Documentary looks at faith and Alcoholics Anonymous

Broadcast premiere will be at 10 tonight on local PBS channels. Filmmakers interview experts on religion and 12-step program By Rich Heldenfels Beacon Journal popular culture writer Published on Tuesday, Jun ...

[Grateful in Atlanta]

Thanks again, Joshua and Shane, for your efforts in making this film. It is very well done. And thanks for showing it Saturday morning at the Gatehouse.

[RichardB]

Early A.A. was a Christian Fellowship. it required that a new person profess belief in the Creator, that the person accept Christ, that there be regular Bible study and prayer meetings. The philosophy was best expressed by A.A. cofounder Dr. Bob Smith when, in his story on page 181 of the basic text, he said: "Your Heavenly Father will never let you down!" And, on page 191 of the text he wrote, Bill Wilson said: "The Lord has cured me of this terrible disease, and I just want to keep talking about it and telling people. See The Conversion of Bill W. and Dr. Bob of Alcoholics Anonymous

[Tom Action]

A.A. is a wonderfull experiance only a few of us are given the benefit of long term sobriety,thank you god

[mickey]

RichardB wrote:

Early A.A. was a Christian Fellowship. it required that a new person profess belief in the Creator, that the person accept Christ, that there be regular Bible study and prayer meetings. The philosophy was best expressed by A.A. cofounder Dr. Bob Smith when, in his story on page 181 of the basic text, he said: "Your Heavenly Father will never let you down!" And, on page 191 of the text he wrote, Bill Wilson said: "The Lord has cured me of this terrible disease, and I just want to keep talking about it and telling people. See The Conversion of Bill W. and Dr. Bob of Alcoholics Anonymous

Wilson is that he had little use for organized religion and believed that Christ was a notable man with admirable moral teachings, but alleged that he wasn’t followed too closely by those who received him. Regarding the teachings of Christ, Bill stated:“I had adopted those parts which seemed convenient and not too difficult; the rest I disregarded.” Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, chapter 1, Bill's Story, pages 10-11. Actually, there is nothing in A.A. literature that implies the bill Wilson ever accepted any Christian religion, so what makes him an authority to write about spirituality?
The answer to that lies in his devotion to seeking spiritual guidance by means of satanic rituals. His obsession with the black arts was so ardent that he actually believed that a 15th century monk was speaking to him. The churches and Satanists call this necromancy, the blackest of the black arts. Satanists believe that in order to contact a spirit through the art of necromancy a pact with the Devil must be made. Christian religions and the Bible condemn communication with the dead.Deuteronomy 18:10-12 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD…
A.A.s new trustees considered this so controversial that when Lois Wilson died, the contents of the “Spook Room” as Bill called it, was taken to the archives of A.A. and remain closed to the public. It is feared that the materials from the room are so controversial in the development of A.A. that the membership would lose trust in the program. Bill W. and Mr. Wilson By Matthew J. Raphael http://books.google.ca/books...

[mickey]

Tom Action wrote:

A.A. is a wonderfull experiance only a few of us are given the benefit of long term sobriety,thank you god

What is so wonderful about a lifelong sentence to weekly meeting of a cult driven organization. Recovery is just that, recovering and moving on. Alcoholism is not a disease, it is a behaviour problem. The only thing A.A. teaches that is worth knowing is that if you don't drink, you wont get drunk. That is common sense not a disease.Once you figure that out, you come to realize that quitting drinking is easy. Next you have to figure out why you drink the way you do and get treatment for the thing you are self-medicating for. People drink because they have poor coping methods, they are depressed or a thousand other reasons, but they don't drink because they have a disease. There is no such disease.

[Scooter Moonpie]

Alcoholism is not a disease, it is a behaviour problem.

Too bad Congress doesn't agree with you.

[Ronald Reagan]

Scooter Moonpie wrote:

<quoted text>
Too bad Congress doesn't agree with you.

Scooter, you absolutely slay me. Congress? Way too funny! This has to be the most hilarious thing you've come up with yet.

[Ronald Reagan]

When I quit drinking, I just pulled myself up out of a pool of my own vomit and stopped. By that time no one wanted anything to do with me. My wife, my kids, my friends, no one. Can't say that I blame them either.

I didn't need the help of a cult like AA to stop drinking. I just did it on my own. Every new day is both a trial and a gift.

[mickey]

Scooter Moonpie wrote:

<quoted text>
Too bad Congress doesn't agree with you.

Congress was duped by a narcissistic female named Marty Mann that formed the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence. She was an A.A. member that was sanctioned by Bill Wilson to become a double hatter to push the A.A. concept to help increase the attendance at A.A. meetings. She traveled extensively, speaking to groups and helping to start AA chapters and branches of the National Council on Alcoholism in the United States and abroad. She was a charismatic public speaker and gave hundreds of lectures. She spoke to and served as consultant to congressional and state legislative committees. She cultivated and enlisted the help of the rich and the famous, many of whom were problem drinkers or had an alcoholic in the family. She also enlisted the help of scientists at the Yale Center of Alcohol Studies. People like E.M. Jellinek, a scientist that was later discovered to be a fraud and withdrew his findings because he skewed them so bad that they became nothing but lies. People like Haggard, Bacon and even Jellinek went along with Marty at first, and presented to the public the idea that alcoholism was a disease and therefore a scientific fact. However, they became uncomfortable with the terminology because of the patent absence of an identifiable cause. Eventually, Haggard, Bacon and even Jellinek also differed with Marty over whether A.A. was the only, or even the best framework for long term recovery. After a few years, they all distanced themselves from Marty’s single minded emphasis on the disease concept and A.A. as the solution. A Biography of Mrs. Marty Mann: The First Lady of Alcoholics Anonymous By Sally Brown, David R. Brown. http://books.google.ca/books...

[Scooter Moonpie]

Ronald Reagan wrote:

<quoted text>
Scooter, you absolutely slay me. Congress? Way too funny! This has to be the most hilarious thing you've come up with yet.

Oh.

http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/reuters_article...

[Ronald Reagan]

Ronald Reagan wrote:

When I quit drinking, I just pulled myself up out of a pool of my own vomit and stopped. By that time no one wanted anything to do with me. My wife, my kids, my friends, no one. Can't say that I blame them either.
I didn't need the help of a cult like AA to stop drinking. I just did it on my own. Every new day is both a trial and a gift.

I guess I struck a nerve with too much common sense for some reformed loser out there.

Your imitation is flattering.

[Scooter Moonpie]

I had some time today to read some of the references you include (speaking to mickey, RR, et al). I want to say thanks for presenting views I haven't seen to date, mainly because I really wasn't interested.

I know some folks who have done quite well in AA. I also know others who had D/A problems who faired quite well on their own. AA is the only recovery method I've investigated (yeah, Big Book) and I was unaware of counter-opinions to AA being so widespread.

Ya know, they got homosexuality out of the DSM-IV... maybe alcohol dependence will fall someday too? Alas, I think those pushing for genetic validation for homosexuality may indeed find their roadblock in the same arguments you make against AA.

Chemical processes do not make a person an alcoholic. The person makes the conscience choice. Altered processing of alcohol in no way determines choice or behaviors. Obsessive drinking is not a reaction to bodily processes, but merely a choice. The amount consumed is determined by the individual not by the body.

Nevertheless, news stories surface every year proclaiming discoveries of the genetic sources of emotional and behavioral problems while ignoring the mountains of evidence that refutes such preposterous assertions.

http://ronbosoldier.blogspot.com/2009/05/alco...

Thanks again for the viewpoints. Good stuff.

[mickey]

Scooter Moonpie wrote:

I had some time today to read some of the references you include (speaking to mickey, RR, et al). I want to say thanks for presenting views I haven't seen to date, mainly because I really wasn't interested.
I know some folks who have done quite well in AA. I also know others who had D/A problems who faired quite well on their own. AA is the only recovery method I've investigated (yeah, Big Book) and I was unaware of counter-opinions to AA being so widespread.
Ya know, they got homosexuality out of the DSM-IV... maybe alcohol dependence will fall someday too? Alas, I think those pushing for genetic validation for homosexuality may indeed find their roadblock in the same arguments you make against AA.
<quoted text>
http://ronbosoldier.blogspot.com/2009/05/alco...
Thanks again for the viewpoints. Good stuff.

Excellent point, the Gay communities have suffered immensely from misinformation and judgmental, irrational and moralistic thinking.

[Ronald Reagan]

Scooter Moonpie wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh.
http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/reuters_article...

I wasn't doubting your honesty. I found it hilarious you would use anything from that group of crooked bums to support your side of the topic.

[No AA needed]

"I used to be all messed up on alcohol, but then I found The Lord. Now, I'm all messed up on The Lord. And now even the drunks won't have anything to do with me. Thanks a f**k of a lot, AA."

[Howard Beale Jr]

I just signed Little Tyree up for AA.

Asians Anonymous.

Cure his MFS (May Fong Syndrome).

[mickey]

No AA needed wrote:

"I used to be all messed up on alcohol, but then I found The Lord. Now, I'm all messed up on The Lord. And now even the drunks won't have anything to do with me. Thanks a f**k of a lot, AA."

Yeah that is so typical A.A., spiritual not religious. But you really need to figure out the semantics of it all. You see, they found “God,” But you my son found the LORD and that makes you religious and them spiritual. I think these two lines from Bob Dylan’s son Shelter from the Storm really sum up what you are saying about A.A.“I bargained for salvation an' they gave me a lethal dose. I offered up my innocence and got repaid with scorn.”

[RDL]

Ronald Reagan wrote:

When I quit drinking, I just pulled myself up out of a pool of my own vomit and stopped. By that time no one wanted anything to do with me. My wife, my kids, my friends, no one. Can't say that I blame them either.
I didn't need the help of a cult like AA to stop drinking. I just did it on my own. Every new day is both a trial and a gift.

You need to fight to get your wife and kids and your friends back in your life.

If that doesn't work, beat them into a coma.