Life-at-fertilization initiative has ...

Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.

There are 2671 comments on the Centre Daily Times story from Oct 17, 2011, titled Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.. In it, Centre Daily Times reports that:

In this June 6, 2011 file photo, Ezekiel Sowell, 7, right,of Tupelo, Miss., sings during a prayer rally for the Personhood Amendment at the Capitol in Jackson, Miss.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Centre Daily Times.

zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2226 Apr 19, 2012
kaylayossi wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely!! Life begins at conception, so this is a terrific thing!
Life Begins at Fertilization
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:

----------

"Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote."
[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]

----------

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception).
"Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being."
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]

----------

"Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus."
[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]

----------

"Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus."
[Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146]

----------

"Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term 'embryo' is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy."
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]

----------

"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

----------

"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]

http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/em...

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#2227 Apr 19, 2012
zef wrote:
<quoted text>Life Begins at Fertilization
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:
----------
"Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote."
[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]
----------
"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception).
"Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being."
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]
----------
"Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus."
[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]
----------
"Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus."
[Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146]
----------
"Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term 'embryo' is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy."
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]
----------
"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]
----------
"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]
http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/em...
The question is not when an embryo is considered alive, but when it is considered a person.
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2228 Apr 19, 2012
elise in burque wrote:
<quoted text>The question is not when an embryo is considered alive, but when it is considered a person.
To a nihilistic hatemongering bigot, perhaps. The way I understand it is, blacks are not considered a person untill they are 31/32 white. The age of the individual, whether that be adult, or embryo, or whatever is irrelevant. Except, of course, to ageist bigots.
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2229 Apr 19, 2012
elise in burque wrote:
<quoted text>The question is not when an embryo is considered alive, but when it is considered a person.
No, actually the question was, whether life begans at conception.
kaylayossi wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely!! Life begins at conception, so this is a terrific thing!
Kenosis wrote:
<quoted text>
Got any evidence to support that BS claim?
Life Begins at Fertilization
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:

----------

"Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote."
[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]

----------

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception).
"Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being."
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]

----------

"Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus."
[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]

----------

"Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus."
[Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146]

----------

"Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term 'embryo' is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy."
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]

----------

"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

----------

"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]

http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/em...
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2230 Apr 19, 2012
Fertilization is the process whereby two sex cells (gametes) fuse together to create a new individual with genetic potentials derived from both parents. Fertilization accomplishes two separate ends: sex (the combining of genes derived from the two parents) and reproduction (the creation of new organisms). Thus, the first function of fertilization is to transmit genes from parent to offspring, and the second is to initiate in the egg cytoplasm those reactions that permit development to proceed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK10083/

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#2231 Apr 20, 2012
zef wrote:
<quoted text>
To a nihilistic hatemongering bigot, perhaps. The way I understand it is, blacks are not considered a person untill they are 31/32 white. The age of the individual, whether that be adult, or embryo, or whatever is irrelevant. Except, of course, to ageist bigots.
So, if life begins at fertilization, and the age of an individual is irrelevant to that assertion; then why can't an embryo of say, 9 weeks gestation, be born at that time and survive to adulthood?

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#2232 Apr 20, 2012
zef wrote:
Fertilization is the process whereby two sex cells (gametes) fuse together to create a new individual with genetic potentials derived from both parents. Fertilization accomplishes two separate ends: sex (the combining of genes derived from the two parents) and reproduction (the creation of new organisms). Thus, the first function of fertilization is to transmit genes from parent to offspring, and the second is to initiate in the egg cytoplasm those reactions that permit development to proceed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK10083/
Ah, you can Google a subject, and also copy and paste. This is good; it says you can't make your own argument, so you let someone else make your argument. Says a lot about how deep are your beliefs.

Perhaps you may want to consider that when life begins is irrelevant. What is relevant, to the subject of an "individual" is when that "individual" does not need to depend on another "individual" for his/her very own existence.

All the cells in my body, including the sperm in my testicles, are alive. As such, life, per se, began a whole lot earlier than at fertilization, rendering your statement "life begins at fertilization" a farce and a blatant lie. What begins at fertilization is a zygote, which will eventually evolve into an embryo, which at some point will evolve into an organism that will have a greater than 50% chance of life if removed from his/her "home," and which after a period of approximately 40 weeks, will be evicted from his "home" and move into another home as a baby. Not until that time is that baby a person with superior rights to that of his/her mother.

Now, go on with your copy and paste routine, followed closely by your tirade highlighted by name calling and piss poor attempts at personal attacks.
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2233 Apr 20, 2012
Conservative Democrat wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, you can Google a subject, and also copy and paste. This is good; it says you can't make your own argument, so you let someone else make your argument. Says a lot about how deep are your beliefs.
Perhaps you may want to consider that when life begins is irrelevant. What is relevant, to the subject of an "individual" is when that "individual" does not need to depend on another "individual" for his/her very own existence.
All the cells in my body, including the sperm in my testicles, are alive. As such, life, per se, began a whole lot earlier than at fertilization, rendering your statement "life begins at fertilization" a farce and a blatant lie. What begins at fertilization is a zygote, which will eventually evolve into an embryo, which at some point will evolve into an organism that will have a greater than 50% chance of life if removed from his/her "home," and which after a period of approximately 40 weeks, will be evicted from his "home" and move into another home as a baby. Not until that time is that baby a person with superior rights to that of his/her mother.
Now, go on with your copy and paste routine, followed closely by your tirade highlighted by name calling and piss poor attempts at personal attacks.
Disregard all knowledge and science in favor of nothing other than your nihilistic beliefs? Anything it takes to maintain your tyrannical regime of terror? Superior rights? What superior rights?
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2234 Apr 20, 2012
Conservative Democrat wrote:
<quoted text>
So, if life begins at fertilization, and the age of an individual is irrelevant to that assertion; then why can't an embryo of say, 9 weeks gestation, be born at that time and survive to adulthood?
The age of an individual is irrelevant to when that individuals life began?
Why can't embryos survive birth after 9 weeks gestation? I guess for the same reason an infant can't plow the fields, harvest the crops, mill the grain, and bake the bread needed for their survival.

“Clever words”

Since: Sep 09

constellate

#2235 Apr 20, 2012
Conservative Democrat wrote:
<quoted text>
So, if life begins at fertilization, and the age of an individual is irrelevant to that assertion; then why can't an embryo of say, 9 weeks gestation, be born at that time and survive to adulthood?
Hot Stuff!!!

Debating with zef is like talking to a house plant. Actually, better results are achieved with the plant. I doubt highly that he is capable of reading with any semblance of comprehension.

P.S. Hope all is well with you!
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2236 Apr 20, 2012
Life Begins at Fertilization
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:

"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun...
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]

"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]

"The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed within female and male pronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."
[Larsen, William J. Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17]

"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and Müller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]

"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]

"[A]nimal biologists use the term embryo to describe the single cell stage, the two-cell stage, and all subsequent stages up until a time when recognizable humanlike limbs and facial features begin to appear between six to eight weeks after fertilization....
"[A] number of specialists working in the field of human reproduction have suggested that we stop using the word embryo to describe the developing entity that exists for the first two weeks after fertilization. In its place, they proposed the term pre-embryo....
"I'll let you in on a secret. The term pre-embryo has been embraced wholeheartedly by IVF practitioners for reasons that are political, not scientific. The new term is used to provide the illusion that there is something profoundly different between what we nonmedical biologists still call a six-day-old embryo and what we and everyone else call a sixteen-day-old embryo.
"The term pre-embryo is useful in the political arena -- where decisions are made about whether to allow early embryo (now called pre-embryo) experimentation -- as well as in the confines of a doctor's office, where it can be used to allay moral concerns that might be expressed by IVF patients.'Don't worry,' a doctor might say,'it's only pre-embryos that we're manipulating or freezing. They won't turn into real human embryos until after we've put them back into your body.'"
[Silver, Lee M. Remaking Eden: Cloning and Beyond in a Brave New World. New York: Avon Books, 1997, p. 39]

http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/em...
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2237 Apr 20, 2012
Life Begins at Fertilization
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:
"Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus."
[Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146]
"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]
----------
"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun..."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]
"The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down."
[Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63]
----------
"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#2238 Apr 20, 2012
zef wrote:
<quoted text>
Disregard all knowledge and science in favor of nothing other than your nihilistic beliefs? Anything it takes to maintain your tyrannical regime of terror? Superior rights? What superior rights?
Unlike you, I don't disregard ALL knowledge and science. I regard the fact that a zygote forms at fertilization, and that this zygote will eventually evolve into an embryo, and that this embryo will eventually evolve into a fetus, and that this fetus will eventually attain something called viability (which is when the lungs have developed sufficient surfactant to be able to make the O2/CO2 exchange if the fetus was born at that time, giving the fetus a minimum of 50% chance of life outside the womb), and that this fetus will, at the approximate end of a 40 week pregnancy, will evolve, by expulsion from the uterus, whether via vaginal delivery, or C-section, will evolve into what is known as a baby.

What part of knowledge and science have I ignored? It's your ilk who conveniently ignores the point of viability.

You ask what superior rights? I answer, albeit with a few questions that even a 6 year old can answer.

1- Upon who does the zygote/embryo/fetus, a.k.a., ZEF relies for its very existence? Maybe I ignored this common knowledge fact of science, but I do believe the fetus relies on its mother.

2- Who is born and who is not born?

3- What is the expressed language of part 1 of the 14th Amendment?

4- Who are citizens of the United States, whom are also recognized to have the rights contained within the Bill of Rights and the Articles of the Constitution?

5- Are you aware that in the sacred teachings of the religion that is the basis of all Christian faiths, including, but not limited to Catholicism (that will be Judaism), an abortion is MANDATORY, at any stage of the pregnancy, except for if during the birth process the body of the fetus is mostly out (I recall from Rabbinical teachings that number is 3/4ths of the way out), IF the pregnancy threatens the mother's life? Do you know why? Because G-d dictated that the life of the mother should never be held secondary to the life of the unborn.

6- Are you aware that in the scriptures, G-d, speaking through the prophet Hosea, gave a mandate to sash little ones to the ground and rip the bellies of pregnant women? See Hosea 13:16

Now, you tell me; what part of ALL knowledge, and/or science, have I disregarded?

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#2239 Apr 20, 2012
zef wrote:
<quoted text>The age of an individual is irrelevant to when that individuals life began?
Are you in the habit of contradicting yourself by asking a question about a statement YOU made, or is it that you're mind challenged?

Here's your statement:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/abortion/T1PS...

I suppose your problem stems from the obvious fact that you can't make your own argument, and you simply can't sort out your sources in that pea sized brain of yours, so you will, eventually (or more often than not), will trip over your own bullshit.
zef wrote:
Why can't embryos survive birth after 9 weeks gestation? I guess for the same reason an infant can't plow the fields, harvest the crops, mill the grain, and bake the bread needed for their survival.
Look up ZEF; oooops, you missed the point again. Sorry.

It's axiomatic that an infant can't plow the fields, harvest the crops, mill the grain, and bake the bread needed for their survival. But, there is one thing an infant can do, that a 9 week gestation fetus can't do. Now, follow the bouncing ball and repeat after me: B R E A T H E.

Did you get it? Or should I draw you a picture in crayon and connect all the little dots????

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#2240 Apr 20, 2012
Junket wrote:
<quoted text>
Hot Stuff!!!
Debating with zef is like talking to a house plant. Actually, better results are achieved with the plant. I doubt highly that he is capable of reading with any semblance of comprehension.
P.S. Hope all is well with you!
Pippy!!!! How are you darling???

Ah, ZEF is an overgrown fetus that was born with only 90% lung function and suffered the fate of a week long power outage when he was on the respirator. In short, he's brain damaged. So, I guess you're right and it would be better to talk to a plant.

“Clever words”

Since: Sep 09

constellate

#2241 Apr 20, 2012
Conservative Democrat wrote:
<quoted text>
Pippy!!!! How are you darling???
Ah, ZEF is an overgrown fetus that was born with only 90% lung function and suffered the fate of a week long power outage when he was on the respirator. In short, he's brain damaged. So, I guess you're right and it would be better to talk to a plant.
Tickety boo on my end, dear friend.
Get a tomato plant:

"...recent study by the Royal Horticultural Society found that tomato plants do respond to the human voice."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/55...

xo
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2242 Apr 20, 2012
Conservative Democrat wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlike you, I don't disregard ALL knowledge and science. I regard the fact that a zygote forms at fertilization, and that this zygote will eventually evolve into an embryo, and that this embryo will eventually evolve into a fetus, and that this fetus will eventually attain something called viability (which is when the lungs have developed sufficient surfactant to be able to make the O2/CO2 exchange if the fetus was born at that time, giving the fetus a minimum of 50% chance of life outside the womb), and that this fetus will, at the approximate end of a 40 week pregnancy, will evolve, by expulsion from the uterus, whether via vaginal delivery, or C-section, will evolve into what is known as a baby.
What part of knowledge and science have I ignored? It's your ilk who conveniently ignores the point of viability.
You ask what superior rights? I answer, albeit with a few questions that even a 6 year old can answer.
1- Upon who does the zygote/embryo/fetus, a.k.a., ZEF relies for its very existence? Maybe I ignored this common knowledge fact of science, but I do believe the fetus relies on its mother.
2- Who is born and who is not born?
3- What is the expressed language of part 1 of the 14th Amendment?
4- Who are citizens of the United States, whom are also recognized to have the rights contained within the Bill of Rights and the Articles of the Constitution?
5- Are you aware that in the sacred teachings of the religion that is the basis of all Christian faiths, including, but not limited to Catholicism (that will be Judaism), an abortion is MANDATORY, at any stage of the pregnancy, except for if during the birth process the body of the fetus is mostly out (I recall from Rabbinical teachings that number is 3/4ths of the way out), IF the pregnancy threatens the mother's life? Do you know why? Because G-d dictated that the life of the mother should never be held secondary to the life of the unborn.
6- Are you aware that in the scriptures, G-d, speaking through the prophet Hosea, gave a mandate to sash little ones to the ground and rip the bellies of pregnant women? See Hosea 13:16
Now, you tell me; what part of ALL knowledge, and/or science, have I disregarded?
A human beings life begins with conception. What we choose to call that human being at that time of their existence, baby, zygote, daughter, son, embryo, or whatever, has nothing to do with their being human. What you choose to call anyone or anything in no way affects who or what they are. Humans don't evolve into anything. Humans are always human throughout their entire lifespan. Humans mature continuously and constantly as they age. At any moment of individuals lifespan they are more mature than the moment before. Your obsession with who is born or isn't is purely your own personal prejudice. As is your obsession with who is 'vialble" and who isn't. Why not place your efforts on something worthwhile like the importance of nazi death camps, and the importance of nazi rights, and the importance of who is a jew and who is a person?

Constitution of the United States
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

posterity
n
1. future or succeeding generations
2. all of one's descendants

all
adjective
2. the whole number of (used in referring to individuals or particulars, taken collectively): all students.

Rights of U.S. Citizens
•Vote in federal elections
•Serve on a jury
•Bring family members to the United States
•Obtain citizenship for children born abroad
•Travel with a U.S. passport
•Run for federal office
•Become eligible for federal grants and scholarship
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2243 Apr 20, 2012
Conservative Democrat wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you in the habit of contradicting yourself by asking a question about a statement YOU made, or is it that you're mind challenged?
Here's your statement:
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/abortion/T1PS...
I suppose your problem stems from the obvious fact that you can't make your own argument, and you simply can't sort out your sources in that pea sized brain of yours, so you will, eventually (or more often than not), will trip over your own bullshit.
<quoted text>
Look up ZEF; oooops, you missed the point again. Sorry.
It's axiomatic that an infant can't plow the fields, harvest the crops, mill the grain, and bake the bread needed for their survival. But, there is one thing an infant can do, that a 9 week gestation fetus can't do. Now, follow the bouncing ball and repeat after me: B R E A T H E.
Did you get it? Or should I draw you a picture in crayon and connect all the little dots????
The arguement was about who is a person and who isn't. I said the age of an individual is irrelevant to who is a person and who isn't. Why don't you learn the english language and stop making false claims. You sanctimonious half-wit.
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2244 Apr 20, 2012
Right to life is a phrase that describes the belief that a human being has an essential right to live, particularly that a human being has the right not to be killed by another human being.

Life Begins at Fertilization
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:
"Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus."
[Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146]
"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun..."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]
"The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down."
[Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63]

"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2245 Apr 20, 2012
Conservative Democrat wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you in the habit of contradicting yourself by asking a question about a statement YOU made, or is it that you're mind challenged?
Here's your statement:
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/abortion/T1PS...
I suppose your problem stems from the obvious fact that you can't make your own argument, and you simply can't sort out your sources in that pea sized brain of yours, so you will, eventually (or more often than not), will trip over your own bullshit.
<quoted text>
Look up ZEF; oooops, you missed the point again. Sorry.
It's axiomatic that an infant can't plow the fields, harvest the crops, mill the grain, and bake the bread needed for their survival. But, there is one thing an infant can do, that a 9 week gestation fetus can't do. Now, follow the bouncing ball and repeat after me: B R E A T H E.
Did you get it? Or should I draw you a picture in crayon and connect all the little dots????
Unfortunately not all infants are capable of breathing. The question eveyone should be asking, however, is why on earth do you expect infants to feed, clothe, and shelter themselves, or die.
Oxygenation, through oxygen supplementation by head hood or nasal cannula, or even continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) or mechanical ventilation. Infant respiratory distress syndrome is the leading cause of death in preterm infants, and the main treatments are CPAP, in addition to administering surfactant and stabilizing the blood sugar, blood salts, and blood pressure.

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