Gun supporters rally in Farmington

Feb 2, 2013 Full story: Farmington Daily Times 274

The gun owners said they are under attack from proposed regulations and a perception that guns are responsible for some of the well-publicized mass shootings of recent months.

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Since: May 10

Location hidden

#184 Feb 11, 2013
madness wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmmm, interesting logic there, Cary. Yelling "fire" is absolutely a free speech issue. The law steps in to limit your right to do that by imposing penalties if you do. All the law can ever be, truly, is reactive. They can't arrest you before you actually do the act.
And abortion? I absolutely and positively believe that a woman's right to dominion over her own body is sacred, and the government can not and should not limit HER right to be the master over her own body. I am always amazed at the hypocricy of the "defenders of the Constitution," who say they want the government OUT of imposing regulations, and then turn around and want to dictate what a woman must do with her own body. Yes, I believe after a certain point, the baby becomes a viable human being and I do not advocate late-term abortions unless there was a rape or health of the mother is in question. And I would have a hard time having an abortion (yes, I'm a "she"). But I'll be damned if I will tell another woman she must be forced to bear a child. Her body, her choice. And to preempt you, it is not contradictory that I want to protect school children from wacky gun-yielding folk, yet would not tell a woman she cannot have an early-term abortion. I do place the woman's right to have dominion over her own body over the right of a fetus. Yep, I do.
Supporters of abortion, whether they like it or not, are part of the culture of death that permeates today's United States. When a culture devalues human life to such a degree that children in the womb are wantonly slaughtered for convenience sake, is it any wonder that children who survive that slaughter don't value life when they take up arms and kill their fellow citizens, both adult and child?

Once a child is conceived, the decision has been made. It is no longer a choice.

We are reaping what we've sown. The only way we can reduce violence as a nation is to once again instill the value of human life into all of our citizens.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#185 Feb 11, 2013
xando wrote:
<quoted text>
CN, you are a walking contradiction.
You have stated that you would do away with all laws passed after 1900 (or before), because they restrict freedom. How far would you take that? As a matter of fact, ALL laws limit a person's "freedom," so your blatherings, taken to their logical conclusion would abolish all restrictions in favor if liberty.
You stated there should be no DWI jail time, but that these offenders should do community service. Tsk, tsk. That's an infringement of liberty.
Now you are advocating public execution. For what? In your utopian world of complete freedom there would be no laws to break, therefore, there would be no crime. People would restrict and restrain themselves.
So, really, you want to dictate. You've done nothing more than contradict yourself while parroting ephenisms and phrases that appeal to you lifted from your favorite "conservatives." You don't appear to have an original thought.
"Modern liberals." "Incrementally." "Liberty."
LOL! you really are a clown.
Do I get to wear the big floppy shoes?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#186 Feb 11, 2013
xando wrote:
In the last 50 years--Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Bush.
..Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton and Obama.
xando

United States

#187 Feb 12, 2013
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
..Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton and Obama.
Uh.....yeah. But your comment was that "increasing liberalism" over the last 50 years was responsible for destroying America. In those last 50 years Republicans have not only had more presidents in office, but they have had more YEARS (terms) as president than Democrats.

It just is one example of your wild, unsubstantiated statements. Do your homework, and PLEASE stop embarrassing yourself by missing the point.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#188 Feb 12, 2013
xando wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh.....yeah. But your comment was that "increasing liberalism" over the last 50 years was responsible for destroying America. In those last 50 years Republicans have not only had more presidents in office, but they have had more YEARS (terms) as president than Democrats.
It just is one example of your wild, unsubstantiated statements. Do your homework, and PLEASE stop embarrassing yourself by missing the point.
Of course modern liberalism is destroying the United States. That is the left's own stated goal.

Leftists in the United States despise their own country, and are intent upon turning it into something it never was, and was never meant to be.

Please do some study on how government works. Presidents don't make law. They can veto law, and they can choose how an existing law is enforced to some degree, but they don't have dictatorial power..unless someone like Barack Obama comes along and tries to usurp that power.

It is congress that passes laws. And Democrats have held congress for the vast majority of time between 1955 and the present. It is not a coincidence that this period of time coincides with the period of the greatest social and economic decline in the U.S.

Oh, and as for "embarrassing myself"? That is impossible. You assume I care what you or anyone else thinks of me. I got over worrying about that decades ago.
factologist

Farmington, NM

#189 Feb 12, 2013
Cary L Nickel wrote:
Supporters of abortion, whether they like it or not, are part of the culture of death that permeates today's United States. When a culture devalues human life to such a degree that children in the womb are wantonly slaughtered for convenience sake, is it any wonder that children who survive that slaughter don't value life when they take up arms and kill their fellow citizens, both adult and child?
Once a child is conceived, the decision has been made. It is no longer a choice.
We are reaping what we've sown. The only way we can reduce violence as a nation is to once again instill the value of human life into all of our citizens.
At the time the Constitution was adopted, abortions before "quickening" were openly advertised and commonly performed.
According to you, the FFs didn't value human life.
Hmmm!

“Polymath”

Since: Jul 08

Farmington

#190 Feb 12, 2013
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course modern liberalism is destroying the United States.
Actually, it's just changing it. The problem is that NEOCONs can't stand change. They want to go back to the Ozzy and Harriet days. Well, you can't turn back the clock and you shouldn't try.
Leftists in the United States despise their own country, and are intent upon turning it into something it never was, and was never meant to be.
Pretty wrong-headed statement considering I am Air Force and I know lots of fellow officers that are liberal as well. I guess we just volunteered to serve our country and possible give our life for it because we despised it, eh? How does that makes sense again?
And Democrats have held congress for the vast majority of time between 1955 and the present.
Wait, doesn't that mean that the majority of Americans agree with liberal views? Oh, yeah, that's exactly what it means. You, Cary, are a minority. We rule by the majority here.
It is not a coincidence that this period of time coincides with the period of the greatest social and economic decline in the U.S.
Really? As the sole remaining hyper-power on the planet, the most militarily powerful nation, and the world's biggest economy, just exactly how is it that we are in decline? You just made that up.

Or is it YOU who hates America and wants to bad mouth us to the world?
I got over worrying about that decades ago.
That was about the time you "got over" thinking rationally, caring about trying new things, and loving your neighbor...right?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#191 Feb 12, 2013
Saint_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, it's just changing it. The problem is that NEOCONs can't stand change. They want to go back to the Ozzy and Harriet days. Well, you can't turn back the clock and you shouldn't try.
<quoted text>
Pretty wrong-headed statement considering I am Air Force and I know lots of fellow officers that are liberal as well. I guess we just volunteered to serve our country and possible give our life for it because we despised it, eh? How does that makes sense again?
<quoted text>
Wait, doesn't that mean that the majority of Americans agree with liberal views? Oh, yeah, that's exactly what it means. You, Cary, are a minority. We rule by the majority here.
<quoted text>
Really? As the sole remaining hyper-power on the planet, the most militarily powerful nation, and the world's biggest economy, just exactly how is it that we are in decline? You just made that up.
Or is it YOU who hates America and wants to bad mouth us to the world?
<quoted text>
That was about the time you "got over" thinking rationally, caring about trying new things, and loving your neighbor...right?
So you are a lib this week, Saint? Well, ain't that sumthin'?!

You are correct. We conservatives can't stand watching our nation change from the liberty loving Republic it once was into your socialist state. Change just for the sake of change is stupid. Why can't we turn back the clock? If you are happy with the way things are..rampant abortion, school shootings, crime rates up, joblessness up, industry fleeing the nation, deficits as far as the eye can see, then just fess up...because YOU own it. It's what you voted for. I'll fight you at the ballot box every chance I get. But I'm also a realist. Every great nation in history destroyed itself from within. The United States might very well be next. But I'll rest assured knowing that I'll ride it out best I can, watching...and laughing. Hell, I might even help out a few former libs if they are contrite enough and admit the error of their ways.

John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson could not find a home in today's Socialist Democrat Party. They were far too conservative. Hell, neither could Franklin Roosevelt...he'd have had Muslims interred in camps after 9/11, and you lefties wouldn't like that. Truman would be out too..after all, he'd likely have nuked Afghanistan and Iraq, and you lefties wouldn't be able to stomach that either. One thing is for sure, real American Democrats from Roosevelt to Johnson wouldn't put up with the likes of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.

We're the sole "hyper power", and we can't handle little upstarts like Iran and North Korea? Your are fooling yourself. Our foreign policy is currently so fractured and scattered we cannot even protect our own Diplomats from murder in their our own embassies.

There is no doubt that a percentage of the military is liberal. I've met plenty of folks who joined the military just for a paycheck. I know of at least one who joined the military to keep from going to jail. You and I both know, however, that the military overwhelmingly supports Republicans. The liberal left's clearly stated goal is to change the United States from a Republic, as founded, into a socialist state. And real Americans aren't going to stand for that. You might as well own it. Unless your "skeert" to do so.

If I'm a minority (which I am not), so what? Majorities are often wrong. It took a majority to initially elect Adolph Hitler to power in Germany. Was the majority right on that one?

Me? I'd rather be right than part of the mob that is destroying our country.

Rule by majority? Wrong again, Saint. In a Republic, we rule by electing representatives. There is no direct democracy here as far as governance goes. You would LIKE to see a direct democracy, I'm sure. Mob rule is one of the clearly stated goals of the modern left.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#192 Feb 12, 2013
Saint_ wrote:
Actually, it's just changing it. The problem is that NEOCONs can't stand change. They want to go back to the Ozzy and Harriet days. Well, you can't turn back the clock and you shouldn't try.
Pretty wrong-headed statement considering I am Air Force and I know lots of fellow officers that are liberal as well. I guess we just volunteered to serve our country and possible give our life for it because we despised it, eh? How does that makes sense again?
Wait, doesn't that mean that the majority of Americans agree with liberal views? Oh, yeah, that's exactly what it means. You, Cary, are a minority. We rule by the majority here.
Really? As the sole remaining hyper-power on the planet, the most militarily powerful nation, and the world's biggest economy, just exactly how is it that we are in decline? You just made that up.
Or is it YOU who hates America and wants to bad mouth us to the world?
That was about the time you "got over" thinking rationally, caring about trying new things, and loving your neighbor...right?
So you are a lib this week, Saint? Well, ain't that sumthin'?!
You are correct. We conservatives can't stand watching our nation change from the liberty loving Republic it once was into your socialist state. Change just for the sake of change is stupid. Why can't we turn back the clock? If you are happy with the way things are..rampant abortion, school shootings, crime rates up, joblessness up, industry fleeing the nation, deficits as far as the eye can see, then just fess up...because YOU own it. It's what you voted for. I'll fight you at the ballot box every chance I get. But I'm also a realist. Every great nation in history destroyed itself from within. The United States might very well be next. But I'll rest assured knowing that I'll ride it out best I can, watching...and laughing. Hell, I might even help out a few former libs if they are contrite enough and admit the error of their ways.
John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson could not find a home in today's Socialist Democrat Party. They were far too conservative. Hell, neither could Franklin Roosevelt...he'd have had Muslims interred in camps after 9/11, and you lefties wouldn't like that. Truman would be out too..after all, he'd likely have nuked Afghanistan and Iraq, and you lefties wouldn't be able to stomach that either. One thing is for sure, real American Democrats from Roosevelt to Johnson wouldn't put up with the likes of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.
We're the sole "hyper power", and we can't handle little upstarts like Iran and North Korea? Your are fooling yourself. Our foreign policy is currently so fractured and scattered we cannot even protect our own Diplomats from murder in their our own embassies.
There is no doubt that a percentage of the military is liberal. I've met plenty of folks who joined the military just for a paycheck. I know of at least one who joined the military to keep from going to jail. You and I both know, however, that the military overwhelmingly supports Republicans. The liberal left's clearly stated goal is to change the United States from a Republic, as founded, into a socialist state. And real Americans aren't going to stand for that. You might as well own it. Unless your "skeert" to do so.
If I'm a minority (which I am not), so what? Majorities are often wrong. It took a majority to initially elect Adolph Hitler to power in Germany. Was the majority right on that one?
Me? I'd rather be right than part of the mob that is destroying our country.
Rule by majority? Wrong again, Saint. In a Republic, we rule by electing representatives. There is no direct democracy here as far as governance goes. You would LIKE to see a direct democracy, I'm sure. Mob rule is one of the clearly stated goals of the modern left.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#193 Feb 12, 2013
And to continue....cause you know I gotta!!:

Thinking rationally? I've been doing that since I rejected liberalism in High School. Try new things? I suppose I could try heroin..that would be a new thing..but I already know it's not good for me. Trying new things that I know are stupid is....well...stupid. Love my neighbor? Even if he/she is crack dealer or running a meth lab? Nah..I'll have to take a pass on that too. When you identify the people who are dangerous, or damaging to the neighborhood as a whole, you run them out like the dirty dogs they are.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#194 Feb 12, 2013
"One group of people naively believe that, in the absence of guns, criminal violence would be much reduced. They are quite wrong about that prediction: to the contrary, the strong would be able to bully the weak and we would be back in the Dark Ages...or the modern Third World."

http://www.a-human-right.com/guncontrol.html

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195 Feb 12, 2013
"Imagine a pack of hyenas stalking a human. As they close in for the kill, their intended prey repulses them with a rifle. As the surviving predators retreat, they think: "If only we could separate that human from her gun!"

People who think as those hyenas are less naive than the idealists who wish to ban guns outright. "Gun control" is a misnomer for what they have in mind. They are evil: they wish to control others. One of the easiest way to control other people is by making them defenseless.

Communists, fascists and other totalitarians world over have rendered their subject defenseless as the first step towards total control. Then they could imprison or murder millions with complete impunity."

http://www.a-human-right.com/guncontrol.html

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#196 Feb 12, 2013
1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, & Chicago cops need guns.

2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.

3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."

4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.

5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.

6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.

7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.

8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense -- give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p.125).

Continued here:
http://www.kc3.com/editorial/40reasons.htm
more

San Francisco, CA

#197 Feb 12, 2013
Cary L Nickel wrote:
1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, & Chicago cops need guns.
2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.
3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."
4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.
5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.
6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.
7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.
8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.
9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense -- give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p.125).
Continued here:
http://www.kc3.com/editorial/40reasons.htm
blog crp.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#198 Feb 12, 2013
"The Liberal's only method of debate is to appeal to the emotions of mis-educated and illogical persons. Liberals seek to insult and discredit anyone who dares to disagree with them, especially in the college class-room. Why? Because the facts of logic and history do not support the agenda they are seeking to advance."

http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/Politics/...
xando

Tempe, AZ

#199 Feb 13, 2013
Cary L Nickel wrote:
"The Liberal's only method of debate is to appeal to the emotions of mis-educated and illogical persons. Liberals seek to insult and discredit anyone who dares to disagree with them, especially in the college class-room. Why? Because the facts of logic and history do not support the agenda they are seeking to advance."
http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/Politics/...
HAHAHAHAHA

This coming from someone who repeats like a parrot every hysterical, emotionally filled, nutty rambling he can find to cut and paste.

Hilarious example if obtuseness.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#200 Feb 13, 2013
xando wrote:
<quoted text>
HAHAHAHAHA
This coming from someone who repeats like a parrot every hysterical, emotionally filled, nutty rambling he can find to cut and paste.
Hilarious example if obtuseness.
When the modern liberal can no longer support his/her argument, it is common for the modern liberal to resort to personal attack.
madness

Farmington, NM

#201 Feb 13, 2013
This is getting to be a sad, tired, head-banging-against-the-wall argument. Cary, it has nothing to do with being liberal. For your information, I'm a republican. A LOGICAL and rational republican (which, thank God, most of us are...you'd probably call me a - gasp!- moderate), but republican nonetheless. I raise my kids to have morals, to work had, to be good people. But you have to understand that when far righters like you say that guns are not part of the problem in this country, you really make those of your ilk sound ignorant, at best. Last December, a knife-wielding man attacked 23 students in China. Do you know how many died? None. Yes, lunatics will find a way to lash out and hurt. But the fact is, if they have less access to guns - more pointedly ASSAULT guns, less people will die. Pure and simple. Pure and logical. And true. Yes, violence in this country and mental health are also issues to be addressed, but for you to say guns are not something to be limited just shows either how your logic arteries have hardened, or (and I refuse to believe this), how you would place a right to have a TYPE of gun above the right of my little child to be safe. That's all I'm saying because I suspect there's just no getting through to you. I still support your right to your opinion. Good day!
xando

Phoenix, AZ

#202 Feb 13, 2013
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
When the modern liberal can no longer support his/her argument, it is common for the modern liberal to resort to personal attack.
Again, an overreaction. Pointing out that all you do is repeat rhetoric and cut and paste your hysteria is no more a "personal attack" than anything you have thrown out here.

You have not once done any more than say, "liberals are destroying America." No backup; just shouting your opinion, which is fine and your right, but you can never substantiate a thing you say.

All the "wrongs" you list as uniquely liberal have, in fact, been a collaborative result between liberals AND conservatives, which means you and the few like you are completely out of step.

In America, majority rules. That is uniquely American.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#203 Feb 13, 2013
madness wrote:
This is getting to be a sad, tired, head-banging-against-the-wall argument. Cary, it has nothing to do with being liberal. For your information, I'm a republican. A LOGICAL and rational republican (which, thank God, most of us are...you'd probably call me a - gasp!- moderate), but republican nonetheless. I raise my kids to have morals, to work had, to be good people. But you have to understand that when far righters like you say that guns are not part of the problem in this country, you really make those of your ilk sound ignorant, at best. Last December, a knife-wielding man attacked 23 students in China. Do you know how many died? None. Yes, lunatics will find a way to lash out and hurt. But the fact is, if they have less access to guns - more pointedly ASSAULT guns, less people will die. Pure and simple. Pure and logical. And true. Yes, violence in this country and mental health are also issues to be addressed, but for you to say guns are not something to be limited just shows either how your logic arteries have hardened, or (and I refuse to believe this), how you would place a right to have a TYPE of gun above the right of my little child to be safe. That's all I'm saying because I suspect there's just no getting through to you. I still support your right to your opinion. Good day!
After you run down the list of Democrat talking points supporting gun control, you want me to actually believe you are a Republican? Well, I don't. It's quite common for liberals to pose as Republicans on message bases, blogs, and chat rooms, in order to attempt to fool people into thinking that there is something "far right" about an issue. Such strategy is right out of the leftist playbook. Modern leftists have been moving the political "goal posts" to the left for decades. Some even have the gall to call Barack Obama a centrist, which is the biggest load of bull I've seen this decade.

My kids have been shooting firearms since they could safely hold them, just as I did when my dad instructed me in the safe handling of guns. I grew up around guns. My father owned a gun store. The fact is, there is NO SUCH THING as an "assault gun" on the market today. What you, and other leftists, call "assault guns" are in reality nothing more than a common hunting rifle dressed up in military garb. They are functionally IDENTICAL.

The fact is, leftists such as yourself are lying when they say that they only want to ban so-called "assault guns". You really are trying to incrementally steal constitutional rights from Americans, and you exploit every tragedy you possibly can to do so.

After all, it's "for the children", right?

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