Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

There are 336946 comments on the Newsday story from Jan 22, 2008, titled Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision. In it, Newsday reports that:

Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Bongo

United States

#321604 Feb 5, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, I can see both sides and I think each side was trying to do the right thing. You on the other hand have it all sewed up as a political conspiracy to take away the dead woman's rights. You have also determined that the family was not covered by insurance even though both worked for the state or local government and all citizens are required by law to be insured. You make a lot of assumptions.
You stink.
grumpy

Bridgeport, CT

#321605 Feb 5, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, I can see both sides and I think each side was trying to do the right thing. You on the other hand have it all sewed up as a political conspiracy to take away the dead woman's rights. You have also determined that the family was not covered by insurance even though both worked for the state or local government and all citizens are required by law to be insured. You make a lot of assumptions.
How can you say both sides were trying to do the right thing!
The hospital was trying to generate income and avoid legal problems. The family was trying to preserve the quality of life of the family.(unless someone would have adopted the baby???)
Ink

Havertown, PA

#321606 Feb 5, 2014
not a playa1965 wrote:
<quoted text>Not to mention, that what 'care' she received was not "Keeping her alive," anyway....she was on a vent, not full-on life support....and she was DECOMPOSING around that political football of a fetus.
One wonders how this will all affect her living child, 16 month old Mateo, as his mom's story made national news: Her corpse deteriorated for public consumption, and advancement in the career of some politician in Texas. How will this be beneficial to HIM?
(Well, that only matters, if one concerns oneself with something other than FETUSES.)
How can one decompose while her heart is beating?

“Truly Pro-Life”

Since: Nov 11

Proudly Pro-choice

#321607 Feb 5, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
How can one decompose while her heart is beating?
Brain death is defined as an irreversible absence of brain function. Unlike all other tissue, the central nervous system (comprised of the brain, brainstem, and spinal cord) does not have the capacity to heal or regenerate. Once it is dead, it stays dead. As long as a brain dead patient is kept on a ventilator, the heart will still beat, the lungs will still function, the kidneys will still make urine, and muscle reflexes will still exist. But without brain function, the person is gone.

Physiologically it is the same as cardiac death where the heart stops and all organs then fail. "Brain dead" is physiologically (and legally) exactly the same as "dead". And no court order can change that.

Patients that are on life support, and brain dead, begin to decompose slightly: they often slough off their intestinal linings, their skin can become purplish and swollen, their eyes are sunken and cloudy,their kidneys stop functioning, etc. Their heart may be pumping but the majority are not perfusing their tissues well and there is cellular death, but no cellular regeneration.

“Shoot for the stars”

Since: Dec 10

Planet Earth

#321608 Feb 5, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
How can one decompose while her heart is beating?
Hopefully this will help you understand. The body starts shutting down.

Compliments of:
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/brain-death/Page...

Confirmation of death

In the past confirming death was straightforward death occurs when the heart stops beating and a person is no longer breathing. In turn, the lack of oxygen as a result of no blood flow will quickly lead to the permanent loss of brain stem function.
Now confirmation of death can be more complex as it is possible to keep the heart beating after the brain stem has permanently stopped functioning. This is as a result of keeping someone on a ventilator thereby allowing the body (and the heart) to be artificially oxygenated.
But once the brain stem has permanently stopped functioning there is no way to reverse this and the heart will eventually stop beating even if a ventilator has been used.
To save family and friends from unnecessary suffering, once there is clear evidence that brain death has occurred the ventilator is turned off.
Da Pope

New Britain, CT

#321609 Feb 5, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
How can one decompose while her heart is beating?
I think all Christian women should be rounded up in their parish at least once a month and questioned about what they're doing sexually and reproductively by their priest. They should answer questions about how often they have sexual relations with their husbands and if they're only having sex to procreate and the priest can do a finger up exam to make sure everything up in your privates is doing ok. When a woman gets pregnant the priest should accompany her to all prenatal exams to make sure all is going according to god's will. The priest should also be in the delivery room sitting right next to the obstetrician and then the priest should get to be in the room with the new mother supervising the breast feeding making sure all is going according to god's plan.
Ink

Havertown, PA

#321610 Feb 5, 2014
Earth Child 1 wrote:
<quoted text>Hopefully this will help you understand. The body starts shutting down.
Compliments of:
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/brain-death/Page...
Confirmation of death
In the past confirming death was straightforward death occurs when the heart stops beating and a person is no longer breathing. In turn, the lack of oxygen as a result of no blood flow will quickly lead to the permanent loss of brain stem function.
Now confirmation of death can be more complex as it is possible to keep the heart beating after the brain stem has permanently stopped functioning. This is as a result of keeping someone on a ventilator thereby allowing the body (and the heart) to be artificially oxygenated.
But once the brain stem has permanently stopped functioning there is no way to reverse this and the heart will eventually stop beating even if a ventilator has been used.
To save family and friends from unnecessary suffering, once there is clear evidence that brain death has occurred the ventilator is turned off.
There was no question as to whether she was brain dead. She was. Decomposition was the point.
Da Pope

New Britain, CT

#321611 Feb 5, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
How can one decompose while her heart is beating?
Since you're experiencing this you tell us.
Ink

Havertown, PA

#321612 Feb 5, 2014
not a playa1965 wrote:
<quoted text>Brain death is defined as an irreversible absence of brain function. Unlike all other tissue, the central nervous system (comprised of the brain, brainstem, and spinal cord) does not have the capacity to heal or regenerate. Once it is dead, it stays dead. As long as a brain dead patient is kept on a ventilator, the heart will still beat, the lungs will still function, the kidneys will still make urine, and muscle reflexes will still exist. But without brain function, the person is gone.
Physiologically it is the same as cardiac death where the heart stops and all organs then fail. "Brain dead" is physiologically (and legally) exactly the same as "dead". And no court order can change that.
Patients that are on life support, and brain dead, begin to decompose slightly: they often slough off their intestinal linings, their skin can become purplish and swollen, their eyes are sunken and cloudy,their kidneys stop functioning, etc. Their heart may be pumping but the majority are not perfusing their tissues well and there is cellular death, but no cellular regeneration.
Not everyone would agree with your statement. I would like to know if that is your own idea.

Evidence is offered by Dr. Alan Shewmon, Professor of Pediatric Neurology at UCLA Medical School. In a July 1997 address to the Linacre Centre for Health Care Ethics, Shewmon cites 140 cases of prolonged survival for months, sometimes years by brain-dead patients. In the most extraordinary of these cases, the patient has survived fourteen years. During that time, multiple tests have been performed, and detected no brain function. Yet the patient has grown, overcome infections, and healed wounds. Like many such patients, he has survived without extraordinary medical intervention beyond a ventilator and nursing care.

How can a patient with no apparent brain function continue to live, assimilate food, grow, and demonstrate other signs of life for a period of years? One is forced toward either of two possible conclusions, either of which strikes at the basic premises of the argument for brain death. It is possible to argue that modern medicine cannot accurately detect the presence or absence of brain function. Alternatively, one could argue as Shewmon did argue in his Linacre address that these patients do indeed lack brain function, but are nevertheless living human beings, who derive their bodily unity not from a central coordinating organ like the brain, but from the "mutual interaction among all the parts of the body."

“Truly Pro-Life”

Since: Nov 11

Proudly Pro-choice

#321613 Feb 5, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Not everyone would agree with your statement. I would like to know if that is your own idea.
It's the explanation the doctor who presided over my son's case gave us, when my son was pronounced brain dead, the day after he collapsed from a brain aneurysm. We elected to let him stay on the vent until recipients were found for his organs - a process that took approximately 48 hours - and we were also told that if the harvest team couldn't start in 72 hours, his organs wouldn't be viable enough to transplant.

Why would anyone allow a loved one to remain attached to a ventilator for fourteen years - and why did they then 'pull the plug'?

Tired of waiting? Got a bit pricey? Or was the poor corpse just too pathetic to keep flogging at that point?
Ink

Havertown, PA

#321614 Feb 5, 2014
grumpy wrote:
<quoted text>How can you say both sides were trying to do the right thing!
The hospital was trying to generate income and avoid legal problems. The family was trying to preserve the quality of life of the family.(unless someone would have adopted the baby???)
The hospital was trying to follow the Texas law.

“Shoot for the stars”

Since: Dec 10

Planet Earth

#321615 Feb 5, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Not everyone would agree with your statement. I would like to know if that is your own idea.
Evidence is offered by Dr. Alan Shewmon, Professor of Pediatric Neurology at UCLA Medical School. In a July 1997 address to the Linacre Centre for Health Care Ethics, Shewmon cites 140 cases of prolonged survival for months, sometimes years by brain-dead patients. In the most extraordinary of these cases, the patient has survived fourteen years. During that time, multiple tests have been performed, and detected no brain function. Yet the patient has grown, overcome infections, and healed wounds. Like many such patients, he has survived without extraordinary medical intervention beyond a ventilator and nursing care.
How can a patient with no apparent brain function continue to live, assimilate food, grow, and demonstrate other signs of life for a period of years? One is forced toward either of two possible conclusions, either of which strikes at the basic premises of the argument for brain death. It is possible to argue that modern medicine cannot accurately detect the presence or absence of brain function. Alternatively, one could argue as Shewmon did argue in his Linacre address that these patients do indeed lack brain function, but are nevertheless living human beings, who derive their bodily unity not from a central coordinating organ like the brain, but from the "mutual interaction among all the parts of the body."
There are other neurology specialists who will tell you that a brain dead individual is dead and is only artificially kept alive. Without a ventilator the patient would automatically die. Also, many brain dead patients are vented until their organs are harvested so others can live.

“Shoot for the stars”

Since: Dec 10

Planet Earth

#321616 Feb 5, 2014
not a playa1965 wrote:
<quoted text>It's the explanation the doctor who presided over my son's case gave us, when my son was pronounced brain dead, the day after he collapsed from a brain aneurysm. We elected to let him stay on the vent until recipients were found for his organs - a process that took approximately 48 hours - and we were also told that if the harvest team couldn't start in 72 hours, his organs wouldn't be viable enough to transplant.
Why would anyone allow a loved one to remain attached to a ventilator for fourteen years - and why did they then 'pull the plug'?
Tired of waiting? Got a bit pricey? Or was the poor corpse just too pathetic to keep flogging at that point?
Usually, not always, but it's guilt, not wanting to let go and the hope of a miracle, which never comes, when the plug is not pulled right away. It is a very emotional decision for family members once the physician pronounces neurological death.

I've cared for patients that were brain-dead and vented until their organs were harvested and also patients where the plug had to be pulled without organ harvest.

I'm so sorry for your loss, not a playa 1965.

“Truly Pro-Life”

Since: Nov 11

Proudly Pro-choice

#321617 Feb 5, 2014
Earth Child 1 wrote:
<quoted text>Usually, not always, but it's guilt, not wanting to let go and the hope of a miracle, which never comes, when the plug is not pulled right away. It is a very emotional decision for family members once the physician pronounces neurological death.
I've cared for patients that were brain-dead and vented until their organs were harvested and also patients where the plug had to be pulled without organ harvest.
I'm so sorry for your loss, not a playa 1965.
Thank you for your condolences.
Ink

Havertown, PA

#321618 Feb 5, 2014
Earth Child 1 wrote:
<quoted text>
There are other neurology specialists who will tell you that a brain dead individual is dead and is only artificially kept alive. Without a ventilator the patient would automatically die. Also, many brain dead patients are vented until their organs are harvested so others can live.
Interesting article.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/element...

“Shoot for the stars”

Since: Dec 10

Planet Earth

#321619 Feb 5, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting article.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/element...
It is an interesting article, but it's just a few cases and out of the few cases the patients still died. Yes, there have been cases of misdiagnosis, which are very few.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#321620 Feb 5, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, I can see both sides and I think each side was trying to do the right thing. You on the other hand have it all sewed up as a political conspiracy to take away the dead woman's rights. You have also determined that the family was not covered by insurance even though both worked for the state or local government and all citizens are required by law to be insured. You make a lot of assumptions.
Insured or not, he'll still have a massive amount in the way of hospital bills for that two month period. Are you so stupid you don't understand this? The hospital should have to eat that amount, don't you think?

“Truly Pro-Life”

Since: Nov 11

Proudly Pro-choice

#321621 Feb 5, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, I can see both sides and I think each side was trying to do the right thing. You on the other hand have it all sewed up as a political conspiracy to take away the dead woman's rights. You have also determined that the family was not covered by insurance even though both worked for the state or local government and all citizens are required by law to be insured. You make a lot of assumptions.
I can see both sides too, you know...I just think your side is nuts.

The woman made her end of life wishes clear, and the State ignored them . Treated her in a manner she specifically said she didn't want, even against the wishes of her next of kin, and the next of kin of the fetus she carried.

You do realize the law the hospital says it was "...trying to follow...", applies to VIABLE fetuses....right? No human fetus is viable at fourteen weeks of pregnancy. The hospital is in for a massive lawsuit, which will cost the State millions to defend, and continue to show Texas Legislators as puritanical narcissists, who are bent on taking women's reproductive health care access, not to mention our legal status, back to the middle ages.

This was nothing more than a political stunt. An attempt to force the views of the hospital's administration on a bereaved family, and to advance the careers of the politicians who backed them.

Like most of the actions of the so-called 'pro-life' cabal, it was never about 'life'.

Wendy Davis for Governor of Texas!!!

“Truly Pro-Life”

Since: Nov 11

Proudly Pro-choice

#321622 Feb 5, 2014
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Insured or not, he'll still have a massive amount in the way of hospital bills for that two month period. Are you so stupid you don't understand this? The hospital should have to eat that amount, don't you think?
Yes, yes, and yes.

I predict the TX Supreme Court will rule against the State. With luck, Texas won't add injury to insult, and require the family to pay for this bit of political farce.

Disgusting.
Gtown71

United States

#321623 Feb 5, 2014
I miss that gclown guy sometimes :)

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