Indy Commision Election - Who are you...

Indy Commision Election - Who are you voting for?

Created by Just Curious on Feb 19, 2013

153 votes

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Phillip Chappute

Fred Meier

Tony Holmes

Leonard Caflisch

Ned Stichman

Roger Powell

Tim White

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Taxpayer

Aransas Pass, TX

#43 Feb 26, 2013
asked someone wrote:
<quoted text>
You realize you just made the argument that if a city manager decides a department should be run a certain way that that should be good enough? And no, I do not work at the park. However my wife does. Has it occurred to you that the reason things are being brought to light is because she and the 'new reign' are bringing it there? Has it occurred to you that my wife is the one making the lists, doing the research, and coordinating the repair efforts? Has it occurred to you that she has been doing these things since the day she started a few years ago? There has been no standing by. No, sir.
As for facts? Your friend gave away an adult elk, an adult bison, two juvenile bison, two adult llamas, and one aoudad. If you base it on cattle prices at the time, it comes out to about $5000. These are animals that taxpayers paid for by feeding. He did not ask the commission. He did not ask the city manager. He gave away your money.
Your friend has allowed buildings to be built on city property that were never inspected. The city has no blueprints for them.
Your friend filled up city buildings with his personal property. Filled to the point the doors would not open. Filled with trash. Littered with rodent droppings. Covered in mold. And after the 14 months he was given to remove his belongings wasn't enough, he used a city employee and a city vehicle for two working days to remove the rest of his Personal belongings ON YOUR DIME. Then he had the cleaning contractor hired to deal with the mold help him move the extra heavy stuff. ON YOUR DIME.
And when your friend was called to the carpet for these things, he sued the city AND stayed on the payroll - and lost. And appealed while still on the payroll. And lost. How much did That cost you? Better make an open records request...
Evidently things were being run wrong at the park for a LONG, LONG, LONG, time. Perhaps taxpayers should hold ALL PEOPLE IN LEADERSHIP ROLLS during those many, many years (not just "my friend") accountable for the horrible things you cited were allowed to go on: Paul Sasse-why did he permit this? Kelly Passauer-why didn't she do something? The commissioners-why didn't they do something? Maybe we should get rid of Kelly for not doing the job she was paid to do.

If the other things you said cost the city money are true, I can't imagine the total cost would be anywhere close to the nearly $150,000 taxpayers have spent on that Crescent Oil building. If you're going to call out "my friend" for losing $5000-$10000 on the sale of zoo animals, why aren't you calling out the city manager and commissioners for losing over $150,000 in taxpayer dollars on the purchase of a virtually useless building?

Inasmuch as how much "my friend's" lawsuit cost taxpayers, we'll never know how much it cost because no one can't get a straight answer from the city NO MATTER WHAT THEY TRY TO DO TO GET SUCH AN ANSWER. Do you, as an individual so concerned about where our tax dollars go and how they are spent, think that is a good thing, especially when such information is, by law, to be available to the public?

One last thought: Many of the items you have cited have, to the best of my knowledge, have not been released to the public. I hope those items do not come under employer-employee privileges because if they do, I will not only wonder how you came to learn of them (since you would have had no legal right to that information), but also will wonder if another lawsuit may be justifiably filed against the city. I hope not.
asked someone

Coffeyville, KS

#44 Feb 27, 2013
Taxpayer wrote:
<quoted text>
Evidently things were being run wrong at the park for a LONG, LONG, LONG, time. Perhaps taxpayers should hold ALL PEOPLE IN LEADERSHIP ROLLS during those many, many years (not just "my friend") accountable for the horrible things you cited were allowed to go on: Paul Sasse-why did he permit this? Kelly Passauer-why didn't she do something? The commissioners-why didn't they do something? Maybe we should get rid of Kelly for not doing the job she was paid to do.
If the other things you said cost the city money are true, I can't imagine the total cost would be anywhere close to the nearly $150,000 taxpayers have spent on that Crescent Oil building. If you're going to call out "my friend" for losing $5000-$10000 on the sale of zoo animals, why aren't you calling out the city manager and commissioners for losing over $150,000 in taxpayer dollars on the purchase of a virtually useless building?
Inasmuch as how much "my friend's" lawsuit cost taxpayers, we'll never know how much it cost because no one can't get a straight answer from the city NO MATTER WHAT THEY TRY TO DO TO GET SUCH AN ANSWER. Do you, as an individual so concerned about where our tax dollars go and how they are spent, think that is a good thing, especially when such information is, by law, to be available to the public?
One last thought: Many of the items you have cited have, to the best of my knowledge, have not been released to the public. I hope those items do not come under employer-employee privileges because if they do, I will not only wonder how you came to learn of them (since you would have had no legal right to that information), but also will wonder if another lawsuit may be justifiably filed against the city. I hope not.
Well lucky for me, they don't. There are too many pictures out there of his mess. There have been park and zoo walk throughs where these questions were raised by those attending. None of these things are secrets. Folks have been trying to let your friend save face but the more he makes himself out to be the messiah of Independence, the less those folks can keep quiet. He has wasted taxpayer dollars for decades and now he has an agenda to make city hall pay for holding him accountable. If you choose to believe his lies, do so, but don't expect anyone else to accept them. Once again, during his entire campaign he has said not one word about how well he did at his Last job.
Taxpayer

Aransas Pass, TX

#45 Feb 27, 2013
asked someone wrote:
<quoted text>
Well lucky for me, they don't. There are too many pictures out there of his mess. There have been park and zoo walk throughs where these questions were raised by those attending. None of these things are secrets. Folks have been trying to let your friend save face but the more he makes himself out to be the messiah of Independence, the less those folks can keep quiet. He has wasted taxpayer dollars for decades and now he has an agenda to make city hall pay for holding him accountable. If you choose to believe his lies, do so, but don't expect anyone else to accept them. Once again, during his entire campaign he has said not one word about how well he did at his Last job.
There are pictures "of his mess" and the city has shown them to the public at every opportunity it gets. A few of them are shown for no reason other than publicly humiliate him which is very confusing. Considering Micky Webb's past, one would think he would understand the sting of public humiliation and not subject the employees under him to it. Instead, he seems to revel in it.

You didn't address my questions about holding other people accountable for this mess and countless other decisions that have wasted our money. If the people in charge knew things were not being done acceptably at the park and didn't do anything about it, aren't they as much to blame as "my friend"? Weren't were paying them with our tax dollars to oversee everything going on in the city, including the park and zoo? Some of these people were the same ones that ignored federal ADA mandates for years which resulted in the huge mess we're in now. Why have they not been held accountable and let go for that or are the rules different depending who you are?

The current leaders have bought up all sorts of properties and taken them off the tax rolls? Do you know how much that has cost taxpayers? The current leaders had to pay a big fine as part of another settlement agreement for EPA infractions. Do you know how much that has cost taxpayers? The current leaders have crammed all emergency departments in City Hall so they can give the impression we need another City Hall (while the old EMS station is being used for storage). Do you know how much that has cost taxpayers? This list goes on and on and on. If you compared what "my friend" cost taxpayers to what the current leaders have cost taxpayers, it would be a drop in the bucket.

Lastly, I want to make it very clear this person is not "my friend." I also do not believe everything anyone tells me, including "my friend." I try to look at things objectively from both sides, unlike you who seems to apply double standards in all your reasoning.
asked someone

Coffeyville, KS

#46 Feb 27, 2013
You cannot Possibly be making the argument that Ned wasted less tax money than city hall did so he shouldn't be held accountable, are you? You cannot possibly be making the argument that city leaders should be held accountable for every red cent - just not This guy. Can you? Really?

Listen, If he is humiliated it's because he Should be. He cared so little for city property before but Now he'll take care of things? He cared so little about minding others' money before but Now he'll be responsible? He proved himself incapable and unwilling to use sound judgement before but Now he'll set the city straight?

And I want to thank you for enforcing my point. When people who are entrusted with taxpayer money fritter it away by doing things like paying a tree service nearly $700 dollars to remove ONE limb when we have city staff (and a bucket truck) that can do it, it makes me angry. When we have a department head who holds himself up as the protector of history who refuses to do basic maintenance or CLEAN HIS OFFICE, who's actions time and again hasten the demise of those special places we want to pass along to our children and grandchildren, it makes me angry. Paul Sasse is to blame for ADA mandates not being met - and I would imagine whomever was in charge of ADA compliance as well. Paul Sasse is ultimately to blame for keeping a man on YOUR payroll who could not find time to do his job. You should really ask him about that the next time you see him. The difference? Paul Sasse isn't running for commission. Paul Sasse is not claiming he will return Independence to it's former glory.

As for the building purchases, frankly, I don't agree with all of them. At least I didn't. The Union Gas building was purchased for $90,000.(Did you know they Actually purchased the entire QUARTER BLOCK for that?) If you were to get a mortgage for $90,000, put no money down, on a 15 year note, at 3.86% interest, the payment would be $658.18 a month. There are two businesses renting the bottom floor. I asked, they pay $450 a month in rent. That's $241.82 extra. As for the church? Meh, they really Do need to come up with an alternative in case the very kind owner of Autozone says no more. That one I'm still on the fence about. The houses on south 5th? Have you Seen the inside. My wife has. One of them has the whole center caving in. A couple have been completely stripped. She has permission to go in them, I bet she'd take you if you wanted to see for yourself.

Ultimately, Ned is responsible for Ned. He dropped the ball in the biggest way. If what that park looked like when he left is "moving ahead with Ned" you can count me out. I'm not certain how you can look at things objectively if you haven't been to his last place of employment. Have you been there? Because, again, he doesn't seem to want to talk about that...
Taxpayer

Aransas Pass, TX

#47 Mar 1, 2013
If people questioned the conditions at the park, why didn't city leaders do something about them THEN? Why should THEY not be held accountable for allowing things to deteriorate to the point they were being noticed and were possibly dangerous? The same inaction and accountablity factor applies to ADA.

"He cared so little for city property before but Now he'll take care of things? He cared so little about minding others' money before but Now he'll be responsible? He proved himself incapable and unwilling to use sound judgement before but Now he'll set the city straight?" These same questions could be posed to Tim White and other city leaders.

The city has asked its workers to complete dangerous jobs (church demolition) and at least one job that city ordinances forbade them from doing. There may have been a recent incident where OSHA laws may have been violated which, if true, may result in fines. In the last five years, the city has paid out $500,000.00 in workers comp claims. This amount could have instead paid for 1/3-1/4 of the total costs of the proposals for city hall improvements. I don't have the full story on the $700.00 limb removal, but the above suggests Ned's decision may have been the right one.

The reason the city got such a good deal on the block of buildings that include of Union Gas is because it sat on the market for years with no takers. You are wrong about both the purchase price of the property and the rent. Your hypothetical is irrelevant. The real bottom line is has the rental income paid for all the bills which include insurance, property taxes, utilities, costly repairs etc.? If not, taxpayers are losing.

I don't need your wife to show me through one of the houses to be demolished for Penn Terrace parking because I HAVE been through one of them. The city should have condemned some of those homes YEARS AGO. Since it didn't, taxpayers now have to pay for the homes, the land, and the demolition.

Consider all the properties the city has purchased and taken off the property rolls. Less revenues from these potential property taxes have to be made up elsewhere (for example higher taxes):
Union Gas properties, home and church on Locust, nearly a block of lots on South Penn and South 6th.

Consider the few parking spaces that will result from the church lot and factor the "per space" cost. It's astronomical.

You are fortunate you can get information from the city just by asking. There are those of us it discriminates against by making us use other means to get it.

Since: Oct 10

Independence, Kansas

#48 Mar 1, 2013
asked someone wrote:
The Union Gas building was purchased for $90,000.(Did you know they Actually purchased the entire QUARTER BLOCK for that?) If you were to get a mortgage for $90,000, put no money down, on a 15 year note, at 3.86% interest, the payment would be $658.18 a month. There are two businesses renting the bottom floor. I asked, they pay $450 a month in rent. That's $241.82 extra.
Apparently you have not seen the condition of the roof, or the plumbing in the buildings. It is a quarter block of liabilities that your "extra" $241.82 will not begin to cover.

This does not even address the parking issue that will be a problem if the city decides to utilize the old Union Gas Building as a city hall. No parking for employees (except for maybe 4 spaces in the alley) that would work there or persons that must do business with the city.

Total waste of taxpayer funds...

I do agree with you that Sasse side-stepped the ADA issue and cost the city big bucks.
question

Aransas Pass, TX

#49 Mar 1, 2013
Indy_Dick wrote:
<quoted text>Apparently you have not seen the condition of the roof, or the plumbing in the buildings. It is a quarter block of liabilities that your "extra" $241.82 will not begin to cover.
This does not even address the parking issue that will be a problem if the city decides to utilize the old Union Gas Building as a city hall. No parking for employees (except for maybe 4 spaces in the alley) that would work there or persons that must do business with the city.
Total waste of taxpayer funds...
I do agree with you that Sasse side-stepped the ADA issue and cost the city big bucks.
city says going to use 1 row of city parking behind apple tree inn.
Vultures

Aransas Pass, TX

#50 Mar 2, 2013
It sounds like things needed to be fixed at the park for a long time and everyone in charge knew it but didn't do anything about it.Micky Webb comes to town and all the people who should have done something and were getting paid to do something, but did nothing, jumped on his bandwagon and started putting down Ned. Like a bunch of vultures picking a dead animal carcass in the middle of the road.I agree.The people in charge that did nothing were just as accountable as Ned for the way the park was.Maybe the magnifying glass should have been turned their way too.
waaa waaa

Coffeyville, KS

#51 Mar 2, 2013
Vultures wrote:
It sounds like things needed to be fixed at the park for a long time and everyone in charge knew it but didn't do anything about it.Micky Webb comes to town and all the people who should have done something and were getting paid to do something, but did nothing, jumped on his bandwagon and started putting down Ned. Like a bunch of vultures picking a dead animal carcass in the middle of the road.I agree.The people in charge that did nothing were just as accountable as Ned for the way the park was.Maybe the magnifying glass should have been turned their way too.
I agree that the former city manager is just as guilty. Park and zoo employees Did, in fact, go to him with these issues and he turned a blind eye to it. They were very grateful when the new city manager chose to address the deteriorating and dangerous conditions. And may I point out that if Paul Had disciplined Ned for the conditions at the park, you would have branded Him an evil dictator, too. Paul Sasse's negligence in no way makes Ned Less culpable for the ridiculous and, in some cases, illegal operation and conditions at the park and zoo. Try as you might to deflect attention from Ned, the difference remains that NED IS RUNNING FOR COMMISSION. NED IS CLAIMING HE WILL FIX ALL YOUR PROBLEMS. NED IS CLAIMING HE IS THE PRESERVER OF HISTORICAL BUILDINGS. But pictures do not lie, do they?
Vultures

Aransas Pass, TX

#52 Mar 2, 2013
waaa waaa wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that the former city manager is just as guilty. Park and zoo employees Did, in fact, go to him with these issues and he turned a blind eye to it. They were very grateful when the new city manager chose to address the deteriorating and dangerous conditions. And may I point out that if Paul Had disciplined Ned for the conditions at the park, you would have branded Him an evil dictator, too. Paul Sasse's negligence in no way makes Ned Less culpable for the ridiculous and, in some cases, illegal operation and conditions at the park and zoo. Try as you might to deflect attention from Ned, the difference remains that NED IS RUNNING FOR COMMISSION. NED IS CLAIMING HE WILL FIX ALL YOUR PROBLEMS. NED IS CLAIMING HE IS THE PRESERVER OF HISTORICAL BUILDINGS. But pictures do not lie, do they?
Paul Sasse was Ned's supervisor. Park and zoo employees went to him about problems and, as Ned's supervisor, he considered the situation and determined NOT to do anything about it, as was his right to do as city manager. Since he CHOOSE not to confront Ned with it, Ned had no interactions with his supervisor detailing defiencies, giving required actions and a deadline for correcting those deficiencies. Therefore, Ned did not make any changes to his procedures.

Most people, including me, would not have had any problem with either Paul Sasse or Micky Webb addressing any park problems. The thing we DID have a problem with was the unprofessional and sometimes public manner in which Micky Webb addressed them.

The pictures do not lie. Right now, there are two buildings housing restaurants, one building housing a large retailer, at least one building housing a small business, one building housing a science and technology center, and one building which now provides very nice housing for individuals qualifying for it. Had Ned not stepped in and preserved these buildings, we may have had even more empty, decaying buildings downtown. In the case of the building now housing apartments, if Ned hadn't have stepped in after that place burned, spent thousands of his own dollars to shore up the roof and do other things to stabilize the building, spent thousands of dollars more to pay for the insurance and property taxes for years before someone purchased it and rehabed it, the building would have been torn down, leaving an ugly, empty lot. Instead, an old building has been preserved, renovated, and put to use. All of this shows Ned's sincere dedication to this community. If you can't accept it, it is because you refuse to open your narrow mind and blind eyes and take in the truth. What have YOU done to show your love for the City of Independence, outside of what you are paid to do for it?

also

Aransas Pass, TX

#53 Mar 2, 2013
We can't forget the number of people these places employ and how many people from out of town they attract that could do business with other stores in town and how much they collect in sales tax. We are also making money from Ned's property taxes. It sounds like to me Ned is really helping this town.
True

Aransas Pass, TX

#54 Mar 3, 2013
City employee griping about Ned hasn't done anything extra for Indy because that person doesn't live in Indy. Rules need to change so city employees have to live in town.

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