Judge Orders Colorado Bakery to Cater...
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the next door neigbor

Rochester, NY

#82 Dec 17, 2013
dew4794 wrote:
The Bill of Right asserts: The will of the majority with respect to the right of the minority. To get the majority to respect rights, the legislatures have supported passing discrimination laws.You are correct, not everyone's group falls under discrimination law, ie Churches don't. If there were no choices, everyone would feel discriminated against. So the laws are group selective.
Recently, sexual orientation has been added to discrimination law. And recently marriage equality is becoming recognized, as in Colorado where the wedding cake issue happened.
But the Majority feels encroached upon my minorities. Our founding fathers struggled with this issue and now we Americans today. What is the best way to guarantee equality for all Americans? Gay Americans tried to win their rights with protest. That didn't work. The Courts have had to step in.
<quoted text>
I agree with most of what you said, but where does it stop? There have been many minority groups that have been discriminated against and no laws were passed to protect them and things all worked out without having special laws. This country has gone way over board passing laws for some while infringing on the rights of others. The more of these "feel good special" laws are passed the more people become bigoted and divided against the ones who demanded them, it is human nature to buck something that is jammed down your throat. I don't care if someone is white, black, Hispanic, gay or green as I treat them as I would anyone else unless they demand me to treat them as something special. I believe that everyone should be treated the same while they should make their own way in life without the government getting involved ,IE: you get what you make of yourself, nothing more, nothing less. Do you think that the Irish should of had special rights to protect them when they first came to America? They were discriminated against more than any gays ever have been.(just one example) The government is way out of line when they try to control the every day aspect of our life. They have no business doing what they are doing as it is not only unconstitutional it is unlawful. I wish that everyone would read the Constitution and understand it, if they did they would see that many of our rights have been trampled on.(S/N: My Master's was in Constitutional Studies and Constitutional Law so that might be why I take a hard nose stand on subjects/laws like these. I don't like seeing what is happening to our rights and freedoms.)

FTW Yall

“"Trust no one"”

Since: Jul 13

Drive it, like you stole it

#83 Dec 17, 2013
dew4794 wrote:
The Bill of Right asserts: The will of the majority with respect to the right of the minority. To get the majority to respect rights, the legislatures have supported passing discrimination laws.You are correct, not everyone's group falls under discrimination law, ie Churches don't. If there were no choices, everyone would feel discriminated against. So the laws are group selective.
Recently, sexual orientation has been added to discrimination law. And recently marriage equality is becoming recognized, as in Colorado where the wedding cake issue happened.
But the Majority feels encroached upon my minorities. Our founding fathers struggled with this issue and now we Americans today. What is the best way to guarantee equality for all Americans? Gay Americans tried to win their rights with protest. That didn't work. The Courts have had to step in.
<quoted text>
Anti-discrimination law does cover religion. It is in the Bill of Rights.
dew4794

Rochester, NY

#84 Dec 17, 2013
FTW Yall wrote:
<quoted text>Anti-discrimination law does cover religion. It is in the Bill of Rights.
I wrote churches, not religion, DS. The baker runs a bakery, not a church.

FTW Yall

“"Trust no one"”

Since: Jul 13

Drive it, like you stole it

#85 Dec 17, 2013
dew4794 wrote:
<quoted text>
I wrote churches, not religion, DS. The baker runs a bakery, not a church.
Oh, sorry I did not realize the Constitution protects people's right to religion only when they are within the doors of their Church.
dew4794

Rochester, NY

#86 Dec 17, 2013
Here is information from CO state govt.
The Colorado Civil Rights laws were written to protect groups of people who historically have been or who might be discriminated against. These protected classes (characteristics) include: Disability, Race, Color, National Origin, Ancestry, Sexual Orientation, Sex (includes pregnancy), Creed, Religion (employment and housing only), Age (employment only), Marriage to a Co-Worker (employment only), Marital Status (housing and public accommodations only), and Familial Status (housing only).

We might argue about who has been discriminated more or less. The purpose of the law is to promote equality and end discrimination for these groups. The baker or the bakery are not protected groups. His religious thinking that he forced onto the public is not protected speech and is not protected under the establishment amendment, in the view of the judge. The judge got it right.
the next door neigbor wrote:
<quoted text>I agree with most of what you said, but where does it stop? There have been many minority groups that have been discriminated against and no laws were passed to protect them and things all worked out without having special laws. This country has gone way over board passing laws for some while infringing on the rights of others. The more of these "feel good special" laws are passed the more people become bigoted and divided against the ones who demanded them, it is human nature to buck something that is jammed down your throat. I don't care if someone is white, black, Hispanic, gay or green as I treat them as I would anyone else unless they demand me to treat them as something special. I believe that everyone should be treated the same while they should make their own way in life without the government getting involved ,IE: you get what you make of yourself, nothing more, nothing less. Do you think that the Irish should of had special rights to protect them when they first came to America? They were discriminated against more than any gays ever have been.(just one example) The government is way out of line when they try to control the every day aspect of our life. They have no business doing what they are doing as it is not only unconstitutional it is unlawful. I wish that everyone would read the Constitution and understand it, if they did they would see that many of our rights have been trampled on.(S/N: My Master's was in Constitutional Studies and Constitutional Law so that might be why I take a hard nose stand on subjects/laws like these. I don't like seeing what is happening to our rights and freedoms.)
dew4794

Rochester, NY

#87 Dec 17, 2013
In theory you are correct. However, the courts have ruled that ministers may still discriminate ie can not be fined for refusing to marry same sex couples or any couples, even if they marry non-married couples as a practice. HOWEVER, if for instance churches rent to the public, they are subject to tax laws and they are subject to business laws because they are operating as a "for profit" business. Public business is subject to discrimination state law.
FTW Yall wrote:
<quoted text> Oh, sorry I did not realize the Constitution protects people's right to religion only when they are within the doors of their Church.

FTW Yall

“"Trust no one"”

Since: Jul 13

Drive it, like you stole it

#88 Dec 17, 2013
dew4794 wrote:
Here is information from CO state govt.
The Colorado Civil Rights laws were written to protect groups of people who historically have been or who might be discriminated against. These protected classes (characteristics) include: Disability, Race, Color, National Origin, Ancestry, Sexual Orientation, Sex (includes pregnancy), Creed, Religion (employment and housing only), Age (employment only), Marriage to a Co-Worker (employment only), Marital Status (housing and public accommodations only), and Familial Status (housing only).
We might argue about who has been discriminated more or less. The purpose of the law is to promote equality and end discrimination for these groups. The baker or the bakery are not protected groups. His religious thinking that he forced onto the public is not protected speech and is not protected under the establishment amendment, in the view of the judge. The judge got it right.
<quoted text>
What about the gay couple forcing their beliefs on the baker?
America the Beautiful

Lyons, NY

#89 Dec 17, 2013
One place you hardly find justice these days will be within the court of law decided by a "judge" sitting on a bench with a gavel in hand.
Most can be paid to decide a case.

Right is still Right, just as wrong will always be wrong.

No judge can turn make a straight direction crooked by bending truth..
dew4794

Rochester, NY

#90 Dec 17, 2013
As of May 1 2013 Colorado"s civil union law now includes same sex couples as it did for different sex couples, part of this decision. The baker violated the discrimination law when he refused public service based on sexual orientation, a protected group.. The couple asked the State to enforce Its State law. Colorado court has agreed with the couple's complaint and has decided to do just that.
But the baker claims protection under the federal establishment clause which he says the State law is unconstitutional. However, SCOTUS is in no mood to interfere with States rights. IMAO the baker will lose on appeal as SCOTUS will refuse to hear the case. And the ruling will stand.
Because businesses will do as they will, govt has passed laws to protect the public; So business Will is limited by law.

FTW Yall

“"Trust no one"”

Since: Jul 13

Drive it, like you stole it

#91 Dec 17, 2013
dew4794 wrote:
As of May 1 2013 Colorado"s civil union law now includes same sex couples as it did for different sex couples, part of this decision. The baker violated the discrimination law when he refused public service based on sexual orientation, a protected group.. The couple asked the State to enforce Its State law. Colorado court has agreed with the couple's complaint and has decided to do just that.
But the baker claims protection under the federal establishment clause which he says the State law is unconstitutional. However, SCOTUS is in no mood to interfere with States rights. IMAO the baker will lose on appeal as SCOTUS will refuse to hear the case. And the ruling will stand.
Because businesses will do as they will, govt has passed laws to protect the public; So business Will is limited by law.
A persons business does not owe anything to the public.
dew4794

Rochester, NY

#92 Dec 17, 2013
Your thread is dangerous because it is just like the mid-eastern countries that base their laws on the truth of the Koran. We have based our laws on the will of the majority with respect to the rights of the minority. Your perception of the truth does not establish American Law.
America the Beautiful wrote:
One place you hardly find justice these days will be within the court of law decided by a "judge" sitting on a bench with a gavel in hand.
Most can be paid to decide a case.
Right is still Right, just as wrong will always be wrong.
No judge can turn make a straight direction crooked by bending truth..

FTW Yall

“"Trust no one"”

Since: Jul 13

Drive it, like you stole it

#93 Dec 17, 2013
dew4794 wrote:
Your thread is dangerous because it is just like the mid-eastern countries that base their laws on the truth of the Koran. We have based our laws on the will of the majority with respect to the rights of the minority. Your perception of the truth does not establish American Law.
<quoted text>
Other way around buddy Your the imposer of will. Your thinking is dangerous. Your giving government powers on the people it should not and is not supposed to have. Like Neighbor wrote. Where does it end?
What legal precedents does it bring? You don't understand the effects of these types of decisions. It says that rights are malleable. You need to look ahead to the future of what these decisions do to the legal system and our rights as people. The end does not justify the means.
dew4794

Rochester, NY

#94 Dec 18, 2013
The bakery business can obey the law, pay the fine, go out of business, or move to a State with different laws. However these discrimination laws are coming to a state near YOU. his appeal will lose.

`
FTW Yall wrote:
<quoted text>A persons business does not owe anything to the public.
dew4794

Rochester, NY

#95 Dec 18, 2013
You don't like discrimination law? You think these laws are dangerous to your freedom? You think discrimination law darkens our future? Get off your ass and go do something about them.
That is your right. It has taken the lgbtq minority since 1969 to do just that.
FTW Yall wrote:
<quoted text>Other way around buddy Your the imposer of will. Your thinking is dangerous. Your giving government powers on the people it should not and is not supposed to have. Like Neighbor wrote. Where does it end?
What legal precedents does it bring? You don't understand the effects of these types of decisions. It says that rights are malleable. You need to look ahead to the future of what these decisions do to the legal system and our rights as people. The end does not justify the means.
dew4794

Rochester, NY

#96 Dec 18, 2013
Business must obey the law or receive the consequences. They owe the public that.
FTW Yall wrote:
<quoted text>A persons business does not owe anything to the public.
dew4794

Rochester, NY

#97 Dec 18, 2013
Pastor Goodrich wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a private business, with the right to refuse service to anyone who is unacceptable. I believe any thinking person would agree that gays are despicable. This is irrefutable.
You have just confirmed why we need discrimination law in the first.
effoffags

Jacksonville, NC

#98 Dec 18, 2013
Flamers are gay people who like rainbows , puppies and bears .

Flee Libtard states and these = idiots won't bother you .

here on the USMC base all one must do to se the impact if gay's is to visit craigs list hook ups and see the men seeking men for gay hookups in the woods or a car or while their wives are away . It is disgusting .

Atleast they have an outlet ... But here they are not in the open . Obviously they are being tracked by way of computer use so someone knows what they are up to by their IP address .

Most gay's want to be left alone . They are not extreme and don't want to define marriage . It's the Zealot gay's w/ the help of the Libtard Fabian socialists who are funding this crap .

FTW Yall

“"Trust no one"”

Since: Jul 13

Drive it, like you stole it

#100 Dec 18, 2013
dew4794 wrote:
Business must obey the law or receive the consequences. They owe the public that.
<quoted text>
The law cannot trump the Constitution.
Chelsinny

Troy, NY

#101 Apr 25, 2014
I am a lesbian and getting married. I can say first hand it is a big inter struggle going out and getting judged constantly. I can see both sides and I would rather someone who doesn't like me not make my cake. But here's the part I don't understand people are hiding behind religion as the excuse to refuse service. I wonder how many gays he has already served and just not known they were? Or if he would also refuse service to someone getting re married? Because he doesn't believe in Divorce. Is that his right also? Or on a really dumbed down level someone wearing two types of material. It's a silly idea but he to would he be able to refuse them as well. You do not have to come but does refusing to make a cake do much. Would they make a cake for our daughters birthday? It's just bad business might as well refuse atheists but that is never a question they ask is it.

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