Village and Town Water Agreements

Village and Town Water Agreements

Posted in the Ilion Forum

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sunshine

Harrisville, NY

#1 Feb 27, 2009
PEZ;

Fifteen years on the Water Board , and you have not yet offered an opininon on the current dispute between the Village of Ilion and Town of Frankfort for water services.
You were on the Water Board when this agreement was established, care to shed some "light"?
taxpayer

Myrtle Beach, SC

#2 Feb 28, 2009
apparently Pez used his monthly posting ration...sure he will be back 03/01
PEZ Golf

Vernon, NY

#4 Mar 3, 2009
taxpayer wrote:
apparently Pez used his monthly posting ration...sure he will be back 03/01
I already responded to this question, but here we go again: do you remember about 10 years ago, when a group of residents in East Frankfort wanted to leave the Town of Frankfort and be annexed by the Village of Ilion? Joe Kinney and the Town Board fought it in the courts and lost! The residents wanted to pay regular water rates and be served by the Ilion Fire Department. They are now part of the Village of Ilion and are happy with our water AND NO 50% surcharge.
The present dispute is headed to the residents turning to the Town of Frankfort for water and CUTTING OFF ILION. David Brewer wrote a Letter to the Editor of the "Telegram" that was published on Friday, February 27th, that summarizes their sentiments. This is a bitter dispute that will have long lasting consequences and Ilion may lose customers for their water as a result!
PEZ Golf

Vernon, NY

#5 Mar 3, 2009
taxpayer wrote:
apparently Pez used his monthly posting ration...sure he will be back 03/01
NOT CORRECT. My home and business computer for "The Golf News" got a virus last Friday and is being "cleansed". I should have it back by this Friday, so I am using the computers in the Ilion FREE Public Library, for FREE, of course!
pez get a life

Syracuse, NY

#6 Mar 3, 2009
mitch, get a life! we live near pez and can';t stand it. we want to see if we can get him kicked out of ilion at least off north st.
Not everything is true

Long Eddy, NY

#7 Mar 3, 2009
The Town of Frankfort has no water supply or system.If the residents feel they want to go their own way they are free to explore the costs. And if the residents believe the numbers that the town supervisor was quoted in the paper then I wish all good luck.
PEZ

Vernon, NY

#8 Mar 4, 2009
pez get a life wrote:
mitch, get a life! we live near pez and can';t stand it. we want to see if we can get him kicked out of ilion at least off north st.
I am staying in the family homestead at 119 East North Street. It was first owned by my Polish grandparents, John and Sophie Pezdek, who left it to my Mom and Dad, and they left it to me! My grandparents moved to Ilion in the 1920's, and my Grandpa owned and ran "Pezdek" Meat Market" on McGowan Road in East Franfort from the 1920's to the early 1960's. My Mom and Dad worked at Univac in Ilion until they left to go to Salt Lake City and Bristol, Tennessee, so we have a life-time commitment to this Village!

When my wife and I were married in 1979, we rented an apartment on the second floor of 16 Grant Street for 3 years, then bought the house at 30 West Clark Street, and then bought the house at 351 Otsego Street, which we still own but are in the process of selling.

We will probably live in Ilion until the day we die, so the people here will have us around to contribute positively to the great Village of Ilion, the Town that Remington MADE (according to Warren Shultz in his book), and THE PEZ made FAMOUS with "The Golf News" and the website www.the-golfnews.com !!
No more subsidies

Harrisville, NY

#9 Mar 7, 2009
PEZ Golf wrote:
<quoted text>
I already responded to this question, but here we go again: do you remember about 10 years ago, when a group of residents in East Frankfort wanted to leave the Town of Frankfort and be annexed by the Village of Ilion? Joe Kinney and the Town Board fought it in the courts and lost! The residents wanted to pay regular water rates and be served by the Ilion Fire Department. They are now part of the Village of Ilion and are happy with our water AND NO 50% surcharge.
The present dispute is headed to the residents turning to the Town of Frankfort for water and CUTTING OFF ILION. David Brewer wrote a Letter to the Editor of the "Telegram" that was published on Friday, February 27th, that summarizes their sentiments. This is a bitter dispute that will have long lasting consequences and Ilion may lose customers for their water as a result!
Pez;

This reponse shows just how uninformed you are about this issue and the Agreement that was written under your watch.
What the village is attempting to accomplish, as expressed by the Mayor, MUB, and legal counsel, is to accurately enforce an existing contract and agreement, that was NOT done so since the conception of the Agreement in 1989. Becuase of this,the burden of re-couping such costs, has been wrongly placed on the shoulders of ALL water users, and the tax payers of Ilion, when these costs should have been absorbed by the Town of Frankfort.
The Town of Frankfort enjoys 365 days a year, of uninterrupted, safe potable water, in which enables them to have adequate fire protection, and opportunity for economic and residential growth due to this availability and service.
The dispute is not with the residents paying their quartely consumption fee, but with the Town receiving subsidized and or inadequate payment for services, such as fire protection, readiness to serve, Bulk consumption, chemicals,equipment, personel, bonding, capitol projects, depreciation, etc. All of this has substantial costs, that are NOT recouped nor intended to be recouped through the indivdual water rates.
These ancillary and governmental fees are standard fees and charges imposed by municipaly owned utilities( water) on municipalities/ townships served out side of the hosts Municpal limits. Look at the agreements bewtween the Mohawk Valley Water Authority and the Municpalities that they serve. It is the the stance of the Village and MUB, that the Courts are quite clear, in the Villages Legal right to charge such fees.
This is not a matter of being unfair, and or forcing The Town to go elsewhere, but an attempt to be proportional partners, in assuring that the water system and it's services continue, at affordable rates for all.
As I am sure, most are aware, the Village Water system is in need of major repairs, in order to ensure that it has treatment capacity to not only adequately supply the residents of Ilion, but also those of the District. These costs have ben estimated at 3-4 million dollars!
Is it feasable, practical, and or fair, for this fee to be added as a surcharge to each and every account? our is it more equitable to possibly add perhaps a small surcharge, and then ask the Districts to Help the Tax payers of Ilion with the indebetedness that would result, in the tune of $200,000 annually just for the interest!
District governements enjoy the services and commodities provided by Ilion at a very affordable rate, and pass their own ancillary charges on to the residents,in the form of a (Town Water Fund Tax) why is it unfair for the Village to do the same?
I beleive what that the Mayor and MUB are attempting to accomplish, is for the Town to step up to its responsabiliies to it's residents in East Frankfort, and to assit the Village with these ancillary and governemental costs.

Kudo's to them!
PEZ GOLF

Canastota, NY

#10 Mar 7, 2009
No more subsidies wrote:
<quoted text>
Pez;
This reponse shows just how uninformed you are about this issue and the Agreement that was written under your watch.
I do not have a copy of the Agreement (or Contract), so I will accept what you say, with this question: if an Agreement has been in existence for many years and not enforced, does that not make that part of the Agreement null and void, and unenforceable? If you and I have an agreement that I am going to pay you for a service (eg. plow my driveway), and you do the service but never bill me, and then, after many years, try to start billing me, I believe the laws that apply to contracts state that I do NOT have to pay you since you failed to do what was required (i.e. bill me). The solution at that point is to negotiate a new contact, and if I do not like that, then I can hire someone else, but you will not get one dime for previous services rendered, since you failed to abide by the terms of the contract. JK Hage should be able to verify whether this is true, and if it is, Ilion will lose in court, just as the Town of Frankfort lost in court when it tried to stop the annexation that I described.
And this brings up a real good question: what is JK Hage's record of success or failure in representing the Village of Ilion as the Village Attorney? Has he lost any cases that resulted in the Village paying out money? How much in total payments has he received each year for services rendered? Is it more or less than previous attorneys? If it is more, how much more, and why is it so high? I plan on submitting a FOIL request with these questions. I already have a good idea what the answers are, and it is time for the taxpayers to be told what I do know. They are "in the dark" on this issue, but I will tell the Mayor that I am glad that you brought this issue up so it can be propery publicized for all to know. You have just provided a great public service to the people of Ilion.
PEZ GOLF

Canastota, NY

#11 Mar 8, 2009
I have this question in terms of proportionality:

Based on the concepts of user fees and fairness, any expenses related to water use and the water system should be paid by the users in a water district outside the Village limits, should they not?

If so, the Town of Frankfort does not need to be involved with the billing or collection of funds. That is a matter between the Village of Ilion and the residents of the water district in East Frankfort, and should be billed to them on a separate bill or on their regular water bill. The Town residents outside of that district do not benefit for the services and the Town, therefore, has no role to play in the billing or payment.

This is what the contract or agreement should say, and I really do not care if the Mohawk Valley Regional Water Authority does it differently. I have had direct experience with Patrick Belcher and his people when they made a presentation to the Water Board to buy us out, which I have already referred to. When I told them that we knew their source of supply was controlled by the Canal Authority (Hinckley Lake), they were surprised that I knew that. They had NO answer as to whether they could be limited in the future as to their water supply. Of course, that did happen two years ago, and is now the cause of litigation and hearings at the level of the State Legislature. You have to be careful of using their policies and procedures as a model of how to do things.

I am emailing this post to Mayor Cushman to see if he agrees with me.
4 Iron from Frankfort

Boonville, NY

#12 Mar 8, 2009
The talk all over Thurston's from Jim Alsante is that Kinney is now BEGGING the Village of Frankfort to give them water for that area.
Didn't Kinney just purchase the old St. Mary's school in the middle of the Village of Frankfort to make it the town hall which takes it off the village and Frankfort school taxrolls ?
Isn't Kinney against new jobs coming into our village to make up some of the loss after the Fork & Hoe closed ?
Is Alsante still looking for the missing bowling balls ?
more questions

Canastota, NY

#13 Mar 8, 2009
Since this is about utilities, I'm wondering if anyone has heard that the mayor has been talking with National Grid about the possibility of them supplying Ilion with electricity. I heard a rumor that he is considering doing away with municipal electric as a way of saving money.
PEZ GOLF

Canastota, NY

#14 Mar 8, 2009
more questions wrote:
Since this is about utilities, I'm wondering if anyone has heard that the mayor has been talking with National Grid about the possibility of them supplying Ilion with electricity. I heard a rumor that he is considering doing away with municipal electric as a way of saving money.
I sure hope that you are wrong. Just ask the people in Herkimer and Little Falls, who sold their municipal electric systems to Niagara Mohawk (now National Grid) who pay as much as triple what we pay in Ilion. It would be a major mistake and a sign of desparation to produce revenue at the expense of the future.

We rejected the proposal from the Mohawk Valley Regional Water Authority to buy up our water system, and I am glad the Board of Water Commissioners did that, and the Village Board backed us up unanimously.
Not everything is true

Long Eddy, NY

#15 Mar 9, 2009
more questions wrote:
Since this is about utilities, I'm wondering if anyone has heard that the mayor has been talking with National Grid about the possibility of them supplying Ilion with electricity. I heard a rumor that he is considering doing away with municipal electric as a way of saving money.
Not true at all. The village would like to supply Remington Arms with low cost power, if it would have no impact on the current rate-payers. Nat. Grid has the "rights" to supply power to the Arms which,I'm told, will expire soon.
PEZ GOLF

Canastota, NY

#16 Mar 9, 2009
Not everything is true wrote:
<quoted text>Not true at all. The village would like to supply Remington Arms with low cost power, if it would have no impact on the current rate-payers. Nat. Grid has the "rights" to supply power to the Arms which,I'm told, will expire soon.
Supplying electricity to the Arms would be a GREAT thing. One of the advantages that Ilion has is a municipal electric system. Supplying the Arms would help Cerberus realize that they made a smart decision when they committed to invest $10 million+ in the Arms plant.
Hey Pez

Syracuse, NY

#17 Mar 9, 2009
we don't care what you think, get a life mitch!
Hey PEZ

Syracuse, NY

#18 Mar 9, 2009
If the Village of Ilion gives up its allotment of low cost power to Remington, the rest of the community will be paying the National Grid rates that you have complained about. It's not an endless well (the low cost power, that is). Ever notice what happens to your rates when the allotment is used up and you are forced to pay a blended rate for your electricity?
Not everything is true

Long Eddy, NY

#19 Mar 9, 2009
Hey PEZ wrote:
If the Village of Ilion gives up its allotment of low cost power to Remington, the rest of the community will be paying the National Grid rates that you have complained about. It's not an endless well (the low cost power, that is). Ever notice what happens to your rates when the allotment is used up and you are forced to pay a blended rate for your electricity?
With all the talk about job retention, I would hope that Ilion would be able to meet the Arms power needs, without affecting the rate payers. That would mean getting more "cheap" power from the Power Authority. I would hope our elected officials, on all levels of government, would support.
PEZ GOLF

Canastota, NY

#20 Mar 9, 2009
Not everything is true wrote:
<quoted text>With all the talk about job retention, I would hope that Ilion would be able to meet the Arms power needs, without affecting the rate payers. That would mean getting more "cheap" power from the Power Authority. I would hope our elected officials, on all levels of government, would support.
I hope that you are right---BUT I do not trust the Power Authority. It is GREAT to save jobs, but if the homeowners' electric rates do go up, they have the right to ask, "How much extra am I going to pay since Cerberus is the owner of the Arms, and their private equity partners, like John Snow, are billionaires?"
I do not know about you, but I am not even a measly millionaire!
HOLICOW

Boonville, NY

#21 Mar 9, 2009
PEZ GOLF wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope that you are right---BUT I do not trust the Power Authority. It is GREAT to save jobs, but if the homeowners' electric rates do go up, they have the right to ask, "How much extra am I going to pay since Cerberus is the owner of the Arms, and their private equity partners, like John Snow, are billionaires?"
I do not know about you, but I am not even a measly millionaire!
Crack does that to a family economy.

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