3 Myths Used by Gun Advocates

3 Myths Used by Gun Advocates

Posted in the Independence Forum

First Prev
of 3
Next Last

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#1 Jan 21, 2013
http://guninformation.org/

"1. MYTH: "Guns don't kill, people kill people" is a good argument against gun control.

TRUTH: This pro-gun argument makes about as much sense as claiming that "glasses don't see, eyes see" is a good argument against wearing glasses. Glasses are a tool which help people to see just as guns are a tool that help people to kill and injure others. Empirical research indicates that firearms increase the chances that a crime will turn deadly. A study done by the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence reported that a victim is about five times more likely to survive if an attacker is armed with a knife rather than a gun. Furthermore, The International Crime Victim Survey concluded that there is a correlation between gun ownership and an increase in both homicide and suicide. "The present study, based on a sample of eighteen countries, confirms the result of previous work based on the 14 countries surveyed during the first International Crime Survey. Substantial correlations were found between gun ownership and gun-related as well as total homicide and suicide rates. Widespread gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other potententially lethal weapons less often when more guns are available, but more guns usually means more victims of homicide and suicide."

2. MYTH: If you outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns.

TRUTH: If you outlaw guns, very few criminals will have guns. In America guns start out legal. Then they enter the black market one way or the other. So if you have less legal guns then there will less guns entering the black market and consequently less outlaws owning guns. Think about it. Nations with very strict gun control laws such as the UK, Australia, and Japan have much lower gun crime rates than the US. The most probable explanation for this is that criminals in the US have much greater access to guns due to less gun control. Saying "If you outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns" is very misleading and completely absurd. If you outlaw guns, less outlaws will have guns. Would you rather have more or less outlaws owning guns? The answer is obvious.

3. MYTH: People in Switzerland are heavily armed. There is an assault weapon in every Swiss home.

TRUTH: It's true that Swiss soldiers are required to keep their assault rifles at home. How big is the Swiss Army? 400,000. There are about 3 million Swiss households. 400,000/3,000,000= 0.133. Therefore, there is a military assault rifle in about 13% of Swiss homes. Switzerland also has rather strict gun control laws. In Switzerland a permit is required in order to purchase a weapon (The permit shows that you are at least 18 and don't have a criminal record). A permit is also required to carry a weapon. Such a permit is mostly issued to people who work in security-type occupations. To obtain this permit, you have to demonstrate that you need to carry a weapon and that you know how to handle a gun safely and have knowledge of the law regarding firearms use. Soldiers in the Swiss Army are required to store their military weapons at home under lock and key and to undergo regular training. Strict gun laws in Switzerland minimize the dangers of gun ownership."
anti-gun

Coffeyville, KS

#2 Jan 21, 2013
Good read. The thrid myth has been used on this forum by gun nuts.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/independence-...

Since: Oct 10

Independence, Kansas

#3 Jan 21, 2013
Katniss258 wrote:
http://guninformation.org/
"1. MYTH: "Guns don't kill, people kill people" is a good argument against gun control.
TRUTH: This pro-gun argument makes about as much sense as claiming that "glasses don't see, eyes see" is a good argument against wearing glasses. Glasses are a tool which help people to see just as guns are a tool that help people to kill and injure others. Empirical research indicates that firearms increase the chances that a crime will turn deadly. A study done by the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence reported that a victim is about five times more likely to survive if an attacker is armed with a knife rather than a gun. Furthermore, The International Crime Victim Survey concluded that there is a correlation between gun ownership and an increase in both homicide and suicide. "The present study, based on a sample of eighteen countries, confirms the result of previous work based on the 14 countries surveyed during the first International Crime Survey. Substantial correlations were found between gun ownership and gun-related as well as total homicide and suicide rates. Widespread gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other potententially lethal weapons less often when more guns are available, but more guns usually means more victims of homicide and suicide."
2. MYTH: If you outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns.
TRUTH: If you outlaw guns, very few criminals will have guns. In America guns start out legal. Then they enter the black market one way or the other. So if you have less legal guns then there will less guns entering the black market and consequently less outlaws owning guns. Think about it. Nations with very strict gun control laws such as the UK, Australia, and Japan have much lower gun crime rates than the US. The most probable explanation for this is that criminals in the US have much greater access to guns due to less gun control. Saying "If you outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns" is very misleading and completely absurd. If you outlaw guns, less outlaws will have guns. Would you rather have more or less outlaws owning guns? The answer is obvious.
3. MYTH: People in Switzerland are heavily armed. There is an assault weapon in every Swiss home.
TRUTH: It's true that Swiss soldiers are required to keep their assault rifles at home. How big is the Swiss Army? 400,000. There are about 3 million Swiss households. 400,000/3,000,000= 0.133. Therefore, there is a military assault rifle in about 13% of Swiss homes. Switzerland also has rather strict gun control laws. In Switzerland a permit is required in order to purchase a weapon (The permit shows that you are at least 18 and don't have a criminal record). A permit is also required to carry a weapon. Such a permit is mostly issued to people who work in security-type occupations. To obtain this permit, you have to demonstrate that you need to carry a weapon and that you know how to handle a gun safely and have knowledge of the law regarding firearms use. Soldiers in the Swiss Army are required to store their military weapons at home under lock and key and to undergo regular training. Strict gun laws in Switzerland minimize the dangers of gun ownership."
With regards to "Myth" number 2: If guns are outlawed, I believe that what would actually happen is that outlaws will actually start stealing guns from gun owners that did not turn guns in (and their would be several million of those).

Other sources of guns would be "gun running" from outside the United States; which I'm sure would be as successful as "rum running" during the Prohibition era and "drug running" during the War ON Drugs era. Fortunes will be made on selling illicit guns to criminals should honest citizens be told to turn in guns or face fine and prison.
hey muffin cake

Independence, KS

#4 Jan 21, 2013
Katniss258 wrote:
http://guninformation.org/
"1. MYTH: "Guns don't kill, people kill people" is a good argument against gun control.
TRUTH: This pro-gun argument makes about as much sense as claiming that "glasses don't see, eyes see" is a good argument against wearing glasses. Glasses are a tool which help people to see just as guns are a tool that help people to kill and injure others. Empirical research indicates that firearms increase the chances that a crime will turn deadly. A study done by the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence reported that a victim is about five times more likely to survive if an attacker is armed with a knife rather than a gun. Furthermore, The International Crime Victim Survey concluded that there is a correlation between gun ownership and an increase in both homicide and suicide. "The present study, based on a sample of eighteen countries, confirms the result of previous work based on the 14 countries surveyed during the first International Crime Survey. Substantial correlations were found between gun ownership and gun-related as well as total homicide and suicide rates. Widespread gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other potententially lethal weapons less often when more guns are available, but more guns usually means more victims of homicide and suicide."
2. MYTH: If you outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns.
TRUTH: If you outlaw guns, very few criminals will have guns. In America guns start out legal. Then they enter the black market one way or the other. So if you have less legal guns then there will less guns entering the black market and consequently less outlaws owning guns. Think about it. Nations with very strict gun control laws such as the UK, Australia, and Japan have much lower gun crime rates than the US. The most probable explanation for this is that criminals in the US have much greater access to guns due to less gun control. Saying "If you outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns" is very misleading and completely absurd. If you outlaw guns, less outlaws will have guns. Would you rather have more or less outlaws owning guns? The answer is obvious.
3. MYTH: People in Switzerland are heavily armed. There is an assault weapon in every Swiss home.
TRUTH: It's true that Swiss soldiers are required to keep their assault rifles at home. How big is the Swiss Army? 400,000. There are about 3 million Swiss households. 400,000/3,000,000= 0.133. Therefore, there is a military assault rifle in about 13% of Swiss homes. Switzerland also has rather strict gun control laws. In Switzerland a permit is required in order to purchase a weapon (The permit shows that you are at least 18 and don't have a criminal record). A permit is also required to carry a weapon. Such a permit is mostly issued to people who work in security-type occupations. To obtain this permit, you have to demonstrate that you need to carry a weapon and that you know how to handle a gun safely and have knowledge of the law regarding firearms use. Soldiers in the Swiss Army are required to store their military weapons at home under lock and key and to undergo regular training. Strict gun laws in Switzerland minimize the dangers of gun ownership."
Thank GOD we have the Bill of Rights! Oooo, and it is the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of conveniences. or the Bill of what a ignorant liberal sees fit! I'll keep my guns, you keep your abortions!

Since: Oct 10

Independence, Kansas

#5 Jan 21, 2013
I see undergrund machine shops opening up to manufacture illict guns for use in criminal activity should national confiscation of guns become a reality.

I also see the use of explosive devices increase, if guns are not vailabe for criminal activity...

...what is the Government going to do then? Limit the amount of explosives used in any one given bomb? Require all bomb makers to get a permit? A background check for potential bomb makers?

Criminals will have guns if that is what it takes to get the job done...no government will ever be able to stop that kind of activity. To believe otherwise is naive...
hey muffin cake

Independence, KS

#6 Jan 21, 2013
Here is another non myth you can put in your bong and smoke katniss!
Oklahomas own!!!!!!
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp...
hey muffin cake

Independence, KS

#7 Jan 21, 2013
Katniss, here is another morsel for your sneak a toke!

http://www.fiscalconservatives.com/videos/uWw...

Since: Oct 10

Independence, Kansas

#8 Jan 21, 2013
The International Crime Victim Survey (ICVS) series was developed by the ICVS international working group. Overall funding was provided by the Ministry of Justice of the Netherlands.

This is a foreign group that is attempting to interfere with the rights of American citizens...

If they want to outlaw guns in the Netherlands, I don't have a problem with that if that is what the people of Netherlands wants and decides...it's their country...and I will keep my nose out of their business...I promise!

...however, I take exception to persons not in this country trying to tell us what is best for us...that is up to the citizens of the United States...
hey muffin cake

Independence, KS

#9 Jan 21, 2013
The feds should outlaw Cocain, and Meth. It would be nice to get it off the street. They should also outlaw robbery, drinking while driving, abuse, murder, and lots of other things...

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#10 Jan 21, 2013
Indy_Dick wrote:
The International Crime Victim Survey (ICVS) series was developed by the ICVS international working group. Overall funding was provided by the Ministry of Justice of the Netherlands.
This is a foreign group that is attempting to interfere with the rights of American citizens...
I'm not sure where you're getting that. ICVS is generally thought to be the best objective and reliable statistics on worldwide crime. It's an in-depth "analysis of how risks of crime vary among different groups of populations across social and demographic lines." How is it interfering with American rights? Because we don't like the answers it gives? Just because it was the Netherlands, and not the U.S., who created and funded it, doesn't make it less respected or valid. America participated in it! About the only criticism of it I found online was that there wasn't enough countries surveyed, especially third world countries. Lack of funds was the reason. Generally though, the ICVS seems pretty well thought of.

Since: Oct 10

Independence, Kansas

#11 Jan 21, 2013
Katniss258 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure where you're getting that. ICVS is generally thought to be the best objective and reliable statistics on worldwide crime. It's an in-depth "analysis of how risks of crime vary among different groups of populations across social and demographic lines." How is it interfering with American rights? Because we don't like the answers it gives? Just because it was the Netherlands, and not the U.S., who created and funded it, doesn't make it less respected or valid. America participated in it! About the only criticism of it I found online was that there wasn't enough countries surveyed, especially third world countries. Lack of funds was the reason. Generally though, the ICVS seems pretty well thought of.
The goverment of the Netherlands through their "Ministry of Justice" provided the funding.

I object to governments interfering with the internal affairs of other countries. This would include the United States interfering with the internal affairs of the Netherlands.

They are attempting to influence our lawmakers to change laws that are a basic part of our country for over 200 years. If anyone has the right to influence our lawmakers it is the electorate of the United States.

You can say anything you want if you massage the statistics long enough and are so determined to do it...

Since: Oct 10

Independence, Kansas

#12 Jan 21, 2013
Here's an interesting thought... I wonder what percent of the people in the United States would actually turn in their guns if told that they were required to; assuming that a law were passed in Congress and signed by the President?

Another thought...how many of those same members of Congress would get re-elected in the next election?

Another thought...How much bloodshed would occur if the Armed Forces and local police or Sheriff came around to collect guns door to door?

Another thought...how does my responsible use of firearms legally for the purposes of target practice, hunting and protection of my home related to CRIMINAL use by others to rob, loot, steal, rape and murder?

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#13 Jan 21, 2013
Indy_Dick wrote:
Here's an interesting thought... I wonder what percent of the people in the United States would actually turn in their guns if told that they were required to; assuming that a law were passed in Congress and signed by the President?
Another thought...how many of those same members of Congress would get re-elected in the next election?
Another thought...How much bloodshed would occur if the Armed Forces and local police or Sheriff came around to collect guns door to door?
Another thought...how does my responsible use of firearms legally for the purposes of target practice, hunting and protection of my home related to CRIMINAL use by others to rob, loot, steal, rape and murder?
I don't think I've ever said every gun should be taken away from every American. I don't object to you having a gun, if you can regularly prove to law enforcement and the public that you're mentally fit, law-abiding, and able to operate said gun. No matter which side you're on, we all don't want to see firearms in the hands of nuts, criminals, or people who don't know what they're doing. We just don't agree on what method to use to get to that point.
Beaner

Coffeyville, KS

#14 Jan 21, 2013
It would be nice if everyone on each side of this discussion were to tune in to the latest crime statistics from the last country to confiscate guns of the law abiding. Try Australia for instance. And this is reporting from law enforcement there. I already know what it is. Saw it today. Report back here if you would.
Bath Salts

Chanute, KS

#15 Jan 21, 2013
Forget the crime statistics. We really want to control the mass or multiple killings. Single homicides are not what the govt wants to control.
Regarding Australia, since their gun legislation in 1996, there has been one multiple murder case. ONE. There were more multiple shooting cases on Gun appreciation day here in the US. LOL.
It is common to make the stats fit your point. The government wants to stop the mass shootings like Columbine, VTech, Aurora, Newtown, New Mexico this weekend. Match apples to apples sir, not apples to oranges.
weapon of ASSault

Chanute, KS

#16 Jan 21, 2013
hey muffin cake wrote:
<quoted text>Thank GOD we have the Bill of Rights! Oooo, and it is the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of conveniences. or the Bill of what a ignorant liberal sees fit! I'll keep my guns, you keep your abortions!
The Bill of RIGHTS is is severely taken advantage of!!http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs /abc-blogs/kindergartner-suspe nded-over-bubble-gun-threat-17 4618051--abc-news-topstories.h tml
Old Salt

Independence, KS

#17 Jan 21, 2013
hey muffin cake wrote:
The feds should outlaw Cocain, and Meth. It would be nice to get it off the street. They should also outlaw robbery, drinking while driving, abuse, murder, and lots of other things...
Hey muffin cake, do you know what KMA means.
Bath Salts

Chanute, KS

#18 Jan 21, 2013
Gun control can work. I haven't seen an automatic weapon used in these senseless mass shootings. That is because those weapons are highly controlled.
Meanwhile, in Australia:[H]omicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But hereís the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasnít been a single one in Australia since.
There was no increase in murders by other means either. There goes the argument that they will just find a different way.

BTW, I am a gun owner and fully support the second amendment.
Bath Salts

Chanute, KS

#19 Jan 21, 2013
Before 1997 in Australia, 24% of murders were committed using a firearm. In 2006-2007, the percentage of murders with firearms was down to 11%. Just numbers and facts my friends.
Now, let's stop talking about this so they don't see that they are correct and try to take away my guns.
Old Salt

Independence, KS

#20 Jan 21, 2013
The gun enthusiasts on this web are very adamant about this subject. But the problem is it is mostly opinions not based of fact. The 2nd Amendment does state that we have the right to bare arms but that doesn't mean guns. It is just so we can wear short sleeved shirts. LOL. I find this whole thread funny. The only people who make sense are those who don't misinterpret posted articles previously published in accredited news sources or research completed by our Universities.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 3
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Independence Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
$500 reward cash ! 2 hr Observer 3
Systemic Problems at ICC 8 hr Crusher 19
Is it time for Louis to get another petition go... 10 hr AssHat 20
Cable None 10 hr this aint tulsa 6
Tyson plant in Kansas not likely 16 hr ghost town coming 10
Last Post Wins (Mar '12) Mon Princess Hey 629
Caston Thread Deleted Again Mon Sherlock Holmes 8

Independence Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Independence Mortgages