Bible study rules for public schools proposed

[havent forgotten]

Spaceship earth wrote:

<quoted text>
Good illustrations of your posulate Q, thanks.

I assume you know you have an imposter. it was the lack of high iq that alerted me, not just the absence of the green box.

[havent forgotten]

Wloclawek Warrior wrote:

I have a problem with folks coming to the door with the expensive suits and jewelery on to cram their religious morals and dogma down my throat. Long ago, I was taught to try "the spirits".
I recently lost a job as a charge nurse in psychiatric facility because of one of the laziest mental health workers, who would sit and text while these miscreants would over run the place.
Being as I was the only white and did my work, all documented on the camera, I was chosen, at first by thr gold wearing, self professed undertaker/ elder/preacher to test my religiosity.
Because whatever dumb thing that came out of the mouth of his did so with authority, he came and started to bother me, what religion, Do I believe in the bible, etc. So I asked him a few verses and tricked up this blowhard, who became inflamed and called me some sort of demon.
So here I think it would end. It seems to me that when one goes to a job it is to work, not sleep, or hide out, etc. So out of the sight of the cameras he sat. If he is so religious, he should sit right in the front of the camera, but all hid black friends seen to it that I was gone.
One other thing, Just why is it that every morning there is some big fay slob, color notwithstanding, black, screaming on the television, all about Jesus and all the things that come out are tainted, then the plate passing begins.
Yes, being a Preacher, and taking the job seriously, or even better yet, an elder. How many have seduced your son or daughter?
The good book told a story of the Pharisee, standing in the street shouting out the prayer,"He has his reward!" was said, but when you go to pray, go to your prayer closet and close the door, what you ask the Lord for in secret, He will reward you openly.
Karma and the certain hidden laws of nature make it a dangerous trade to practice, Preaching, and then the taking of money, or extorting, better said. Physician, heal thyself.
It never ceases to amaze me how loud the big fat black bitch can scream on that early morning TV.

I am very sorry that your commeht mixed race, religion, obscenity, and what seems to be a genuine grievance. I cannot separate them well enough to know how to reply to you easily. You sound like a racist, and your laslt comment is both obscene and racist. but you also sound like you had to put up with religious harrassment in the workplace, and like you did more than your share of work. I hope you will abandon your racist generalizations and attitude. That does not mean all black people are wonderful. I also hope you will stop using the b word. I do not approve of the extremism of black preachers and churches any more than I do of the extremism of white fundie rightwing ones, or rightwing Catholics, or rightwing of other religions. I am sorry your work experience was unpleasant.T suppose you have been driven to some of your excesses, by too much exposure to unpleasant experiences.
People should not be overly fat, for health reasons. There needs to be a way to emphasize good nutrition and exercise, without being mean to fat people. maybe you should try to find another job, and then you could calm down a bit, and not be so angry.

[havent forgotten]

wronged wrote:

How wonderful that must be for him to know he would see them all again someday. One question though how do you know for sure that once saved always saved? Does the bible not say repent? If you were always saved why would you have a need to do that? Just wanted your outlook on that. I hope and pray everyone including my children make it to heaven. But I cant get anyone there but me, myself and I , can only try and steer them in that direction hoping we all make it.

you may be new to topix, so please hit the reply button so we know what commenter you reply to. also be warned that yes and amen is a very obscene person, and very insulting and nasty. not someone to be an ally of, if you use decent language and are civil.
I think your question about once saved always saved is interesting. what is your opinion about that? seems to me one good thing about religion would be to scare people into behaving decently and not hurting others. but once saved always saved seems to undermine that, especially if all one has to do to get saved is to believe in some particular doctrine.

[havent forgotten]

Mike Duquette wrote:

<quoted text>According to the bible, all atheists have never done one good thing in their lives. So if you disagree, the bible is not one hundred percent true.
Psalm 14:1
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Fool Says, There Is No God
To the choirmaster. Of David.
14 The fool says in his heart,“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good.

yes, but are you kidding seems smarter and nicer than the bible. lots of Christians do, once you find out their humane views. I do not see how they can make much improvement in Christian doctrine without actually repudiating the essential parts of it, but I wish them good luck in trying to improve it (meaning by implication that I hope they repudiate many of the worst parts of it, however essential to the fundamentals of the religion). same with other religions.

[havent forgotten]

Spaceship earth wrote:

<quoted text>
Can you tell me if any of these sects of religion are acceptable to God as true christianity. If they any teach satanic doctrines,which ones?
1. Jehovah Witnesses
2. Seventh Day Advantist
3. Mormon (LDS)
4. Catholic
5. Pentecostal

Wings of a Dove is about to have to repudiate all denominations and cults as such, and go through the world individual by individual, if he is to find any who follow a decent view of wwjd.

[havent forgotten]

curious wrote:

<quoted text>You made a point within my point. Letting the other side take control of what goes on in schools. What happen to the good old days? If parents taught their kids respect. Children should be taught respect, to respect teachers and adults, people in general. Its all about I I I I .....and WANT WANT WANT.... Without regards to others... Its not about wanting more. in the least. It's about FAIRNESS TO ALL!!!!

respect for persons, and for other living creatures. not respect for Authority as such. sometimes people want more because they did not get what they really needed as children - they need love and belonging and security and happiness. that was not necessarily what they got in the good old days. it would be a matter of family by family,. even parent by parent, whether they got the love and good example and good life they needed as children. a religion teaching hellfire is not part of love or a good life.

[havent forgotten]

Are You Kidding wrote:

<quoted text>
I personally know hundreds of Christians who are not like that at all. In addition, I have done nothing to you. I have not tried to force anything on you. To categorize every Christian together and to make that comment to me when you don't even know me indicates your level of bias and hatred.

I just found the comment of sp in which he was so nasty to you. as part of generalizing against all Christians. my guess is that he might have been raised in a fundy repressive religion, and had a hard time getting free, and so is hostile to Christianity based on a bad experience.
as one raised agnostic and atheist and unafraid of the social elites (religious and academic) in my community, I am a socalled friendly agnostic/atheist. I can understand the harsh ones to some extent, but do not approve, and I let them know. Some of them turn against me for disapproving of their obscenity, for example. Others back down and admit they do not mean to attack all Christians. Most tolerate me and yet do not apologize or change their ways! Those are the ones I call chide-able - meaning I can chide them for their language and generalizations, and yet they are not hostile to me, and still continue a conversation. I think you might try to protest calmly to those types, and see if any of them recognize you are not a rightwing fundie extremist - as I am assume you are not.

[havent forgotten]

Concerned citizen wrote:

A thought....did it ever occur to any of you that not everyone believes the same thing you do. Nor should they be forced to. What if lived in an area where everyone was not christians. Say a large city where there are more religions. Would you think it were fair if others tried to push their religion into schools and onto your child. No way, you'd be after their heads. The issue here is that school is no place for religion of any kind. if you want your child to hear about religion on schools, then send them to a chrisitan school. their are grants and scholarships available. but don't tell me i have to force my child to undertake the teachings of a religion that i do not agree with. i wouldn't do it to your children and I believe it is your Bible that says you should treat others how you would like to be treated.

This is a very fine reply to the extemist Christians who want to force their views on children. You set the sort of example I want to see for how a person should stand up for the principle of religious freedom, and for non-Establishment of religion, strongly but without hostility. You ask others to put themselves in the shoes of other persons - which is a rare thing on topix. thank you for a fine comment. I strongly support a coalition of persons who respect the first amendment, and it should include anyone who understands as a matter of principle, and a matter of practice - whether agnostic, believer in another religion, or Christian.

[havent forgotten]

spooky wrote:

I think having some over bearing grown man rolling around on the floor claiming to be speaking in tongues and scaring the heck out of kids with the promise of buring in a make believe hell for eternity if they don't behave is child abuse. Shame on you!

I agree with you. next time hit the reply button so we can see whose comment you were replying to. and please come back. we need straight shooters who do not overgeneralize, but concentrate on the really bad attitudes and practices of the the really bad persons who claim to follow some religion or other.
the hellfire preaching types - and the Armageddon threatening types - are among the worst.

[havent forgotten]

The Specialist wrote:

<quoted text>If most law-maker's would actually read the Bible, they would think twice before enforcing religious laws onto our children. The very concept sickens me.

how much do you know about lawmakers? the new ones elected by the tea party and the rightwing Christian fundies are busy passing laws to take away the right to vote for old people, minorities, and college students who do not have photo id's with expiration dates. in 31 states a rapist has parental rights. the guy who came up with the theory that a woman who is really legitimately raped has some sort of biological mechanism that will keep her from getting pregnant - that guy was a surrogate spokesman for Romney in 2007.
if you want decent lawmakers, you need to take back the gOP from the nut-cases, and stop the big money rightwing corporate types from funding commercials with attacks on anyone to the left of Attila the Hun. Bob Dole would get trashed by this crowd!

[Are You Kidding]

havent forgotten wrote:

<quoted text> I just found the comment of sp in which he was so nasty to you. as part of generalizing against all Christians. my guess is that he might have been raised in a fundy repressive religion, and had a hard time getting free, and so is hostile to Christianity based on a bad experience.
as one raised agnostic and atheist and unafraid of the social elites (religious and academic) in my community, I am a socalled friendly agnostic/atheist. I can understand the harsh ones to some extent, but do not approve, and I let them know. Some of them turn against me for disapproving of their obscenity, for example. Others back down and admit they do not mean to attack all Christians. Most tolerate me and yet do not apologize or change their ways! Those are the ones I call chide-able - meaning I can chide them for their language and generalizations, and yet they are not hostile to me, and still continue a conversation. I think you might try to protest calmly to those types, and see if any of them recognize you are not a rightwing fundie extremist - as I am assume you are not.

Thank you for your post and I appreciate your input. I guess it takes time to get a clear picture of where everyone is coming from. My interest is discussion and debate. Not harassment and name calling.

[havent forgotten]

somebody wrote:

NO! no no no no! If you teach the bible you're teaching against science and tolerance! Do you want your children to know it's okay to own slaves or having two wives isn't adultery?

not to know, but to believe - is why they want to teach that stuff. reinforcement for the beliefs of the fundies, by making everyone else's children learn the same nonsense they teach their own children. the two wives stuff is not so bad - if it were patrick dempsey or someone else gorgeous. there is lots worse. the problem with the polygamy theory and practice is that it is usually carried out as an oppression of women, and not as a favor to them. and monogamy can be a form of oppression too, if there is no divorce allowed, or if marital rape is permitted.

[havent forgotten]

sad wrote:

One huge con! You can have love and be kind to others without this imaginary guy up in the sky. Funny how christians believe they hold the market on morals and humanity and the rest of us are "evil doers".

many true believing christians do believe that. I think maybe fewer than one thinks. the fundies dominate topix, and a moderate christian would get torn apart for showing tolerance for other views here. and to be candid, some moderate christians are too busy being halfway nice people, and halfway superstitious people, to have time for chats on internet. lots of prayer meetings, and lots of dogooder activities. one tolerates it in a small town like mine, if there is enough doing good. it is disconcerting to get prayed for if one is sick however! my Christian friends like me, and think they are helping. I am secretly amused, and grateful that they care about me, without being too clear about how silly I think they are in thinking they can petition God on Wednesdays and Sundays, and then accept HIS WILL when things do not go so well.(I am not very sick - bad knees mostly. I regard exercise as a better alternative than prayer.

[havent forgotten]

Mike Duquette wrote:

<quoted text>I do get bored with it. That is why I left this tread for a while. I am up for some more nuanced debate if you wish to play.
But to answer your question, yes, I do wish for them to leave superstition behind for their sake, but also for societies sake. I feel religious extremism is hurting our society. I have multiple motives. Sometimes I just wish to test my own beliefs. I find discussing them makes one self examine his own ideals. If I cannot answer a question, maybe there is reason. Sometimes I am just not educated, but on occasion, I do find my own beliefs are flawed.
This happens usually in political discussions. I cannot recall any in a religious debate.
So if I am just uneducated on a topic, I study it more to be on point in a debate. So it is a great learning motivator.
Debating is fun for me. So for many years, I have studied just to be able to debate knowledgeably.
My favorite subject I have had to research so far is evolutionary psychology. Fascinating stuff.
I do feel some religious persons will convert. I have converted or at least contributed to converting quite a few people I know. Sometimes it is a simple as planting a seed of doubt. A year or two later I see them and they say they are now agnostic or atheist and give me credit.
I have seen none of these people regret loosing faith one bit.
I find it is almost a religious experience loosing faith and discovering the reality of our world.
I think one has the same enlightening, euphoric emotional experience.
I feel in my own conversion, a renewed lease on life. I can see clearly now the religion is gone.

thank you for your interesting reply. I am trying to catch up with lots of people and pages, but your comments are encouraging - about getting people to start doubting. I assume you were raised religious, but do not know whether it was with a rightwing version. I think you would have a better idea of what can help people see through their indoctrination - because of what you seem to have gone through.

[Satanic Priest]

havent forgotten wrote:

<quoted text> respect for persons, and for other living creatures. not respect for Authority as such. sometimes people want more because they did not get what they really needed as children - they need love and belonging and security and happiness. that was not necessarily what they got in the good old days. it would be a matter of family by family,. even parent by parent, whether they got the love and good example and good life they needed as children. a religion teaching hellfire is not part of love or a good life.

You sound like a Satanist

[Believer]

wronged wrote:

How wonderful that must be for him to know he would see them all again someday. One question though how do you know for sure that once saved always saved? Does the bible not say repent? If you were always saved why would you have a need to do that? Just wanted your outlook on that. I hope and pray everyone including my children make it to heaven. But I cant get anyone there but me, myself and I , can only try and steer them in that direction hoping we all make it.

Amen.

[Are You Kidding]

havent forgotten wrote:

<quoted text> respect for persons, and for other living creatures. not respect for Authority as such. sometimes people want more because they did not get what they really needed as children - they need love and belonging and security and happiness. that was not necessarily what they got in the good old days. it would be a matter of family by family,. even parent by parent, whether they got the love and good example and good life they needed as children. a religion teaching hellfire is not part of love or a good life.

I was born in the late 50's and my father was a minister. I grew up in a very loving, secure family. Memories of my childhood always bring me smiles. I was in church every time the doors were open and my father taught love and forgiveness. I never felt intimidated or scared.

[Spaceship earth]

Is the GOP the party of anti-science?

Rep. Todd Akin made news this weekend by announcing that pregnancy from "legitimate rape" is rare. He further argued that physicians had told him that women who were traumatized in such a way had biological things happen in their bodies to "shut down" the "whole thing" so that fertilization won't occur

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/20/opinion/carroll...

[aWitchintheWoods]

Spaceship earth wrote:

Is the GOP the party of anti-science?
Rep. Todd Akin made news this weekend by announcing that pregnancy from "legitimate rape" is rare. He further argued that physicians had told him that women who were traumatized in such a way had biological things happen in their bodies to "shut down" the "whole thing" so that fertilization won't occur
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/20/opinion/carroll...

Such appalling ignorance from an elected member of our government.
ANY woman who votes for this a$$hole should have her head examined.
(And honestly, any MAN also.)

And look.... http://www.examiner.com/article/kirk-cameron-...

Kirk "look how wonderfully god made bananas peel" Cameron is DEFENDING the idiot.

The fundies may be right. If the end isn't near, it should be.

[Spaceship earth]

aWitchintheWoods wrote:

<quoted text>
Such appalling ignorance from an elected member of our government.
ANY woman who votes for this a$$hole should have her head examined.
(And honestly, any MAN also.)
And look.... http://www.examiner.com/article/kirk-cameron-...
Kirk "look how wonderfully god made bananas peel" Cameron is DEFENDING the idiot.
The fundies may be right. If the end isn't near, it should be.

The GOP theocracy will ban birth control if they can. Back to the O.T. where women are second class citizens. Ryan and Romney will lie and spin this issue to get elected.

It will not stop there. Gop will say b.s. to get the seniors and hispanics to vote for them.

Romney even admitted he will say whatever he has to be expediently successful politically.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/...