Ask your three kids if the kids take these tests seriously. Do it, please. I guarantee you they will say they don't. Springboro's average ACT score is 24. That will get kids into colleges and university's.<quoted text>
That is right, its the kids fault, how could I have missed that one?
Show me the frequency scoring on the ACT and we will talk.
Our average, even with all the smart kids pulling it up, isn't that great.
It will get you admitted to many lower tiered schools, but top notch programs are not that impressed.
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#24484 Apr 29, 2013
#24485 Apr 29, 2013
I love the way you manipulate numbers, I bet your printing business is the best in the state!
#24486 Apr 29, 2013
You do know that average means all the scores added up then divided by the number of participants.
An average does not tell you the frequency distribution of the scores.
Example: 20 people scoring 18 on their ACT and 20 people scoring 30 on their ACT will give you an average of 24 the ACT.
While those scoring 30 will probably do well, those on the bottom end of the scale will not.
But the average is still 24.
You do not have enough information with just an average to make any assertions that contain any validity past the fact that the average is this much.
Let's examine the complete results and see where our program needs tweaking
#24487 Apr 29, 2013
You would be incorrect in that assertion, they do take them seriously because they know they are used to evaluate classroom placements.
#24488 Apr 29, 2013
The questions in the test are broken into sections designed as you say to test the most basic portions of the subject.
The number of questions answered correctly place a student in a state defined class. Listed below are the number of correct answers that correspond to each EUPHEMISM the state employs. We know how many points are available on a given test, it then becomes a simple matter of employing the lessons learned in third grade regarding division. That provides us with the percentage of questions our children got correct.
Go to the Math section and click on the Grade 8 Mathematics Blueprint
65-75% of the test is Low to Moderate complexity
Complexity ..........Characteristics..... ..... of Points
Low ..........Requires recall of facts and definitions ..........25 - 35%
..........or performing routine, specified procedures.
Moderate.......... Requires some interpretation..........40 - 50%
..........or multi-step problem solutions.
High ..........Requires analysis of or justifying reasoning......15 - 25%
.......... and solution for more complicated problem situations.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
#24489 Apr 29, 2013
The test blueprint headers should read
Level of Complexity.......Characteristi cs of Questions.....% of Points
Practice tests and answers in the test administrators guide
#24490 Apr 29, 2013
In case you are wondering the 65%- 75% of the test in the low to moderately complex portion is the part C, D, and F students should get.
We had just 20% of our 8th graders master more than that basic amount.
And we are considered excellent with distinction?
Our competition in the Dayton Public Schools had less than 1% score as well, or just 9 children out of 1023.
Still want to blame the children?
#24491 Apr 30, 2013
I didn't say your three kids. I said ask your kids how the other kids take this test seriously or not.
#24492 Apr 30, 2013
The way you throw numbers on this blog shows the exact reason why teachers should not be evaluated on these test scores. Your comments about the students not getting an education in Springboro prove you do not know what is going on in a classroom. The majority of these students know these tests don't mean nothing to them. They don't care about it. You are just like the rest of the politicians, you think you know what is going on in the classroom without ever leading 25-30 kids in a lesson. You have never set foot in front of a classroom and you claim that children are being deprived. You really have no clue. Now I'm sure you'll come back on here and say you do, But the truth is you're just like all the rest of the politicians and have no idea what takes place in a classroom, you base all of your assumptions off of a test that students do not take seriously. Yes I agree with you that some do take this test seriously, but a large number of students do not because they know that if they do poorly on it it does not matter to them. There are no consequences for doing poorly on this test. That's the problem.
#24493 Apr 30, 2013
Based upon your train of logic, the teacher has no influence over the education of the children in their charge. It thus follows that it does not matter who the teacher is because a large percentage of students will not take their education seriously.
Which begs the question if the teacher does not matter and children are not serious, then why do we bother to spend large sums of money on a losing endeavor? If babysitters is all we need, could we not employ others with the proper credentials less expensively than $30-$70/hour?
That being the case, what do we do with those children who do wish to learn? I think you subtle way of promoting a charter school may be the answer.
#24494 Apr 30, 2013
Ask Mrs. Babb if her kids take the test seriously?
#24496 Apr 30, 2013
If you can't adequately defend your indefensible position, try changing the argument , maybe no one will notice.
The facts till remain that over 2000 plus children in this district are not receiving the education that the taxpayers are funding.
32% of the questions correct on a basic Ohio Achievement Assessment Math test in the 8th grade is not PROFICIENT.
32% represents an abject FAILURE of our system.
Those who understand and perpetuate this farce are demonstrating a wanton disregard for the children in their charge.
NO amount of SEMANTICS and EUPHEMISMS will replace actual education.
2000 plus children need your help in driving this point home to the union.
#24497 Apr 30, 2013
Actually, 89% of the teachers haven't had a raise in 3 years, not one year as you claim. 404 of the 454 listed on the website (the list is back up there after being removed for some reason). Only 50 have received raises in the past three years and it looks like 38 of them were from FY11-FY12. So only 12 of 454 have received a raise over the past two years or 3%.
#24498 Apr 30, 2013
The data is correct but the assumptions from the data are incorrect. Why bother trying to explain that to people who don't want to listen. It is easier to believe that our schools are failing. Which in turn makes is easier to not support our schools.
#24499 Apr 30, 2013
Now that we know that our teachers who earn from $30-$70 per hour need a 20% raise because they haven't had one in a year.
What has been the average raise provided by your employer in the past year or so?
How many of our readers have been given raises to the tune of 20-30% in the past year or so?
So a beginning teacher will now make between $37.50 -$42/hour?
Extrapolate that out to a full time job and that would mean $78,000 -$87,370 per year for a starting teacher.
For a top of the scale teacher they would make $87.50 -$100/hour.
Extrapolote that out to a full time job in the private sector and that would mean $182,000 -$208,000 per year.
Tell us again how you are a value at the above prices with the results we are seeing in our schools.
#24500 Apr 30, 2013
Your numbers are so off it's comical. Springboro does not have any teachers that make 70 dollars an hour. Thats 97,000+ a year. Keep beating your chest and posting inaccurate numbers about the teachers of Springboro's salaries. And if we do have one, please post their name and proof they make this much. We all know how you love numbers!!!!
#24502 Apr 30, 2013
Hey Corona, CA, you can post under all the aliases you want. It doesn't hide the fact that your a liberal, union, democrat shill. Get out of our forum and stick to bankrupting your own corrupt state.
#24503 Apr 30, 2013
And of course data has been provided (by the BOE mind you) that refutes your repeated comments about no raises and yet no answer or retort to it? You just keep repeating the same drivel over and over. Typical.
#24504 Apr 30, 2013
I know how much I make per year. I am Salderid, and I have to work the whole year to earn my salary. If you don't Like your job, quit. Find a new one that pays you the kind of money you are making now. I looked at just watchings numbers and they make sense to me. The only thing just watching forgot was the cost of the teachers insurance. That too is the cost of the employee. The truth is the truth.
#24505 Apr 30, 2013
Hey Numnuts do you pay attention to Just Watchings city???? It says New Carlisle. I'm not from Cali nor am I a Liberal. I'm a conservative male in my late 40s right here from Springboro. I believe in supporting my local teachers even though they are Union members. I believe they need a Union to protect themselves because the people who make major decisions in their line of work often have no experience in education. Case in point, the current BOE. Unlike the few ultra conservative Springboro folks on here who hate paying any taxes I don't mind paying a few extra dollars a year in taxes to pay teachers a salary. Now, I wish the state of Ohio would change the way public schools are funded but I know that's not going to happen. Politicians have ruined education and it makes me sad. I can't believe some of the things that people say about teachers, the lies, the inflated numbers, and all the other hateful things said about them. There are so many advantages to being a private sector employee like the ability to go and get a higher paying job if they are qualified that teachers don't have. A teacher with more than 10 years experience cannot change school districts because the new school district will not hire a teacher with that many years of service. Look at the 1st Question on a Springboro application. That proves my point right there. I understand that teachers have perks that private sector employees don't have but it is nothing like what the people on this blog say constantly about it. The schedule, the summers, and the decent pay are a few, but you people on here make them out to be millionaires. Like just watching always posting what their salaries WOULD be if they worked more days, well the fact is they don't and that is why their salaries are what they are. Don't forget about their benefits some like to say, why is that never mentioned about private sector employees? My wife's company employees have to pay 85% of their health insurance, what people will sometimes not mention is her boss gave her a pay raise that equals the cost of the insurance. A conservative will argue that she has to pay 85% when in reality she pays zero but the 85% makes their argument sound better. Just like all of Just Watching's numbers he loves to post. My point is, public employees and private sector employees all have perks to their jobs, the downside to it all is that tax payers have to pay public employee salaries and they have the ability to complain about it.
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