Charter school implications debated by York City district

Full story: The York Daily Record

The city's middle schools need to be safer and offer a higher quality of education, several parents said during Wednesday's school board meeting.
Comments
1 - 20 of 25 Comments Last updated Feb 12, 2010
First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Man in Black

Baltimore, MD

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1
Nov 19, 2009
 

Judged:

3

2

2

Let us think on this for a moment:

Say we have all these charter schools coming in to save our children. As they take students and $$$ from the district we have less and less to spend on OUR schools. As a result we close schools, layoff teachers and staff, drop activities. This will cause a continuing downward spiral of our schools. Now sy 3 to 5 years later when the charter schools either do not preform up to snuff or we simply have no more money to give, they will close up shop and bug out of town. Leaving the district under staffed, and unequipped to deal with the sudden change in population. This is not fiction the has already happened in many districts, West Chester was one. Lincoln Charter pulled out when the scores for the school were affecting the overall look of Lincoln Charters.

The charter schools are not simply here because they want to do good for the students. If they were they would do it for free. They WANT and NEED the tax dollars. follow the money as always and you will find the truth. Another thing to think on is IF the charter school was SO great and worked SO well. WHY are they not a private School where they can make their OWN money without all the oversight and conditions required as a charter.

When something seems so good it can't be true....
George

Berryville, VA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#2
Nov 19, 2009
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Man in Black wrote:
Let us think on this for a moment:
Say we have all these charter schools coming in to save our children. As they take students and $$$ from the district we have less and less to spend on OUR schools. As a result we close schools, layoff teachers and staff, drop activities. This will cause a continuing downward spiral of our schools. Now sy 3 to 5 years later when the charter schools either do not preform up to snuff or we simply have no more money to give, they will close up shop and bug out of town. Leaving the district under staffed, and unequipped to deal with the sudden change in population. This is not fiction the has already happened in many districts, West Chester was one. Lincoln Charter pulled out when the scores for the school were affecting the overall look of Lincoln Charters.
The charter schools are not simply here because they want to do good for the students. If they were they would do it for free. They WANT and NEED the tax dollars. follow the money as always and you will find the truth. Another thing to think on is IF the charter school was SO great and worked SO well. WHY are they not a private School where they can make their OWN money without all the oversight and conditions required as a charter.
When something seems so good it can't be true....
GREAT post!
Red Hot

Philadelphia, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#3
Nov 19, 2009
 

Judged:

2

2

1

Man in Black wrote:
Let us think on this for a moment:
Say we have all these charter schools coming in to save our children. As they take students and $$$ from the district we have less and less to spend on OUR schools. As a result we close schools, layoff teachers and staff, drop activities. This will cause a continuing downward spiral of our schools. Now sy 3 to 5 years later when the charter schools either do not preform up to snuff or we simply have no more money to give, they will close up shop and bug out of town. Leaving the district under staffed, and unequipped to deal with the sudden change in population. This is not fiction the has already happened in many districts, West Chester was one. Lincoln Charter pulled out when the scores for the school were affecting the overall look of Lincoln Charters.
The charter schools are not simply here because they want to do good for the students. If they were they would do it for free. They WANT and NEED the tax dollars. follow the money as always and you will find the truth. Another thing to think on is IF the charter school was SO great and worked SO well. WHY are they not a private School where they can make their OWN money without all the oversight and conditions required as a charter.
When something seems so good it can't be true....
Cry like a baby...It's ok for the local school district to fleece the money with their mammoth school building projects and turf sports fields, you want to complain about charters..get your head out of the sands..there is a national charter school movement going on..maybe you should take a look outside of York County
Red Hot

Philadelphia, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#4
Nov 19, 2009
 

Judged:

3

3

2

Furthermore...Foust and others have said charters are going to close schools down...charters have been here for 12 years.....They built Ferguson School last year knowing they were losing kids to the charters..yet the did it anyway..The YCSD has been here for 100+ years..and charters are out performing them on so many levels..Charters are here to stay..trust me..here to stay..The district has not raised taxes in the past 4 years..no schools have closed..it's a bunch of garbage and fear...How about do a better job and students won't leave the district it's that simple..
Man in Black

Baltimore, MD

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#5
Nov 19, 2009
 

Judged:

1

1

Red Hot wrote:
Furthermore...Foust and others have said charters are going to close schools down...charters have been here for 12 years.....They built Ferguson School last year knowing they were losing kids to the charters..yet the did it anyway..The YCSD has been here for 100+ years..and charters are out performing them on so many levels..Charters are here to stay..trust me..here to stay..The district has not raised taxes in the past 4 years..no schools have closed..it's a bunch of garbage and fear...How about do a better job and students won't leave the district it's that simple..
a WHOLE 12 years eh? WOW that is a long time.....until you consider that school districts have to plan out MUCH farther than than. How many charters in YORK made AYP? give you a hint it starts with a Z. Charters do not have to deal with the same issues as the public schools. The simple fact they can drop a kid back into public school makes the playing field a little different doesn't it? While they never come out and say it Charter schools cherry pick their students. Leaving all the lower performance, ES, troublemaker kids to the public schools. The SAY they don't but the numbers do not support it.

Do our schools need to change. Yes. Will the changes that will REALLY make a difference show improvement in the short term (5 years) No. School reform, if done properly MUST take a minimum of 12 years. Why so long? Because you can not make up for lost time in education. A student pushed through K-5 to the middle school is NOT going to be able learn the new material while trying to make up the material missed in previous years.

What do charters have that the public schools don't? Parental involvement. Every kid in a charter school is there because a parent got involved with the education process. Likely that was not the extent of their involvement. On average you won't see 10% of the parents of the York city schools show up for a PT night. Or even return calls from teachers.

The schools are only HALF of the education process. PARENTING is a very big part as well.

IF charters are so great, why don't we just farm out our schools to them? shut down every public school in the US and let the charters handle it? As far as i know NO school district has done this. I wonder why?
Man in Black

Baltimore, MD

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6
Nov 19, 2009
 

Judged:

2

2

2

Another thought:

A student run cafe. That will compete against a tax paying business. Hmm that is a real smart idea. How would someone feel if a charter school opened up with a student run _________ that directly competed with your business? How will the City feel when the tax money from that business stops coming in? just a thought.
Man in Black

Baltimore, MD

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#7
Nov 19, 2009
 

Judged:

2

2

2

Red Hot wrote:
<quoted text>
Cry like a baby...It's ok for the local school district to fleece the money with their mammoth school building projects and turf sports fields, you want to complain about charters..get your head out of the sands..there is a national charter school movement going on..maybe you should take a look outside of York County
My wife has 15 years in the education business. Baltimore, York, etc. National awards for her work, Who's Who of America's teachers (4 times) etc. Perhaps you are the one with your head in the sand.

Oh and before you jump on it let me help you. Yes she works in the public schools....by choice. She could have been making MUCH more money teaching people how to teach, or working in private schools. So you can skip the "save my wife's job" angle.
ICE

Camp Hill, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#8
Nov 19, 2009
 

Judged:

2

2

2

Man in Black wrote:
<quoted text>
a WHOLE 12 years eh? WOW that is a long time.....until you consider that school districts have to plan out MUCH farther than than. How many charters in YORK made AYP? give you a hint it starts with a Z. Charters do not have to deal with the same issues as the public schools. The simple fact they can drop a kid back into public school makes the playing field a little different doesn't it? While they never come out and say it Charter schools cherry pick their students. Leaving all the lower performance, ES, troublemaker kids to the public schools. The SAY they don't but the numbers do not support it.
Do our schools need to change. Yes. Will the changes that will REALLY make a difference show improvement in the short term (5 years) No. School reform, if done properly MUST take a minimum of 12 years. Why so long? Because you can not make up for lost time in education. A student pushed through K-5 to the middle school is NOT going to be able learn the new material while trying to make up the material missed in previous years.
What do charters have that the public schools don't? Parental involvement. Every kid in a charter school is there because a parent got involved with the education process. Likely that was not the extent of their involvement. On average you won't see 10% of the parents of the York city schools show up for a PT night. Or even return calls from teachers.
The schools are only HALF of the education process. PARENTING is a very big part as well.
IF charters are so great, why don't we just farm out our schools to them? shut down every public school in the US and let the charters handle it? As far as i know NO school district has done this. I wonder why?
How many students has YCSD lost to LOGOS? They are a responsible school in the city that draws 75% of their enrollment from the city and their students are achieving. How many of the kids from Springdale attend private schools? York city parents have options and they are increasingly exercising them by removing their children from traditional schools. Some of the cyber charter schools have shown good results. Unless YCSD can change parents perception that their schools are unsafe and the education that they provide is subpar they will find themselves abandoned with a student body that consists primarily of students living in poverty, those with uninvolved parents, and those with severe behavioral problems.
George

Berryville, VA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#9
Nov 19, 2009
 
Red Hot wrote:
<quoted text>
Cry like a baby...It's ok for the local school district to fleece the money with their mammoth school building projects and turf sports fields, you want to complain about charters..get your head out of the sands..there is a national charter school movement going on..maybe you should take a look outside of York County
Hmmmm? Does York City District have turf fields?
Man in Black

Baltimore, MD

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#10
Nov 19, 2009
 

Judged:

3

3

3

ICE wrote:
<quoted text>
How many students has YCSD lost to LOGOS? They are a responsible school in the city that draws 75% of their enrollment from the city and their students are achieving. How many of the kids from Springdale attend private schools? York city parents have options and they are increasingly exercising them by removing their children from traditional schools. Some of the cyber charter schools have shown good results. Unless YCSD can change parents perception that their schools are unsafe and the education that they provide is subpar they will find themselves abandoned with a student body that consists primarily of students living in poverty, those with uninvolved parents, and those with severe behavioral problems.
I agree, but what will happen when the money runs out? More charter schools means more $$$ leaving the city schools budget. Schools get worse. The city already has trouble attracting families into the city to live. Why live in a HIGH tax area with poor schools AND foot the bill for private schools. Most will opt to live OUTSIDE the city. Less tax base. When the $$$$ runs out so will the charter schools.(as stated above this has already happened in other places) Then the district will be left with no staff, or schools. Then what choice will there be for the parents?

As we are finding out all over, the TAX well is not unlimited.
Man in Black

Baltimore, MD

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#11
Nov 19, 2009
 
George wrote:
<quoted text>Hmmmm? Does York City District have turf fields?
Does York City District have fields?
1968 Class-York PA

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#12
Nov 19, 2009
 

Judged:

2

2

1

In my opinion, Charter Schools are about making money for the people who own them, not about educating the children any better. If children are not taught at home first, they will not learn anything. Its a good thing that the Charter School can participate in the sports and other things in their home school district. Wake up York City School District. With the new Counts Charter School, they hope to rid York Suburban of some of the minorities by sending them to a Charter School in the city.
TJR

State College, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#13
Nov 19, 2009
 
The thing that concerns me is that so much time & energy is being spent on the charter schools while the city schools are bashed left and right. Why are we not focusing on revamping the city schools first?!
uofakron1944

Cranbury, NJ

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#14
Nov 20, 2009
 
ex york city resident

Harrisburg, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15
Nov 20, 2009
 
It's not the teachers in york it's the students
most of york high would drop out except for the law.....welfare grazed and educated by their parents never to work and abuse the welfare system..most not all..the truth is welfare takes away drive and ambition for education or anything
WELFARE HAS CREATED GENERATIONS OF NON PRODUCTIVE
REPRODUCING PEOPLE....IT'S NOT THE TEACHERS..
IT'S THE STUDENTS.... YORK CITY SCHOOLS " THE BLACKBOARD JUNGLE "
equity

Harrisburg, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#16
Nov 20, 2009
 

Judged:

2

1

1

I would like to clear up a common misconception. Charter schools do not take money away from the public schools. That is a Fact.

When a student leaves a public school and goes to a charter school, the money from the public school follows the student to the charter school.

It is true that the public school is short that money, but then they are not educating that kid, the charter is now resposnible to educate them.

The Public suffer becuase they no are getting less students and therefore not getting the money assigned to that student. As Man in Black said above, the only way for the public schools to survive is to reduce thier costs in a ration equivalant to the number of students they loose.

The York City School Distirct is aware of this issue and as a result has recommended the temporary closing of Davis elementary. The parents are upset and want the district to keep it open, they should not as this will waste money. These are tough decisions.

Private and religious schools have always posed a challenge to public education, however no one ever took notice becuase the parents have always paid tuition for these students, in addition to paying thier public school taxes. This has allowed those with money to provide a different (not always better) option for thier children.

Public schools need to make some changes so that they will appeal to the masses, when this happens they will be the choice of the people.

This process of change has happened in most other industries, haowever over time this "Deregulation" balances things out. Think cell phones, at one time thier was one provider, phnoes in 1983 were more than $1,000 and you paid 90 cents a min., Now you get teh phone for free and have unlimited calls for $39.00 per month.

It is now education's turn.
Man in Black

Baltimore, MD

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#17
Nov 20, 2009
 
equity wrote:
I would like to clear up a common misconception. Charter schools do not take money away from the public schools. That is a Fact.
When a student leaves a public school and goes to a charter school, the money from the public school follows the student to the charter school.
It is true that the public school is short that money, but then they are not educating that kid, the charter is now resposnible to educate them.
The Public suffer becuase they no are getting less students and therefore not getting the money assigned to that student. As Man in Black said above, the only way for the public schools to survive is to reduce thier costs in a ration equivalant to the number of students they loose.
The York City School Distirct is aware of this issue and as a result has recommended the temporary closing of Davis elementary. The parents are upset and want the district to keep it open, they should not as this will waste money. These are tough decisions.
Private and religious schools have always posed a challenge to public education, however no one ever took notice becuase the parents have always paid tuition for these students, in addition to paying thier public school taxes. This has allowed those with money to provide a different (not always better) option for thier children.
Public schools need to make some changes so that they will appeal to the masses, when this happens they will be the choice of the people.
This process of change has happened in most other industries, haowever over time this "Deregulation" balances things out. Think cell phones, at one time thier was one provider, phnoes in 1983 were more than $1,000 and you paid 90 cents a min., Now you get teh phone for free and have unlimited calls for $39.00 per month.
It is now education's turn.
If the money follows the student then that money is allocated to go to the charter school and not used for anything in the public school. Kind of like if your electric bill goes up by $50. Your income is the same but you are spending the $50 on electric instead of on car maintenance.

Oh yes we do need education reform. We need that more than we need healthcare reform. The problem is that is any TRUE long term reform won't show results for at least 12 years. The politicians who run our education system in this country can not implement anything thing that long term. They "need" to show progress before the next election. Reform has to take place at the beginning, 1st grade. Then follow the change to the second. in 12 years we would be turning out well educated students. This type of reform will NEVER happen. Until mothers and fathers are PARENTS, reform won't matter anyway.
WTF

Hammonton, NJ

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#18
Nov 20, 2009
 

Judged:

1

1

1

The charter schools exist for one reason; to make money - a ton of money. If you think superindents in public school districts are overpaid, you should check out how much the executives and managers are getting at charter schools and alternative schools. And to date, there is no evidence that the kids are performing any better than when they were in public school. This is just another ripoff of the taxpayer.
WTF

Hammonton, NJ

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#19
Nov 20, 2009
 

Judged:

1

1

1

equity wrote:
I would like to clear up a common misconception. Charter schools do not take money away from the public schools. That is a Fact.
When a student leaves a public school and goes to a charter school, the money from the public school follows the student to the charter school.
It is true that the public school is short that money, but then they are not educating that kid, the charter is now resposnible to educate them.
The Public suffer becuase they no are getting less students and therefore not getting the money assigned to that student. As Man in Black said above, the only way for the public schools to survive is to reduce thier costs in a ration equivalant to the number of students they loose.
The York City School Distirct is aware of this issue and as a result has recommended the temporary closing of Davis elementary. The parents are upset and want the district to keep it open, they should not as this will waste money. These are tough decisions.
Private and religious schools have always posed a challenge to public education, however no one ever took notice becuase the parents have always paid tuition for these students, in addition to paying thier public school taxes. This has allowed those with money to provide a different (not always better) option for thier children.
Public schools need to make some changes so that they will appeal to the masses, when this happens they will be the choice of the people.
This process of change has happened in most other industries, haowever over time this "Deregulation" balances things out. Think cell phones, at one time thier was one provider, phnoes in 1983 were more than $1,000 and you paid 90 cents a min., Now you get teh phone for free and have unlimited calls for $39.00 per month.
It is now education's turn.
Of course they take money away from the public schools. If a district has 4000 students and 100 go to charter schools do you think that the money the district pays to the charter school is offset by cuts in the school district? Of course not. Say you have 24 students in a class and 2 go to charter school. The public school still has to expend the same resources to educate the remaining 22 as it did for the 24. There is no cooresponding reduction in staff or overhead. It's like an airplane. It costs as much to fly a full plane as one that is half full.
ICE

Camp Hill, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#20
Nov 20, 2009
 

Judged:

1

WTF wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course they take money away from the public schools. If a district has 4000 students and 100 go to charter schools do you think that the money the district pays to the charter school is offset by cuts in the school district? Of course not. Say you have 24 students in a class and 2 go to charter school. The public school still has to expend the same resources to educate the remaining 22 as it did for the 24. There is no cooresponding reduction in staff or overhead. It's like an airplane. It costs as much to fly a full plane as one that is half full.
Parents of York City School District students are removing their children from the Middle Schools because they are unhappy with the performance of the city's middle schools and apparently the district is not hearing us because their answer to our concerns is to place more grades into the Middle Schools. You don't add flights to a flight route with decreasing demand and eliminate filled to capacity flight routes with high levels of customer satisfaction unless you are intent on losing money and have a total disconnect from the people that you service.
Close Smith, expand services to pre-k and kindergarteners by opening Roosevelt and move 6th grade students back into the elementary schools where they are better served as shown by the districts test scores, our elementary schools have the class space, and you'll slow or stop the growth of charter schools.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Other Recent Huntingdon Discussions

Search the Huntingdon Forum:
Title Updated Last By Comments
PA Who do you support for Governor in Pennsylvania... (Oct '10) Mon T Wolf 51,196
PA Who do you support for U.S. Senate in Pennsylva... (Oct '10) Mon Eddie Swindell 3,824
EBT connecting Railroad Jul 10 Jimmy 3
Mother of Pennsylvania Inmate Requests Calls to... (May '08) May '14 MA Reporter 23
Kenny crackhead selsor Apr '14 SuzyQ 1
Our View: Why we should preserve Erie's history Apr '14 freddy two toes 2
Swingers Palace, church share address (Sep '08) Mar '14 BnB 9
•••
•••
•••
Huntingdon Dating

more search filters

less search filters

•••

Huntingdon Jobs

•••
Enter and win $5000
•••
•••

Huntingdon People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Huntingdon News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Huntingdon
•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••