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New York Primary Election Sept 14: Wi...

# New York Primary Election Sept 14: Will you vote?

Created by Top Mod2 on Sep 13, 2010

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voter
#18542 Apr 17, 2013
vote
voter
#18543 Apr 17, 2013
just vote for who u want
Unrelyable
#18544 Apr 18, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah - I was wondering whether we'd see if you ever made it past 6th grade arithmetic. If your handle refers to your math skillz - it's accurate.

No, the guy making \$20K/ann pays 0.18 x \$20K =\$3600. Ten bucks a day.

The guy making \$5 mill/ann pays 0.18 x \$5 mill =\$900,000.

So, no - they don't pay "exactly the same amount in taxes." The guy making \$5 mill is paying 250 TIMES as much tax as the \$20K/ann guy.

Still not "fair" enough for you? Fine - we can exclude from taxation ALL income up to a threshold amount - say, the Federal poverty line (\$11,170 in 2012, for an individual). Still simple, flat, fair and we can still do that on a 1-page tax return.

Then your \$20K/ann guy would be paying 0.18 x (\$20K -\$11.17K)=\$1,589.40 in taxes - less than \$5 a day - while Mr. Eeeeevul Rich Guy gets gouged with a 0.18 x (\$5 mill -\$11,170)=\$897,989.40 tax bill - about 565 TIMES what your \$20K/year guy pays.

I'm just fine with that, too - how about you?
"So, no - they don't pay "exactly the same amount in taxes.""

...Both are paying 18% in taxes... That's, in fact, both parties paying the same amount in taxes... 18%...

Sure, salaries can differ, obviously, but that doesn't negate the fact someone who makes \$25,000 a year, paying 18% in taxes is paying the SAME amount in taxes as someone making three million dollars a year... 18%...

"Still not "fair" enough for you?"

Still?? You didn't say anything different... You claim poor and rich people should pay the same tax rate, to which you CONTINUED to argue... And it's STILL not fair, in my opinion...

"I'm just fine with that, too - how about you?"

Obviously not, as MY argument has been, and still is, poor people should not pay the same amount in taxes (rate wise, since you're obviously trying to skew what I'm saying now) as rich people... It's not fair...

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Unrelyable
#18545 Apr 18, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah - I was wondering whether we'd see if you ever made it past 6th grade arithmetic. If your handle refers to your math skillz - it's accurate.

No, the guy making \$20K/ann pays 0.18 x \$20K =\$3600. Ten bucks a day.

The guy making \$5 mill/ann pays 0.18 x \$5 mill =\$900,000.

So, no - they don't pay "exactly the same amount in taxes." The guy making \$5 mill is paying 250 TIMES as much tax as the \$20K/ann guy.

Still not "fair" enough for you? Fine - we can exclude from taxation ALL income up to a threshold amount - say, the Federal poverty line (\$11,170 in 2012, for an individual). Still simple, flat, fair and we can still do that on a 1-page tax return.

Then your \$20K/ann guy would be paying 0.18 x (\$20K -\$11.17K)=\$1,589.40 in taxes - less than \$5 a day - while Mr. Eeeeevul Rich Guy gets gouged with a 0.18 x (\$5 mill -\$11,170)=\$897,989.40 tax bill - about 565 TIMES what your \$20K/year guy pays.

I'm just fine with that, too - how about you?

Oh no! Not an insult on topix!

Sorry you don't get the difference between rich people paying less in taxes then poor people. And sorry you confuse tax rates with people's income compared to the tax rate.

But to reiterate, nothing you said negates the fact rich people pay lower tax rates then poor people and that, to me, is not fair...

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Teddy R
#18546 Apr 18, 2013
Unrelyable wrote:
<quoted text>
"So, no - they don't pay "exactly the same amount in taxes.""
...Both are paying 18% in taxes... That's, in fact, both parties paying the same amount in taxes... 18%...
Sure, salaries can differ, obviously, but that doesn't negate the fact someone who makes \$25,000 a year, paying 18% in taxes is paying the SAME amount in taxes as someone making three million dollars a year... 18%...
"Still not "fair" enough for you?"
Still?? You didn't say anything different... You claim poor and rich people should pay the same tax rate, to which you CONTINUED to argue... And it's STILL not fair, in my opinion...
"I'm just fine with that, too - how about you?"
Obviously not, as MY argument has been, and still is, poor people should not pay the same amount in taxes (rate wise, since you're obviously trying to skew what I'm saying now) as rich people... It's not fair...
So, extending your logic, your sense of "fair" is that rich people should pay a higher price/gal at the gas pump that poor people, higher prices for food than poor people, higher prices for ballgame tickets for the same seats as poor people, and so on.

"Jeder nach seinen FÃ¤higkeiten, jedem nach seinen BedÃ¼rfnissen!" - Karl Marx.

Your concept of "fair" is the Marxist one.

I suggest you move to a country more aligned with Marxist ideals.

That isn't "fair" in America.

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Teddy R
#18547 Apr 18, 2013
Unrelyable wrote:
<quoted text>
But to reiterate, nothing you said negates the fact rich people pay lower tax rates then poor people and that, to me, is not fair...
I never deied that. I proposed DOING SOMETHING TO CORRECT THAT - specifically, change the tax code so that EVERYONE, rich or not, pays the SAME IDENTICAL tax rate. Rich people would NOT pay any lower tax rate.

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Remiesong
#18551 Apr 18, 2013
Have you guys ever seen the movie Dumb and Dumber? Cuz you sure seem to be debating nothing.

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fam
#18552 Apr 18, 2013
Lol
Unrelyable
#18553 Apr 19, 2013
Remiesong wrote:
Have you guys ever seen the movie Dumb and Dumber? Cuz you sure seem to be debating nothing.
... If you consider fairer taxes nothing...

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Unrelyable
#18554 Apr 19, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>So, extending your logic, your sense of "fair" is that rich people should pay a higher price/gal at the gas pump that poor people, higher prices for food than poor people, higher prices for ballgame tickets for the same seats as poor people, and so on.

"Jeder nach seinen FÃƒÂ¤higkeiten, jedem nach seinen BedÃƒÂ¼rfnissen!" - Karl Marx.

Your concept of "fair" is the Marxist one.

I suggest you move to a country more aligned with Marxist ideals.

That isn't "fair" in America.
So, switching the topic from income tax rates to gas prices, food prices, and ball game ticket prices...

Why do I even bother?

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Unrelyable
#18555 Apr 19, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>I never deied that. I proposed DOING SOMETHING TO CORRECT THAT - specifically, change the tax code so that EVERYONE, rich or not, pays the SAME IDENTICAL tax rate. Rich people would NOT pay any lower tax rate.

Name calling and ad hominum attacks... Again, why am I not surprised?

Hmmm what's unfair about someone making \$20,000 a year paying 18% and someone making \$5 million a year paying 18%?

Lets see, maybe the 18% means MORE to the person making \$20,000 a year then to the millionaires. Maybe someone making \$20,000 a year keeping, lets say 8% of the 18%(paying 10% rather then 18%) can put food on their table instead of eating Ramen noodles. Maybe they could spend money on necessities for their children rather then barely getting by. Maybe they wouldn't have to worry about a hospital bill... Oh and they'd also have more money in their pockets, paying less in taxes, to spend on the economy, which, if you haven't noticed, needs all the help it can get... Rich people ever worry about food? Hospital bills? Feeding their children? Didn't think so.

Not to mention, a flat tax wouldn't prevent rich people from taking advantage of the loopholes poor people aren't able to obtain, so there's that....

But I'm interested, is it just taxes that, if aren't exactly equal, you claim Marxist? Like, would a teacher staying after school to help tutor a child ALSO be a sign of someone thinking as a Marxist? The other students aren't being treated as equal... What about different lesson plans for an autistic child? Also Marxist? Or should every child be taught in the exact same way (equality)?

And just so were clear, taxes RIGHT NOW are uneven, are you claiming America is a Marxist nation RIGHT NOW? I mean, if my idea of fairer taxes for everyone, rich paying more in taxes then poor, is Marxist, as you claim, then are you saying America is a Marxist nation, as poor people are currently paying a higher tax rate then rich people?

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Teddy R
#18556 Apr 19, 2013
Unrelyable wrote:
<quoted text>
So, switching the topic from income tax rates to gas prices, food prices, and ball game ticket prices...
Why do I even bother?
Not switching the topic - merely demonstrating your bankrupt logic by extending your same theory of "fairness" (people who aren't "rich" are entitled to pay less for stuff than "rich" people) to other equivalent cases.

It's not my fault your Marxist bolshist doesn't withstand critical & rational examination.

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Teddy R
#18557 Apr 19, 2013
Unrelyable wrote:
<quoted text>
Name calling and ad hominum attacks... Again, why am I not surprised?
Hmmm what's unfair about someone making \$20,000 a year paying 18% and someone making \$5 million a year paying 18%?
Lets see, maybe the 18% means MORE to the person making \$20,000 a year then to the millionaires. Maybe someone making \$20,000 a year keeping, lets say 8% of the 18%(paying 10% rather then 18%) can put food on their table instead of eating Ramen noodles. Maybe they could spend money on necessities for their children rather then barely getting by. Maybe they wouldn't have to worry about a hospital bill... Oh and they'd also have more money in their pockets, paying less in taxes, to spend on the economy, which, if you haven't noticed, needs all the help it can get... Rich people ever worry about food? Hospital bills? Feeding their children? Didn't think so.
Not to mention, a flat tax wouldn't prevent rich people from taking advantage of the loopholes poor people aren't able to obtain, so there's that....
But I'm interested, is it just taxes that, if aren't exactly equal, you claim Marxist? Like, would a teacher staying after school to help tutor a child ALSO be a sign of someone thinking as a Marxist? The other students aren't being treated as equal... What about different lesson plans for an autistic child? Also Marxist? Or should every child be taught in the exact same way (equality)?
And just so were clear, taxes RIGHT NOW are uneven, are you claiming America is a Marxist nation RIGHT NOW? I mean, if my idea of fairer taxes for everyone, rich paying more in taxes then poor, is Marxist, as you claim, then are you saying America is a Marxist nation, as poor people are currently paying a higher tax rate then rich people?
No ad hom at all - memrely characterizing your theory of "fairness" for what it clearly is - MARXIST, by definition.

Hell, quit whining and own it if you truly believe it.

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Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#18559 Apr 19, 2013
This from one of the top Democrats who was a key architecht of the Healthcare reform act!!!!
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Baucus warns of 'huge train wreck' enacting ObamaCare provisions
By Sam Baker - 04/17/13 12:33 PM ET

Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) said Wednesday he fears a "train wreck" as the Obama administration implements its signature healthcare law.

Baucus, the chairman of the chamber's powerful Finance Committee and a key architect of the healthcare reform law, said he fears people do not understand how the law will work.

"I just see a huge train wreck coming down," he told Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius at a Wednesday hearing. "You and I have discussed this many times, and I don't see any results yet."

Baucus pressed Sebelius for details about how the Health Department will explain the law and raise awareness of its provisions, which are supposed to take effect in just a matter of months.

"I'm very concerned that not enough is being done so far Â— very concerned," Baucus said.

He pressed Sebelius to explain how her department will overcome entrenched misunderstandings about what the healthcare law does.

"Small businesses have no idea what to do, what to expect," Baucus said.

Citing anecdotal evidence from small businesses in his home state, Baucus asked Sebelius for specifics about how it is measuring public understanding of the law.

"You need data. Do you have any data? You've never given me data. You only give me concepts, frankly," he said.

Sebelius said in response that the administration is not independently monitoring public awareness of specific provisions but will be embarking on an education campaign beginning this summer.

Baucus is facing a competitive reelection fight next year, and Republicans are sure to attack him over his role as the primary author of the healthcare law.

A messy rollout of the law's major provisions, months before Baucus faces voters, could feed into the GOP's criticism.

Wednesday's hearing wasn't the first time Democrats, including Baucus, have raised concerns about the implementation. But while other lawmakers have toned down their public comments as they've gotten answers from the Health secretary, Baucus said Sebelius has not addressed his fears.

"I'm going to keep on this until I feel a lot better about it," Baucus told Sebelius.

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Harry Potters Grandson

United States

#18562 Apr 21, 2013
Captain Morgan wrote:
<quoted text> And you thought you were gifted with your 1/4 brain! Hah! Go bag to Hogwort - Potter.
You fool I'm not a potter because I'm his grandson through his daughter. This means I homework e the last name of my father you bloody twit.

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Harry Potters Grandson

United States

#18563 Apr 21, 2013
*have
Teddy
#18565 Apr 24, 2013
Have what?
Unrelyable
#18566 Apr 24, 2013
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>Not switching the topic - merely demonstrating your bankrupt logic by extending your same theory of "fairness" (people who aren't "rich" are entitled to pay less for stuff than "rich" people) to other equivalent cases.

It's not my fault your Marxist bolshist doesn't withstand critical & rational examination.
"Not switching the topic - merely demonstrating your bankrupt logic by extending your same theory of "fairness" (people who aren't "rich" are entitled to pay less for stuff than "rich" people) to other equivalent cases."

Actually, you change the subject AGAIN! Ha ha pay for less "stuff?" No, I'm STILL just talking about tax rates... That's ALL I've been talking about, but please, continue to distort what I'm actually saying.

Taxes are governmentally issued. Gas prices aren't... You changed the subject from "tax rates" to "private company rates." One is government, one is private business. Not the same thing, hence, shouldn't be treated the same. Analogy fail...

"It's not my fault your Marxist bolshist doesn't withstand critical & rational examination."

Ha ha ha ironically, you ignored my question asking, since by YOUR logic, having different tax rates makes you a Marxist thinker, is America RIGHT NOW a Marxist country, as RIGHT NOW we have different tax rates.

See, the difference between you and I, I actually understand my side and why I have my views. You spew whatever rhetoric that Fox news and Rush tell you to. You DON'T understand YOUR SIDE of the argument...

You don't even understand the difference between a government program(taxes) and a private business gags companies, but that doesn't stop u from calling anyone who disagrees with you a Marxist, eh?

Ha ha ha what a joke!

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carl

United States

#18567 Apr 24, 2013
Unrelyable wrote:
<quoted text>
"the people already are taxed right to the breaking point as it is lol"
Maybe the poor and middle class, but to assert upper class people, the ones eligible for the biggest tax breaks and loop holes, pay there fair share, is a joke. Let me break it down for you.
In 2012, I, a person who makes 35,000 dollars a year, paid MORE in taxes then the guy you "almost" votes for, Mitt Romney. I paid 24% in taxes in 2012, Romney, who made 5 million dollars in 2012 by the way, paid 13.9% in taxes. Seems fair, eh?
Hell, ill bet YOU paid more in taxes in 2012 then 80% of the members of the upper class... The top 80% of upper class members paid an average of 19.5% in taxes in 2012.
How you can call that fair is beyond me, but when u just wanna bash the president all day, you'll disband all logic to assert your position is correct...
Oh and let's not forget about those tax free havens overseas rich people love to deposit American made money into...
"its silly liberals and their ideas of high taxes"
FAIR taxes... Not high taxes, FAIR taxes. If you're going to misrepresent a group of people (a conservative favorite) at least TRY to understand what issue the group is trying to present... Then if you disagree, present your argument. But to say liberals want higher taxes is grossly misrepresenting what we are ACTUALLY saying...
However, a conservative misrepresenting what liberals are saying is basically the only strategy you have. Any rational person would see millionaires paying less taxes then middle class families as unfair, hence you have to lie to people about the issues to get people on your side...
Where did I say that was fair? did i say that was fair? no.
Bash Obama? I bashed Bush as well... you seemed to not noticed that. I dont care for either one really. take the good from both mix it in to one and you'd have a good president.
Fair tax? lol coat it any way you want fair tax high tax its all the same with you liberals. is your idea of "fair tax" \$7,000 a year on a \$100,000 house in washington mills ny that isnt worth \$40,000 and you'd be damn lucky to get \$40,000 for when it came time to sell. is that "fair"? NO! 4 acres of bare land (was gonna be a hunting camp but not now with the high tax) out side of washington mills in the sticks with NO well septic or lights is \$950 yr tax... is THAT "fair". I can go one or two states away to Ohio even and my tax wouldnt be 1/3 of that and unlike NY i would have work and a let less laws(ohio is where im moving in 3 months)
my aunt moved to florida her tax on a \$50,000 house is \$500 a yr now that is FAIR. few weeks ago she said 5,000 jobs where coming in in her news viewing area. where i am moving in Ohio had 75 new factories moving in... see the diff between your blue and red states? you damn blue states all you think to do is tax and regulate thats why everyone has left or looking to leave and thats why you have no work. people bitch about the red states well let me tell you something the red states are booming and cutting tax the only thing you blue states are doing is taxing and forcing more people to leave. "fair tax" psssh you liberals dont know the first thing about fair tax. you cant tell me no diff im from new york one of the bluest most liberal states you can get and i know about the over tax/regulations and the no work.
new york no work high tax and lots of laws. yeah thats a blue state for you.
now then no i dont think its fair the rich isnt being taxed more but lets get one thing strait you can not tax business any more than it is otheriwse more will pack up and move to mexico or overseas but the rich sure tax a little more.
people can reply to this till they are blue in the face good chance i will not write back. i came here to state my facts thats it not get in a pissing match with a bunch of people.
and btw i am a Libertarian.

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carl

United States

#18568 Apr 24, 2013
Unrelyable wrote:
<quoted text>
"the people already are taxed right to the breaking point as it is lol"
Maybe the poor and middle class, but to assert upper class people, the ones eligible for the biggest tax breaks and loop holes, pay there fair share, is a joke. Let me break it down for you.
In 2012, I, a person who makes 35,000 dollars a year, paid MORE in taxes then the guy you "almost" votes for, Mitt Romney. I paid 24% in taxes in 2012, Romney, who made 5 million dollars in 2012 by the way, paid 13.9% in taxes. Seems fair, eh?
Hell, ill bet YOU paid more in taxes in 2012 then 80% of the members of the upper class... The top 80% of upper class members paid an average of 19.5% in taxes in 2012.
How you can call that fair is beyond me, but when u just wanna bash the president all day, you'll disband all logic to assert your position is correct...
Oh and let's not forget about those tax free havens overseas rich people love to deposit American made money into...
"its silly liberals and their ideas of high taxes"
FAIR taxes... Not high taxes, FAIR taxes. If you're going to misrepresent a group of people (a conservative favorite) at least TRY to understand what issue the group is trying to present... Then if you disagree, present your argument. But to say liberals want higher taxes is grossly misrepresenting what we are ACTUALLY saying...
However, a conservative misrepresenting what liberals are saying is basically the only strategy you have. Any rational person would see millionaires paying less taxes then middle class families as unfair, hence you have to lie to people about the issues to get people on your side...
this is the 3rd time i tried to reply to this post. does not work this time.. screw it.
Where did I say that was fair? did i say that was fair? no.
Bash Obama? I bashed Bush as well... you seemed to not noticed that. I dont care for either one really. take the good from both mix it in to one and you'd have a good president.
Fair tax? lol coat it any way you want fair tax high tax its all the same with you liberals. is your idea of "fair tax" \$7,000 a year on a \$100,000 house in washington mills ny that isnt worth \$40,000 and you'd be damn lucky to get \$40,000 for when it came time to sell. is that "fair"? NO! 4 acres of bare land (was gonna be a hunting camp but not now with the high tax) out side of washington mills in the sticks with NO well septic or lights is \$950 yr tax... is THAT "fair". I can go one or two states away to Ohio even and my tax wouldnt be 1/3 of that and unlike NY i would have work and a let less laws(ohio is where im moving in 3 months)
my aunt moved to florida her tax on a \$50,000 house is \$500 a yr now that is FAIR. few weeks ago she said 5,000 jobs where coming in in her news viewing area. where i am moving in Ohio had 75 new factories moving in... see the diff between your blue and red states? you damn blue states all you think to do is tax and regulate thats why everyone has left or looking to leave and thats why you have no work. people bitch about the red states well let me tell you something the red states are booming and cutting tax the only thing you blue states are doing is taxing and forcing more people to leave. "fair tax" psssh you liberals dont know the first thing about fair tax. you cant tell me no diff im from new york one of the bluest most liberal states you can get and i know about the over tax/regulations and the no work.
new york no work high tax and lots of laws. yeah thats a blue state for you.
now then no i dont think its fair the rich isnt being taxed more but lets get one thing strait you can not tax business any more than it is otheriwse more will pack up and move to mexico or overseas but the rich sure tax a little more.
people can reply to this till they are blue in the face good chance i will not write back. i came here to state my facts thats it not get in a pissing match with a bunch of people.
and btw i am a Libertarian.

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