Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 71939 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

former res

Cheshire, CT

#71570 Apr 14, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are excused, my son
and yes, I take a nuanced view.
Until Santorum came around, Catholics were probably not considered Christian by the Right.
I used to wince every time I heard his name or thought of him.

But ever since his "google problem" happened, I smile.
(That's how he refers to it...)

Thank you Dan Savage.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#71571 Apr 14, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Not the first time, or the last time, that attitudes rather than science led to change in legislation. And yes, I believe in abiding by the law. Which is why it is best to nip this bud while we still can (chuckle..) before it comes a law.
Always wanting to nip things off!

:))

If you like parallels though, I see one there - not perfect of course.

So only fight your own battles, hmmmmm. Doesn't sound very noble. I believe strongly in gay rights but am not gay (despite what Joel and Huggy say).(BTW, I'm also against slavery!)

But the snake folks have a religious practice (no doubt near and dear to their hearts) which isn't really hurting the snakes but some of the PETA types really can go a little too far....and you wouldn't go bullshxt on the snake activists??(As they are attempting to enact the law...)

Speaking of the law, I usually don't stop for stop signs in parking lots (if no other traffic). Someone told me they aren't really enforceable on private property. Regardless, don't care.

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#71572 Apr 14, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
The word co-operation indicates an equality of processes and of individuals when in actuality there's nothing like equality in the manifested sense.
Equality is not a law of nature.
No two things are equal in every way.
At the same time I must say that each one is important in his own aptitude and so an interactive society is one that reflects the natural law of unity in variety which then brings us to the logical conclusion that slavery is an aberration.
Each person much be equal before the law, otherwise the law is worthless.

You challenged me for an example and I gave one. Your answer is it's an aberration?
Next time don't challenge unless you're prepared to apologize. Or does the Buddha forbid that?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#71573 Apr 14, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Not the first time, or the last time, that attitudes rather than science led to change in legislation.......
ps on this one:

Perhaps you hadn't had your morning tea yet, but.....

Have you forgotten that 95% of folks are having it done (not for religious reasons) for supposed health benefits and docs routinely /automatically did it and were advising new parents to let them do it. Lest you be a bad parent and your little boy's thing fell off.

But then evidence showed that with good hygiene, this wasn't necessary or beneficial. Like removing tonsils. Not done routinely anymore. They're part of the immune system.

My wife's pediatrician back in the 60s-70s wanted to remove the tonsils on every kid prophylactically. Her mom said no.

(What a another beautiful day here in CT or what?!!)
former res

Cheshire, CT

#71574 Apr 14, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Brit milah (circumcision) is THE core initiation ceremony for males into the Jewish tribe. I dont believe it is proper to screw around with the fundamentals. And even more importantly, I fail to see a reason for why one would should even consider......
I understand the ritual has religious significance. That's not my question though.

In the past it seems you've been a little more cavalier about the details of the faith, or free-wheeling, liberal - not sure the best way to say it but I think you get my point.

More into the mediation, the cerebral aspects - not so much bound by scripture. More about the "oneness" with nature etc......

But it seems you're more traditional then you let on.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71575 Apr 14, 2014
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>

Each person much be equal before the law, otherwise the law is worthless.
That's a case of equal opportunities in public life which in other words means providing a level playing for all.

Yes, everyone is equal before the law since one and the same law of inquiry applies to all so as to ensure fairness in investigation and in pronouncing the verdict but at the same time please remember that no one is equal to another in personality nor in psychological propensities nor in genetic makeup nor in outlook on life.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71576 Apr 14, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
ps on this one:
Perhaps you hadn't had your morning tea yet, but.....
Have you forgotten that 95% of folks are having it done (not for religious reasons) for supposed health benefits and docs routinely /automatically did it and were advising new parents to let them do it. Lest you be a bad parent and your little boy's thing fell off.
But then evidence showed that with good hygiene, this wasn't necessary or beneficial. Like removing tonsils. Not done routinely anymore. They're part of the immune system.
My wife's pediatrician back in the 60s-70s wanted to remove the tonsils on every kid prophylactically. Her mom said no.
(What a another beautiful day here in CT or what?!!)
My focus was on the implications of a ban of the religious expression of Jews. If nonJews want to adopt a practice and apply it out of context, well, thats just another example of the normal bizarreness of the world we live in. Like I said before, we see the same thing when nonJews buy Kosher.

I wont weigh in whether nonJews are foolish for circumcising their newborns. I imagine they do it perceived hygienic reasons, strongly rooted in their culture. Perceptions are stronger than objective evidence.

My tonsils were never removed, and I have regretted it for many years. Plenty of infections.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71577 Apr 14, 2014
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>

You challenged me for an example and I gave one. Your answer is it's an aberration?

Next time don't challenge unless you're prepared to apologize. Or does the Buddha forbid that?
Buddha did not promote slavery. He was all for universal freedom.

You didn't understand my post.

Expected, in view of your ordinary intellectual capacities.

I explained the difference between co-operation (which implies a sameness of all the participating agencies which is impossible since equality is not an ingrained law of nature) and interaction (which is certainly the case since people of diverse aptitudes can contribute their bit in a harmonious manner to get a work done or to make society functional).

Since, each person is unique in his aptitude thus each person has a rightful place in the societal pyramid and as such it makes no sense for the powerful to forcibly enslave the weaker sections of society - the natural law is "unity in variety" and so in this sense slavery is a perversity.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71578 Apr 14, 2014
correction

providing a level playing FIELD for all.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71579 Apr 14, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Always wanting to nip things off!
:))
If you like parallels though, I see one there - not perfect of course.
So only fight your own battles, hmmmmm. Doesn't sound very noble. I believe strongly in gay rights but am not gay (despite what Joel and Huggy say).(BTW, I'm also against slavery!)

But the snake folks have a religious practice (no doubt near and dear to their hearts) which isn't really hurting the snakes but some of the PETA types really can go a little too far....and you wouldn't go bullshxt on the snake activists??(As they are attempting to enact the law...)
Speaking of the law, I usually don't stop for stop signs in parking lots (if no other traffic). Someone told me they aren't really enforceable on private property. Regardless, don't care.
One has to expend energy promoting gay rights so that a segment of the populations is allowed to lawfully experience the same opportunities as the rest of us. I dont see the parallel with circumcision. I dont get what rights, in the absence of medical impacts, that the newborn are being deprived on. I dont buy the cosmetic/mutilation argument - besides from ear piercing, we kill skin cells and change our natural beauty whenever we apply makeup. I dont buy the consent arguments - we vaccine newborns without their consent, we dress them up without their consent, we have power of attorney as guardians....

There is no reason that I wouldnt go against Peta. I agree with your logic. But one picks their battles, and the best battles to pick are those that affect your home.

Who erected the stop sign? Where does it come from? On the same subject, I was always hazy on the subject of emergency lights on top of vehicles. Not only police and ambulances, but also private tow trucks, and other construction vehicles. Can anyone put a light on their vehicle?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71580 Apr 14, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand the ritual has religious significance. That's not my question though.
In the past it seems you've been a little more cavalier about the details of the faith, or free-wheeling, liberal - not sure the best way to say it but I think you get my point.
More into the mediation, the cerebral aspects - not so much bound by scripture. More about the "oneness" with nature etc......
But it seems you're more traditional then you let on.
The religion has a peoplehood component. There are core traditions that define the people (and the religion). Without the tradition, there is no people or religion. Brit happens to be one of them, thats all.(knowledge of Hebrew is another one) We all have our lines in the sand.

I never said I wasnt traditional. In fact, I consider myself very traditional. Often I note that the traditional is more expansive and more liberal than one might initially assume with limited education or exposure. And I direct that observation not only to nonJews like you, but Jews that have grown up in sequestered experiences.

Scripture is always at the root of the tradition, of course. But there are layers and layers of tradition regarding their implementation. Its not so simple as literal application. The text references circumcision but provides no details regarding the elaborate ceremony that accompanies it. That came later. Different Jewish movements differ as to the weight and appropriateness of details such as these, but they all agree with the textual source of the tradition.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71581 Apr 14, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>

Expected, in view of your ordinary intellectual capacities.
You should reflect, in the tradition of Bhudda, why you have this drive to create arrogance by separating yourself and pretending to elevate yourself from everyone else.

What does arrogance get you? Does it make you feel special? At what cost? Why is it so important to you to feel special? Can;t you get this is other ways without demeaning others?

When you demean others, how are you not demeaning yourself?

Much to reflect - consider it a gift from Bhudda

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#71582 Apr 14, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Buddha did not promote slavery. He was all for universal freedom.
You didn't understand my post.
Expected, in view of your ordinary intellectual capacities.
I explained the difference between co-operation (which implies a sameness of all the participating agencies which is impossible since equality is not an ingrained law of nature) and interaction (which is certainly the case since people of diverse aptitudes can contribute their bit in a harmonious manner to get a work done or to make society functional).
Since, each person is unique in his aptitude thus each person has a rightful place in the societal pyramid and as such it makes no sense for the powerful to forcibly enslave the weaker sections of society - the natural law is "unity in variety" and so in this sense slavery is a perversity.
What to fail to understand or are deliberately being obtuse about is the ability of Buddhists to engage in abhorrent behavior like slavery or violence. If as you say their teachings do not support such values what do you think has propelled them to act in a such a manner?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#71583 Apr 14, 2014
This guy in Kansas sounds like a real sweetheart. Being described as a "white supremacist" so I guess he's an equal opportunity hater.

In 7th grade when they taught us about the KKK, they said the letters also stood for "Kikes, koons and Katholics" (think anti-establishment protestors spelling "Amerika" to show disrespect).

The news says they are still "gathering information" on whether this is hate crime. Bet I know how this one turns out.

Why is it that so many losers want to blame others for their lot in life?
Sucks. The church burnings, the anti-immigration crowd, homophobes and so on. And even the ones who say "makers vs the takers." Blaming the most vulnerable among us.

Peaceful Passover to all. We've already made up the Easter basket to bring up to the in-laws this weekend. Not that any of us are religious. Some good chocolate. Solid Dove bunnies - none of those crappy hollow ones!
KryptonII

Columbus, OH

#71584 Apr 14, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, in Saudi Arabia -- you can get the death penalty for "preaching" anything except Islam.
Jews don't preach -- we don't go knocking on people's doors and asking them if who they pray to or how they do it.
Most of us find it offensive and impolite.
Obama hates Israel and America because he's a filthy muslim pig. FINALLY, the world is waking up to the fact we have a terrorist in the White House.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#71585 Apr 14, 2014
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>

What to fail to understand or are deliberately being obtuse about is the ability of Buddhists to engage in abhorrent behavior like slavery or violence. If as you say their teachings do not support such values what do you think has propelled them to act in a such a manner?
LOL.

Again, your low intelligence has failed you.

To follow the sublime teachings of the Buddha, one has to be some kind of a yogi or at the least one has to be a person of higher sensibilities.

Buddha's teachings are a practice, not a ritual nor an mental assent.

In a previous post of yesterday, I said that Buddhists can violate the teachings of the Buddha given their personality defects and primal passions.

However, I made it clear to you that Buddha did not teach violence, war, slavery, human sacrifice, threats, abuses, curses, animal sacrifice, stoning disobedient sons to death, bashing babies against rocks, raping the women of prisoners of war, genital mutilation that destroys thousands of sensitive nerve endings thereby unbalancing the chakras/brain centers, cannibalism, tribalism, fanaticism, death for apostasy and other evils.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#71586 Apr 14, 2014
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>

What do you think has propelled them to act in a such a manner?
Personality flaws/animal passions.

To follow the sublime teachings of the Buddha, one has to be some kind of a yogi or at the least one has to be a person of higher sensibilities.

To attain to the Nirvana as taught by the Buddha, one has to be an advanced yogi whose lower nature (based on personality flaws/animal passions) has been transformed or sublimated through intense meditative practices using certain mantras which finally result in the activation of certain higher states of consciousness in the mental, emotional, physical and subconscient nature of a person.

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#71588 Apr 14, 2014
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Personality flaws/animal passions.
To follow the sublime teachings of the Buddha, one has to be some kind of a yogi or at the least one has to be a person of higher sensibilities.
To attain to the Nirvana as taught by the Buddha, one has to be an advanced yogi whose lower nature (based on personality flaws/animal passions) has been transformed or sublimated through intense meditative practices using certain mantras which finally result in the activation of certain higher states of consciousness in the mental, emotional, physical and subconscient nature of a person.
So Buddhism is no different than any other belief that has flawed adherents.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71589 Apr 14, 2014
former res wrote:
This guy in Kansas sounds like a real sweetheart. Being described as a "white supremacist" so I guess he's an equal opportunity hater.
In 7th grade when they taught us about the KKK, they said the letters also stood for "Kikes, koons and Katholics" (think anti-establishment protestors spelling "Amerika" to show disrespect).
The news says they are still "gathering information" on whether this is hate crime. Bet I know how this one turns out.
Why is it that so many losers want to blame others for their lot in life?
Sucks. The church burnings, the anti-immigration crowd, homophobes and so on. And even the ones who say "makers vs the takers." Blaming the most vulnerable among us.
Peaceful Passover to all. We've already made up the Easter basket to bring up to the in-laws this weekend. Not that any of us are religious. Some good chocolate. Solid Dove bunnies - none of those crappy hollow ones!
Yep, the guy hated Jews, but managed to kill 2 Christians (and 1 Jew).

Dove is one of the few (or perhaps the only) mass produced American brands of chocolate that I like.

We already colored our egg (turns out egg coloring is also a sephardic Jewish custom)

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71590 Apr 14, 2014
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>

So Buddhism is no different than any other belief that has flawed adherents.
Unlike the barbaric teachings of the Hebrew patriarchs, Jesus, Krishna or Muhammad, the teachings of the Buddha are lofty.

The followers of the Buddha are the usual riff raff sections of humanity who have more than their fair share of animal passions and personality flaws.

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