Are friends of murdered woman harassing the suspect?

Full story: WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan

The friends and family of a woman murdered in August 2006 are being questioned by the Michigan State Police for harassing the suspect.
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21 - 40 of 40 Comments Last updated Oct 12, 2009
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“Insert witty comment <here>”

Since: Aug 07

Wyoming, MI

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#21
Feb 23, 2008
 
If he's guilty, then he will be charged, tried, and punished. The harassment, however, does fall under the Michigan anti-stalking guidelines and as it is easier to prove, it would probably be in the harassers' best interest to stop.

Here is the law for reference. Pay special attention to parts c) and d) for the definitions and how they fit.

750.411h Stalking; definitions; violation as misdemeanor; penalties; probation; conditions; evidence of continued conduct as rebuttable presumption; additional penalties.

Sec. 411h.

(1) As used in this section:

(a)“Course of conduct” means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of 2 or more separate noncontinuous acts evidencing a continuity of purpose.

(b)“Emotional distress” means significant mental suffering or distress that may, but does not necessarily, require medical or other professional treatment or counseling.

(c)“Harassment” means conduct directed toward a victim that includes, but is not limited to, repeated or continuing unconsented contact that would cause a reasonable individual to suffer emotional distress and that actually causes the victim to suffer emotional distress. Harassment does not include constitutionally protected activity or conduct that serves a legitimate purpose.

(d)“Stalking” means a willful course of conduct involving repeated or continuing harassment of another individual that would cause a reasonable person to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, threatened, harassed, or molested and that actually causes the victim to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, threatened, harassed, or molested.

(e)“Unconsented contact” means any contact with another individual that is initiated or continued without that individual's consent or in disregard of that individual's expressed desire that the contact be avoided or discontinued. Unconsented contact includes, but is not limited to, any of the following:

(i) Following or appearing within the sight of that individual.

(ii) Approaching or confronting that individual in a public place or on private property.

(iii) Appearing at that individual's workplace or residence.

(iv) Entering onto or remaining on property owned, leased, or occupied by that individual.

(v) Contacting that individual by telephone.

(vi) Sending mail or electronic communications to that individual.

(vii) Placing an object on, or delivering an object to, property owned, leased, or occupied by that individual.

(f)“Victim” means an individual who is the target of a willful course of conduct involving repeated or continuing harassment.

(...cont)

“Insert witty comment <here>”

Since: Aug 07

Wyoming, MI

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#22
Feb 23, 2008
 
(...cont)

(2) An individual who engages in stalking is guilty of a crime as follows:

(a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $1,000.00, or both.

(b) If the victim was less than 18 years of age at any time during the individual's course of conduct and the individual is 5 or more years older than the victim, a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both.

(3) The court may place an individual convicted of violating this section on probation for a term of not more than 5 years. If a term of probation is ordered, the court may, in addition to any other lawful condition of probation, order the defendant to do any of the following:

(a) Refrain from stalking any individual during the term of probation.

(b) Refrain from having any contact with the victim of the offense.

(c) Be evaluated to determine the need for psychiatric, psychological, or social counseling and if, determined appropriate by the court, to receive psychiatric, psychological, or social counseling at his or her own expense.

(4) In a prosecution for a violation of this section, evidence that the defendant continued to engage in a course of conduct involving repeated unconsented contact with the victim after having been requested by the victim to discontinue the same or a different form of unconsented contact, and to refrain from any further unconsented contact with the victim, gives rise to a rebuttable presumption that the continuation of the course of conduct caused the victim to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, threatened, harassed, or molested.

(5) A criminal penalty provided for under this section may be imposed in addition to any penalty that may be imposed for any other criminal offense arising from the same conduct or for any contempt of court arising from the same conduct.
DDD

Lamont, MI

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#23
Feb 23, 2008
 

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I really find it hard to understand anyone who doesn't believe that Michael Pagel murdered Renee. If he were innocent of the crime, he wouldn't be hiding behind his attorney, and refusing to talk to the police. I can only hope that he is eventually brought to justice.
Rob

Ann Arbor, MI

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#24
Feb 23, 2008
 

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DDD wrote:
I really find it hard to understand anyone who doesn't believe that Michael Pagel murdered Renee. If he were innocent of the crime, he wouldn't be hiding behind his attorney, and refusing to talk to the police. I can only hope that he is eventually brought to justice.
Again what is the proof? Clearly the authorities do not seem to feel they have what they need. Have you turned over the evidence you have so this man can be arrrested?

How patently unfair you are.

I have seen too many people on TV walk out of jail after being cleared for crimes they did not committ. Rule number one for me would be to get a lawyer and do what he or she tells me to do.
DDD

Lamont, MI

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#25
Feb 24, 2008
 

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Rob,

The authorities know who killed Renee, they just can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt..... yet.

I'm not a prosecutor or a judge, so I don't have to be "fair". And I don't think it at all out of line to draw my own conclusions regarding Mike Pagels refusal to talk to the police. His actions are not those of an innocent man.
Rob

Ann Arbor, MI

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#26
Feb 24, 2008
 

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As I said I am an innocent man when it comes to anything, and you are an innocent person when it comes to anything. Now if a cop knocked on my door and started to suggest I was involved with anything, I would ask them to contact my lawyer.

I saw on TV8 the other day the guy in Constintine who had a knock on his door asking for DNA relating to the killing of that poor little girl last year. I understand his willingness to provide the DNA but assuming he is innocent (And went on TV) how in the world did the cops end up on his doorstep?

In his case thank God for DNA, but in the Pagel case it is a lot about what Mike Pagel says and how he acts.

Our country says you are innocent until proven guilty. It does great disservice when people bring their prejudices with them to make these judgements and then begin to harrass others.

It would be nice to have an advocate who is just interested in getting to the truth, someone who makes peace with Mike Pagel. If he is this monster it makes more sense to develop a relationship with him that is not confrontational. Invite him to help out, update him on what you are doing. If you really want information you are more likely to get it through a little schmoozing than you are from harassing the guy.

This Chris Chrandle is not working for justice, maybe she started out that way, but now she needs to step asside.
Wow

Grand Rapids, MI

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#27
Feb 25, 2008
 

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Rob, you say you're not related, but WOW...you're sure spending a lot of your energy defending Mr. Pagel...why is that?
Rob

Ann Arbor, MI

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#28
Feb 25, 2008
 

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It is so sad that American citizens are so profoundly ignorant of the law and apparently ignorant in general. After all that is written here all you can get out of it is that I am defending the man?

You are wrong. If he did it then it is the job of the prosecutor to try and prove it, and if they can prove it he deserves a lot more punishment than our society can ever give him. If he did this he committed an act of evil that has changed the lives to too many innocent people.

Chris Chrandle turning this into her own personal effort to get someone to confess to save his soul, or so she says is just wrong. It does not help the case, it does not help the children and it distracts Renee and puts the focus on Chris. This is wrong and she needs to stop and go away.

We have Courts in this country to solve these issues as well as a justice system. I stand up for what is right. It is such a shame others would call that something other than what it is.
InThe Know

Grand Rapids, MI

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#29
Jun 19, 2008
 

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I resent comments like "there is too much violence against women in this community." Women commit far more violence against men, and the men are ashamed to report it. Renee may have walloped her husband dozens of times during their marriage, as pious loonies often feel justified doing. All the biblical stuff on " whokilledrenee.com " reeks of zealotry, not facts. If the husband ever comes to trial, the pretrial publicity will certainly be in his favor, and will likely get the trial moved to a less 'law and order' type community.
DARK HELMET LIVES

Cincinnati, OH

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#30
Jun 23, 2008
 

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Anonymous wrote:
A high paid attorney can not help his client out-maneuver evidence... even if he learns something from CSI.
Then please explain O. J. Simpson to me. Biggest travesty of justice I've ever seen. At least Johnny Cochrane is rotting in h.ell for his trouble!

Since: Oct 07

Greenville, MI

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#31
Jun 23, 2008
 
OK, I'm gonna get flamed for this but I'm gonna say it anyways. Has anyone considered that Mike might be keeping quiet due to the fact he is protecting someone, i.e. a close member of the family?
umm

Ann Arbor, MI

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#32
Jun 23, 2008
 
InThe Know wrote:
I resent comments like "there is too much violence against women in this community." Women commit far more violence against men, and the men are ashamed to report it. Renee may have walloped her husband dozens of times during their marriage, as pious loonies often feel justified doing. All the biblical stuff on " whokilledrenee.com " reeks of zealotry, not facts. If the husband ever comes to trial, the pretrial publicity will certainly be in his favor, and will likely get the trial moved to a less 'law and order' type community.
You are clueless.
Gail in Wyoming

Grand Rapids, MI

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#33
Jun 24, 2008
 
I understand the family wanting justice, but they should let the authorities handle it. I'm sure that is easier said than done, as impatience does get in the way.

The Justice System seems to move so slowly. We all want results right away, but that is not the way it is done in the system.

Sad, but true.

Since: May 08

Ann Arbor, MI

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#34
Jun 24, 2008
 
Gail in Wyoming wrote:
I understand the family wanting justice, but they should let the authorities handle it. I'm sure that is easier said than done, as impatience does get in the way.
The Justice System seems to move so slowly. We all want results right away, but that is not the way it is done in the system.
Sad, but true.
I love your common sense....
Sisely

United States

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#35
Jun 27, 2008
 
Speaking of common sense, do we all forget to use it any more? The husband so obviously did this...

Since: May 08

Ann Arbor, MI

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#36
Jun 28, 2008
 

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Sisely wrote:
Speaking of common sense, do we all forget to use it any more? The husband so obviously did this...
My God you have the answer! God has come down and placed all His knowledge in your head.....

The man is innocent until proven guilty. Look for the answers, respect him.
DeMorgan

Holland, MI

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#37
Jun 28, 2008
 
OJ was innocent to..remember

all the idiots who screamed racism..
and called the cops corruptt...

funny thing is, now one of OJ lawyers has come out and said they ALL knew he did it, they just played the system

what would happen if...a white man butchered tow blacks and got away with it ?
Oh thats right...riots, i forgot.

Since: May 08

Ann Arbor, MI

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#38
Jun 28, 2008
 
DeMorgan wrote:
OJ was innocent to..remember
all the idiots who screamed racism..
and called the cops corruptt...
funny thing is, now one of OJ lawyers has come out and said they ALL knew he did it, they just played the system
what would happen if...a white man butchered tow blacks and got away with it ?
Oh thats right...riots, i forgot.
Great here comes the racism....Good news....

So you think the harassment works? I am sure the police do not need or want that kind of help.

At this point the man has the right to be left alone and considered innocent. Our police and prosecutor cannot make the case and it is wrong to play judge and jury at this point.
TErickson

Bemidji, MN

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#39
Oct 12, 2009
 
Why has no one checked the internet server to check out the claim that Detective Johnson was Renees boyfriend and that she dumped him and then later offed her knowing the husband would be the suspect.

These people do not want justice they want a linching or rather vengeance. Her friends probable know about the other liason's yet conceal this from the police.
huh

Bangor, MI

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#40
Oct 12, 2009
 
TErickson wrote:
Why has no one checked the internet server to check out the claim that Detective Johnson was Renees boyfriend and that she dumped him and then later offed her knowing the husband would be the suspect.
These people do not want justice they want a linching or rather vengeance. Her friends probable know about the other liason's yet conceal this from the police.
I have never heard anything about her seeing the detective before now. I would think that would have come out sooner. I think you have made that up. I have followed this case very closely and never, ever heard anything like that.

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