Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72023 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

former res

Cheshire, CT

#52813 May 19, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
If you have faith in an obligation which is not there you are just running on faith dear.
Can you honestly say you are getting absolutely no services or value from the gov't?

Granted, they get much more for the tax dollars in Europe, but we do get something.
Voluntarist

United States

#52814 May 19, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
"So it is not a question of contract, its the fundamental question of whether you recognize our form of government or not. So far, the vibes I get from you is that you do not. "
Do you recognize our form of gov't or not?
Our? who are you referring to?
Government doesn't exist, just a group of men and women.
Voluntarist

United States

#52815 May 19, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you honestly say you are getting absolutely no services or value from the gov't?
Granted, they get much more for the tax dollars in Europe, but we do get something.
It's not the service that I have a problem with it is the manner by which it is paid for.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#52816 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Our? who are you referring to?
Government doesn't exist, just a group of men and women.
Well, since you dont recognize our form of government, you loose the moral authority to criticize our tax system.

Because what you are in opposition isn't really our tax system but our form of government.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#52817 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not the service that I have a problem with it is the manner by which it is paid for.
Of which you do not have any authority to take issue with, being that you do not recognize our government.

Why do we have to clarify your thinking for you?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52818 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Our? who are you referring to?
Government doesn't exist, just a group of men and women.
I'll take that as a no.

Are you an American?

"Government doesn't exist" you say.

What are all those big buildings in DC?

There is no Supreme Court? Congress? Administration?

What do you mean it "doesn't exist?"
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52819 May 20, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you honestly say you are getting absolutely no services or value from the gov't?
Granted, they get much more for the tax dollars in Europe, but we do get something.
Doesn't the fact that you are getting some value in return
create an obligation on your part for compensation?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52820 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Our? who are you referring to?
Government doesn't exist, just a group of men and women.
Do you generally obey traffic laws when driving?

Why or why not?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52821 May 20, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, since you dont recognize our form of government, you loose the moral authority to criticize our tax system.
Because what you are in opposition isn't really our tax system but our form of government.
Excellent point.

It would be like me judging the inner workings of the
Catholic Church.

I have no standing. No stake. No skin in the game.

You've saved me a lot of back-and-forth going forward.
Voluntarist

United States

#52822 May 20, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll take that as a no.
Are you an American?
"Government doesn't exist" you say.
What are all those big buildings in DC?
There is no Supreme Court? Congress? Administration?
What do you mean it "doesn't exist?"
Buildings and people, your point?
Voluntarist

United States

#52823 May 20, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you generally obey traffic laws when driving?
Why or why not?
I don't know all of the traffic laws, do you?

I travel in a courteous manner, people stop at intersections to avoid accidents not because there are some words on paper.
Voluntarist

United States

#52824 May 20, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Of which you do not have any authority to take issue with, being that you do not recognize our government.
Why do we have to clarify your thinking for you?
I have authority to take issue because you are making a claim of obligation as if there is some sort on my part.
Voluntarist

United States

#52825 May 20, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent point.
It would be like me judging the inner workings of the
Catholic Church.
I have no standing. No stake. No skin in the game.
You've saved me a lot of back-and-forth going forward.
Not true, the catholic church isn't imposing their faith on you by threatening you with a cage abducted gun.
Voluntarist

United States

#52826 May 20, 2013
*& a gun

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#52827 May 20, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent point.
It would be like me judging the inner workings of the
Catholic Church.
I have no standing. No stake. No skin in the game.
You've saved me a lot of back-and-forth going forward.
Every so often I feel a certain level of faint satisfaction at completing a line of logic.

I hope it is not wasted.

But besides from recognizing his hypocrisy, he needs to understand what his real point of contention is, if for no other reason than to help clarify his position so as to give it some philosophic legitimacy.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#52828 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
I have authority to take issue because you are making a claim of obligation as if there is some sort on my part.
Do you vote?

If you do, thats where the obligation is. You buy into our system. Our system is a representative democracy - meaning that others make decisions for us as elected officials.

If you dont vote, then you might have a faint argument. But very faint, as you still consume our services.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52829 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Buildings and people, your point?
You stated that, "Government doesn't exist..."

What organization built and maintains these buildings?

Who are all these people on the public payroll?

Who inspects the meat you eat?

Who is requesting tax dollars from you?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52830 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know all of the traffic laws, do you?
I travel in a courteous manner, people stop at intersections to avoid accidents not because there are some words on paper.
I didn't ask if you knew ALL the traffic laws.(Mr. Straw Man..)

I asked if you generally follow them? We all had to pass an exam showing basic understanding of these laws.

Would you speed if safe but knowing PoPo with radar were in the area? Why or why not?(Example - 3 in the morning on I95 - no traffic)
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52831 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Not true, the catholic church isn't imposing their faith on you by threatening you with a cage abducted gun.
Once you agree you don't recognize the authority/existence of the Federal gov't, why does this not make the rest of the discussion moot?

Any point in our continuing this discussion?

Why or why not?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52832 May 20, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
...If you dont vote, then you might have a faint argument. But very faint, as you still consume our services.
If so, I'd like to hear the argument for not voting, esp when already complaining about a lack of valid representation.

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