted text>
You are incorrect. Science says nothing about life beginning at 'conception'. Conception is an imprecise term anyway, as it is defined as both fertilization AND implantation. Science says that embryogenesis occurs at conception. What it says about the beginning of life is that life began millenia ago, and has been in continuum ever since. The sperm and the ovum, the very first stage of human reproduction, are also alive.
As for having sex, it is not an implied agreement to carry a pregnancy to term. And what constitutes a 'decent' response to an unplanned pregnancy is a matter of opinion, not fact. And the only opinion that matters is that of the pregnant woman.

No, it's not about opinion. It's about simple scientific fact.

[Bitner]

not a rocket scientist wrote:

<quoted text>
No, it's not about opinion. It's about simple scientific fact.

"Decency" is about scientific fact? Really? Since when?

And no, it's not scientific fact that "life begins at conception". Feel free to prove it is. However, you can't prove 'scientific fact' with anti-choice propaganda sites, so choose wisely.

[LadiLulu]

not a rocket scientist wrote:

<quoted text>
No, it's not about opinion. It's about simple scientific fact.

Actually, you're mixing it up. "Decency" has nothing to do with science. It is merely a matter of opinion, a reflection of one's culture or society.

You want women and girls to bear their pregnancies, no matter what.

That, my dear,*is* forcing them.

You need to recognize that better education and contraceptive availability is the best way to reduce unwanted pregnancy (therefore abortion) rates.

Arm the girls with healthy, factual, unbiased information.

Then trust them to make the decisions that are consistent with their moral code, their circumstances, their lives.

That is how we address these concerns in a free nation.

[LadiLulu]

Bitner wrote:

<quoted text>
"Decency" is about scientific fact? Really? Since when?
And no, it's not scientific fact that "life begins at conception". Feel free to prove it is. However, you can't prove 'scientific fact' with anti-choice propaganda sites, so choose wisely.

Well, she didn't address my request for a feasible, logical, implementable plan to implement this law they are pushing for.

No one ever does.

That's because there's nothing feasible or logical about it.

[not a rocket scientist]

Bitner wrote:

<quoted text>
"Decency" is about scientific fact? Really? Since when?
And no, it's not scientific fact that "life begins at conception". Feel free to prove it is. However, you can't prove 'scientific fact' with anti-choice propaganda sites, so choose wisely.

Yeah, it actually IS a scientific fact... I'll look it up for you sometime. And did I even SAY the word DECENCY in the comment where you are trying to refute that decency is scientific fact? Nope, sure didn't. lol