Church Influence in Estill County

Church Influence in Estill County

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IndividualSovere ignty

Sheridan, AR

#1 Dec 6, 2012
I don't know about you, but Im personally sick and tired of the 88 or so churches in Estill County being the ones telling everyone else how they can and cannot live their own individual life. If you are tired of their nanny statism then vote wet on January 15th 2013.. Its not just about alcohol sales... Its about your right to live life as you see fit.
yep

Prestonsburg, KY

#2 Dec 7, 2012
IndividualSovereignty wrote:
I don't know about you, but Im personally sick and tired of the 88 or so churches in Estill County being the ones telling everyone else how they can and cannot live their own individual life. If you are tired of their nanny statism then vote wet on January 15th 2013.. Its not just about alcohol sales... Its about your right to live life as you see fit.
I agree. I have tried several but almost all are the same. The try to tell you what to have and how to live your life. Its bull. You all have until DEC. 15 to register to vote for it too.
hello

Irvine, KY

#3 Dec 7, 2012
is there a special registry? How do you know if you are registered?
yep

Clay City, KY

#4 Dec 7, 2012
hello wrote:
is there a special registry? How do you know if you are registered?
No. If you voted in November then your still registered to vote. I was telling people who aren't registered to vote to register if they wanted to vote on this.

“I been hangin' on every word.”

Since: Sep 10

Location hidden

#5 Dec 7, 2012
IndividualSovereignty wrote:
I don't know about you, but Im personally sick and tired of the 88 or so churches in Estill County being the ones telling everyone else how they can and cannot live their own individual life. If you are tired of their nanny statism then vote wet on January 15th 2013.. Its not just about alcohol sales... Its about your right to live life as you see fit.
I do believe they are well-intentioned, but trying to prevent someone from having the ability to sin is not the way to go about converting others. Not that alcohol is sinful anyway, unless you abuse it--Jesus' first public miracle was to create a ton of the stuff for a wedding according to my Bible, and it just so happens that the wine was the best around.
IndividualSovere ignty

Sheridan, AR

#7 Dec 8, 2012
Well intentions can only be well intentions for the short term.. This has been going on for decades and its just now blatent indoctrination and it has to stop. If Churches cannot be stopped here.. What is to stop them from pushing for bans on cigarettes? on Guns? on anything else they deem "harmful" since they can't bring it upon themselves to blame people for woes instead of objects and substances!
doublestandards

United States

#8 Dec 8, 2012
They may not have the right to win their fight, but they do have the right to wage whatever battle their conscience dictates. You don't win by suppressing someone else's right to say their piece. That's just taking away their basic human rights in a dictatorship fashion. That's not winning, that's just bullying and trampling over someone else's rights in order to lay claim to your own. I know a lot of these people and they truly believe in their cause, just like you believe in yours. They would never dream of taking away your right to fight for what you believe. Why would you want to take away theirs?
IndividualSovere ignty

Sheridan, AR

#9 Dec 8, 2012
doublestandards wrote:
They may not have the right to win their fight, but they do have the right to wage whatever battle their conscience dictates. You don't win by suppressing someone else's right to say their piece. That's just taking away their basic human rights in a dictatorship fashion. That's not winning, that's just bullying and trampling over someone else's rights in order to lay claim to your own. I know a lot of these people and they truly believe in their cause, just like you believe in yours. They would never dream of taking away your right to fight for what you believe. Why would you want to take away theirs?
That is where you are wrong.. No one should ever have the right to use a vote to dictate what someone can and cannot have access too.. That is not freedom. That is facism at its finest.. No one is suppressing anyone else's freedom of speech. I don't know how you could even construe that conclusion here. The problem is someone is keeping someone else from having access to a legal substance.. The problem is that adults even have to fight just to enjoy supporting their county while enjoying an alcoholic beverage with their meals or just in the company of their friends.. The fight is the problem..
IndividualSovere ignty

Sheridan, AR

#10 Dec 8, 2012
Further more churches are not people, they absolutely do not have the right to use their collective funds to coerce the policies that are enacted on the entire population of the county.. Just like how Corporations should not have the ability to court and lobby our politicians for favorable votes on regulations.. It prohibits the everyday person from being able to have influence because they don't have the collective money and influence that corporations and churches have.. I believe in God with my whole heart but I do not go to church because they have in my opinion lost their way and lost favor with God in their quest to no longer live by example and show respect onto their fellow man but by using their tithing to push false teachings and propaganda and influencing policies which violate God's free will given to all of us.
IndividualSovere ignty

Sheridan, AR

#11 Dec 8, 2012
Kick Brass wrote:
<quoted text>
I do believe they are well-intentioned, but trying to prevent someone from having the ability to sin is not the way to go about converting others. Not that alcohol is sinful anyway, unless you abuse it--Jesus' first public miracle was to create a ton of the stuff for a wedding according to my Bible, and it just so happens that the wine was the best around.
That is alot of the Church's problems today.. they think they have the power to convert people.. Only when God speaks to someone's heart can a conversion take place.. Not one single person on this planet has to power nor deserves praise for when someone turns to God and their heart is cleansed by the blood of the lamb. This is why Churches resort to these tactics because they are seeking the praise of the community and using their tithing as a symbol of power.
doublestandards

United States

#12 Dec 8, 2012
They still have the right to exercise their own free will by supporting what they believe. No matter whether everyone else believes it or not. They have a right to do with their monies whatever they want to do with them. If they want to pitch it all into one big pot and use that, why not? Very few people agree with the Westboro Baptist folks, but they still have a right to voice their opinion, as nasty as it might be to most of us. Not everyone agrees with the KKK, but they have a right to march just like everyone else, even if it is repugnant to some of us. If they had tried to stop the right to vote on the wet/dry issue by tearing down the petitions, then they would be in the wrong. If they try to garner support for their side with signs and by lobbying for what they believe, then they are within their rights.

I plan to vote wet myself. But I would never dream of suppressing the other side's plans to vote dry. Saying that a person or group needs to be "stopped" looks like an act of attempted suppression through intimidation. It riles up the other side to fight even harder. Let the vote run its course and may be best man win, regardless of who that is. If it goes wet, celebrate. If it remains dry, take the lumps and rally up and try again in a few years.
IndividualSovere ignty

London, KY

#13 Dec 8, 2012
No one has the free will to prohibit the free will of another individual.. that is not how freedom works. This is precisely why this country was made as a constitutional republic and not a democracy. Rights belong to individuals, not groups of people.. Precisely why Churches should not be allowed to use their collective purchasing power to influence public policy... They want to keep their tax exempt status but at the same time want to continue to meddle in the affairs of everyone. "Suppression through Intimidation" You seriously think that the 88 or so churches that operate in this county do not use intimidation to coerce their members to vote dry? You seriously think they would be just as respectful to their members if they openly supported and pushed for a wet Estill County? Marching and Voicing opinions is one thing but for their to even be a vote in place that prohibits someone over the age of 21 to enjoy purchasing alcohol consuming alcohol and supporting their county with the tax revenue, that is not freedom that is "democracy" aka sweet socialism, aka sugar coated facism..
IndividualSovere ignty

London, KY

#14 Dec 8, 2012
Votes should only be used to elect officials, never to bring prohibition against an object or substance.. Prohibition only supports black markets which are wrought with immorality and crime. How it has been accepted that Churches and Bootleggars have gotten their way by supporting eachother by keeping this county dry for so long is just the tip of the iceberg of describing the many woes this county faces..
doublestandards

United States

#15 Dec 8, 2012
Despite what you say and believe, it is still a part of our legal process to be able to vote to keep a county wet or dry. If you don't like that, use your rights to lobby to get that changed. In the meantime, it is perfectly legal for them to lobby otherwise.

You're probably not looking at as much of an uphill battle as you seem to think it is. I know with certainty that there are people sitting quietly in those churches that plan to either vote wet or not vote at all. I just don't think attacking the churches is the answer because those silent people might just uprise and vote dry.
Individual Soverignty

London, KY

#16 Dec 8, 2012
Why don't churches use their "collective" monies to attack REAL issues like abortions?? Abortions kill over 800,000 innocent unborn babies a year.. Yet I haven't seen a single sign talking about this socially accepted genocide behavior.. Talk about a complete breakdown of priorities within the church..
doublestandards

United States

#17 Dec 8, 2012
Because the abortion issue is a global one. The wet/dry vote is a local issue. There also isn't an abort/don-abort election on the horizon that I'm aware of. Since wet/dry is up for vote they feel like there is something they can do about wet/dry. Most people won't start up a parade, but they will jump on a bandwagon. Also, some people feel like they don't have a global voice, but they do have a local voice.
FED UP Irvinite

London, KY

#18 Dec 8, 2012
Global includes Local... They want to stand up for something worth standing up for that truely is sinful and harmful, they should stand up against abortions, stand up against pedophilia.. But no they choose in this county to pick on a substance that Jesus himself made.. Yeah real bright people there!!

“I been hangin' on every word.”

Since: Sep 10

Location hidden

#19 Dec 8, 2012
The church does have the right to push their agenda just like anyone else; I simply wish that some of them would spend more time studying the Bible as I have done; heck I don't spend as much time reading as I should and even I don't have trouble understanding that 1: Jesus, the disciples and a lot of other people we expect to see in Heaven drank wine, and 2: it was *not* grape juice. You don't give grape juice to a dying man to make him forget his troubles. You don't give someone grape juice to settle their stomach, either.

But no, the church does have the right to push the prohibition idea, and they even have a right to justify it by their own religious beliefs. I only hope that our county is willing to stop trying to control the actions of others. If we could force others to follow Christ then Jesus would have come with a sword, not an olive branch.
Individual Sovereignty

London, KY

#20 Dec 8, 2012
Kick Brass wrote:
The church does have the right to push their agenda just like anyone else; I simply wish that some of them would spend more time studying the Bible as I have done; heck I don't spend as much time reading as I should and even I don't have trouble understanding that 1: Jesus, the disciples and a lot of other people we expect to see in Heaven drank wine, and 2: it was *not* grape juice. You don't give grape juice to a dying man to make him forget his troubles. You don't give someone grape juice to settle their stomach, either.
But no, the church does have the right to push the prohibition idea, and they even have a right to justify it by their own religious beliefs. I only hope that our county is willing to stop trying to control the actions of others. If we could force others to follow Christ then Jesus would have come with a sword, not an olive branch.
I have to disagree with you on some things you said.. Churches are organizations.. They are not people with individual rights. Freedom of Religion covers the individual wishing to worship in their own belief, not the ability of an organization to impose its beliefs on a population at the public level.. Also Churches are tax exempt.. If they want to play in public policies then they should give up that exemption. I have nothing against Churches that stick to their own business and don't try to use the legal system to force others to abide by their beliefs..But this nonsense of people forming public policies around the belief of Private religious institutions is not only harmful to the general public but an offense to my right to free will and live my life as I see and only I see fit. Sure Churches have a right to protest, they have a right to March, spread their message, but NO ONE should ever have the right to vote to keep me from drinking a damn beer just because they don't have the courage to blame a person when something bad happens they always blame a substance or an object. Would you still support the Churches right to push policies that would prevent you from open Carrying a gun? From renting a porno? From Smoking? From Chewing? Where does it end? And when do the people tell them that this is enough and that they should keep to themselves and leave everyone else alone?
matter of fact

United States

#21 Dec 8, 2012
Churches are groups of people that gather to worship together. Just because they do things together as a group does not take away their individual rights. If churches have no place in public policy, then neither does any other group, including political parties, unions, movements such as Occupy Wall Street. Everyone should have the right to vote on anything that is up on a ballot! Being "religious" does not exclude someone from being human or being American, with the basic rights that come along with being either. Why attempt to lay the wet/dry issue at the feet of one group of people when that's just not the way it is. There are many people unaffiliated with any church that will vote dry. There are many church-goers that will vote wet. There is no logical reason to pick on this one group because they just happen to be vocal about their opinion. Slippery slope, man, slippery slope.

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