No but really...

Tucker, GA

#21 Dec 5, 2012
The Real Antimouse wrote:
<quoted text>oh really? Does this fsm have a book possessing several prophecies that have already come to pass? Did it leave behind a holy spirit that speaks straight to god through us that even scientist can't disprove but instead hold evidence that suggest speaking in tongues is indeed impossible to make up due to decrease of brain activity during this time? I didn't think so.
There can only be 2 types of ppl who speak/interprets in tongues.
1. Con men
2. Deluded ppl.

In both cases it is easily debunked.

Step
1. Pretend to be a faithful.
2. Infiltrate their church and become 1 of them.
3. Have them perform a speaking in tongues miracle.
4. Turn on a voice recorder.
5. When it is your turn, say nonsense like "Fools you should join Islam" or something of that sort, in a language that you know none in church understands.
6. The deluded or conman will unknowingly interpret your words as instructions from the lord or something.
7. Let them use your words over and over a few times in the sermon.
8. At the end of the session (or maybe longer, just not too long as ppl will forget), reveal to them what you actually said.
9. Play back the recording in case they don't believe you.

Whether anybody would do it:

It depends, how evil an individual atheist is at breaking peoples hopes (false) or in some cases breaking a con-man's rice bowl.
Debunked

Tucker, GA

#22 Dec 5, 2012
There are two types of speaking in tongues mentioned in the Bible.

1) Speaking in a known language that is unknown to the speaker. No interpreter is needed. This would be like if I went to Japan and started talking English but everyone understood me in Japanese.

2) Speaking ecstatically (gibberish). This is commonly abused and identified as a prayer language. Be that as it may, it is not to be done in front of others without an interpreter (1 Cor. 14). If there is no interpreter, then it is not of God.

I have a problem with "speaking in tongues", because the idea is not very scientific. If we had an example of type #1, we could post him/her talking on YouTube and you'd suddenly have a scientific case of it that could be mass tested. It would be powerful evidence of God. However, nobody has come forward with the claim to do this, because it's incredibly easy to debunk if false.

In type #2, we could scientifically test this as well. You'd record 10 people or so "speaking in tongues", and give them to a good sample of interpreters to write down an interpretation. If they don't match then there is no such thing as tongues or interpreting tongues. It's very hard to guess what God would say if He spoke, so I think if there are interpreters they simply stick to safe things like quoting scripture or generic positive statements.
Debunked

Tucker, GA

#23 Dec 5, 2012
The Real Antimouse wrote:
<quoted text>oh really? Does this fsm have a book possessing several prophecies that have already come to pass? Did it leave behind a holy spirit that speaks straight to god through us that even scientist can't disprove but instead hold evidence that suggest speaking in tongues is indeed impossible to make up due to decrease of brain activity during this time? I didn't think so.
A very simple flaw in the prophecy-fulfillment argument is that foreseeing the future doesn't necessarily prove divine guidance. Psychics have existed in every generation, and some of them have demonstrated amazing abilities to predict future events. Their "powers," although mystifying to those who witness them, are not usually considered divine in origin. If, then, Old Testament prophets did on occasions foresee the future (a questionable premise at best), perhaps they were merely the Nostradamuses and Edgar Cayces of their day. Why would it necessarily follow that they were divinely inspired? Even the Bible recognizes the possibility that uninspired prophets can sometimes accurately predict the future.(Deut. 13:1-3, NKJV)
grammar instructor

Hopkinsville, KY

#24 Dec 5, 2012
the real anonymouse wrote:
I'm going to give the believers a break for once. It is just beyond lazy and not very much a sign of love to spell it "luv". I mean if you really believe in the power and are thankful for your salvation, don't you have the time to spell out 4 whole letters to describe your feelings towards Jesus? I mean if you think this man died for you, the least you could do is fully and properly spell out LOVE. To me it makes you look like you don't really love Jesus, or anyone, if you cannot dedicate the time and energy to just type it all out right. It's like you are saying they are not worthy enough to get your full devotion in mind and heart to be bothered to do things right for and by them.
Mr. grammar instructor we luv, luv,luv, luv, luv, luv, luv, luv, and luv u. Mr. English 101 don't you have the time to spell out "4"
IMO

Tucker, GA

#25 Dec 5, 2012
I think the mind is so impressionable that we have a very strong tendency to believe what we are first taught to believe, and with that belief as our presumption, we have a very strong tendency to argue that it's correct. In doing this, smart people can find reasons to continue believing even if the evidence is against what they believe.

The people who told you about Jesus were believable. And if necessary they pointed you to some books which you read which confirmed what they were telling you, including the Bible. The Bible confirmed some things for you too, that you felt the need for forgiveness. It also tells a wonderful story about a God who loved you in that he became a man and died so you could be forgiven. The gospel offers hope, forgiveness and peace. It also offers a relationship with God. You also seemed to notice that when you prayed, things happened, which confirmed for you God answered your prayers (although people who regularly read their daily Horoscopes claim they are accurate too). Then you got involved in a community of believers who encouraged you and suggested other books to read, which further confirmed your faith.

At this point you had adopted a set of control beliefs which subsequently filtered all of the evidence you were presented with. You wanted it to be true. You wanted to meet this God of yours in heaven. And you were comforted in believing you would be spared from hell when you died.

On the other side of the fence there are plenty of others who started out as believers like me, and then became non-believers. This shows people come to their own conclusions, that’s all. It says nothing to you about whether those of us who changed our minds had good reasons for doing so, apart from looking at our reasons. As such, the fact that people change their minds can’t be used as evidence for you to believe or not.

You believed prior to examining the evidence. You believed because someone you trusted told you a wonderful sounding story. Never mind for a moment that the person who told you this story neglected to tell you of the ugliness to be found in the Bible. Nevertheless, you believed based upon what someone told you whom you trusted. And that best explains why you are in the denomination you are presently in too, although you might be in one because of someone else you trusted, or something you read too. But this is merely switching rooms in the same house.

And that person whom you trusted believed for the same reasons. Someone he or she trusted told him or her the gospel story which was also believed prior to examining the evidence. I argue this chain of one person passing on that story to the next generation stretches back to the first century, too. But as we get back into the ancient superstitious past, people believed in lots of divinities and miracles based upon no evidence at all—none.
IMO

Tucker, GA

#26 Dec 5, 2012
Okay so far?

Here’s the deal. You believe based upon a person you trusted and in the story itself. In doing so it brings you a comforting (but delusional) relationship with God, which includes forgiveness, friends, and saves you from hell. And from that day forward you filter all of the evidence through your faith.

With such a wonderful story you want it to be true. You’re afraid to doubt for fear that you might end up in hell. So you look for ways to confirm that it’s true and that it can be historically verified, even though history cannot verify such things. So you read books that mainly confirms your belief, and surprise, you find that your belief can be justified. How many times when you doubt will you read what a skeptic writes? Not many Christians I know will do this. Instead, if they are having doubts they’ll turn to the trusted writings of a Christian apologist.

Only a few Christians will bother to read comments like this one because they know in advance what we’re arguing for is false, of the devil, and that we are willfully in denial of the gospel truth. Christians don’t trust us to learn the truth about such things. We’re just wrong. When Christians read what we say they only do so to prove us wrong. They already know in advance we’re wrong. Christians simply don’t trust us to be correct.

People believe in Christianity because they are already predisposed to believe it, and they likewise overlook the evidence against the Christian faith.
FOOL

Tucker, GA

#27 Dec 6, 2012
grammar instructor wrote:
<quoted text>Mr. grammar instructor we luv, luv,luv, luv, luv, luv, luv, luv, and luv u. Mr. English 101 don't you have the time to spell out "4"
Actually genius in English it is widely accepted to write the actual number when using digits 1-10 and spelling out the word for each subsequent number. Pick up a book sometime.:)
sugar baby

United States

#28 Dec 6, 2012
[QUOTE who="No but really..."]<quoted text>There can only be 2 types of ppl who speak/interprets in tongues.
1. Con men
2. Deluded ppl.

In both cases it is easily debunked.

Step
1. Pretend to be a faithful.
2. Infiltrate their church and become 1 of them.
3. Have them perform a speaking in tongues miracle.
4. Turn on a voice recorder.
5. When it is your turn, say nonsense like "Fools you should join Islam" or something of that sort, in a language that you know none in church understands.
6. The deluded or conman will unknowingly interpret your words as instructions from the lord or something.
7. Let them use your words over and over a few times in the sermon.
8. At the end of the session (or maybe longer, just not too long as ppl will forget), reveal to them what you actually said.
9. Play back the recording in case they don't believe you.

Whether anybody would do it:

It depends, how evil an individual atheist is at breaking peoples hopes (false) or in some cases breaking a con-man's rice bowl.[/QUOTE]
you are so wrong I'm No con man and yes the Lord gave me the gift of the holly ghost and yes I speak in tongues. The Lord said ask for the gift and you will receive it. It's better then ANY drug you will ever take. It gets you high on life and a feeling so deep inside that you never thought was there. It's a language that only the Lord can understand and sometimes He gives a person the knowledge to interpret it to others to speak out loud for others to get a word straight from the Lord. The Holy Ghost is a very powerful tool that the Lord left on the earth for us to survive. If you are unlucky enough to be here after the Lord comes and takes His bride away you will see a huge difference because He is taking the Holy Ghost back with us and it will no longer be here on earth to help guide you.
sugar baby

United States

#29 Dec 6, 2012
IMO wrote:
I think the mind is so impressionable that we have a very strong tendency to believe what we are first taught to believe, and with that belief as our presumption, we have a very strong tendency to argue that it's correct. In doing this, smart people can find reasons to continue believing even if the evidence is against what they believe.

The people who told you about Jesus were believable. And if necessary they pointed you to some books which you read which confirmed what they were telling you, including the Bible. The Bible confirmed some things for you too, that you felt the need for forgiveness. It also tells a wonderful story about a God who loved you in that he became a man and died so you could be forgiven. The gospel offers hope, forgiveness and peace. It also offers a relationship with God. You also seemed to notice that when you prayed, things happened, which confirmed for you God answered your prayers (although people who regularly read their daily Horoscopes claim they are accurate too). Then you got involved in a community of believers who encouraged you and suggested other books to read, which further confirmed your faith.

At this point you had adopted a set of control beliefs which subsequently filtered all of the evidence you were presented with. You wanted it to be true. You wanted to meet this God of yours in heaven. And you were comforted in believing you would be spared from hell when you died.

On the other side of the fence there are plenty of others who started out as believers like me, and then became non-believers. This shows people come to their own conclusions, that’s all. It says nothing to you about whether those of us who changed our minds had good reasons for doing so, apart from looking at our reasons. As such, the fact that people change their minds can’t be used as evidence for you to believe or not.

You believed prior to examining the evidence. You believed because someone you trusted told you a wonderful sounding story. Never mind for a moment that the person who told you this story neglected to tell you of the ugliness to be found in the Bible. Nevertheless, you believed based upon what someone told you whom you trusted. And that best explains why you are in the denomination you are presently in too, although you might be in one because of someone else you trusted, or something you read too. But this is merely switching rooms in the same house.

And that person whom you trusted believed for the same reasons. Someone he or she trusted told him or her the gospel story which was also believed prior to examining the evidence. I argue this chain of one person passing on that story to the next generation stretches back to the first century, too. But as we get back into the ancient superstitious past, people believed in lots of divinities and miracles based upon no evidence at all—none.
I can not understand how people who has known the Lord could say well I changed my mined. I have witnessed many miracles in my life and have had doc who believe in science say that could only happened because of a higher power. You bet your sweet butt it was from a higher power and His name is Jesus Christ the son of God who gave His only son to die for OUR sins. I've witnessed the works of God that would make a Christian take a second look and say wow. I've also seen evil that has possessed a person and with the prayers of believers that evil fled in the name of Jesus. Yes I was told about the Lord all my life. My family has many preachers. We are what a lot of people call "holly rollers" we are Pentecostal. But I have a personal relationship with the Lord and that is my proof that He is real. No matter what anyone says He is real and He lives in my heart and He is the keeper of my soul. I will never deny Him and He will never deny me.
sugar baby

United States

#30 Dec 6, 2012
IMO wrote:
Okay so far?

Here’s the deal. You believe based upon a person you trusted and in the story itself. In doing so it brings you a comforting (but delusional) relationship with God, which includes forgiveness, friends, and saves you from hell. And from that day forward you filter all of the evidence through your faith.

With such a wonderful story you want it to be true. You’re afraid to doubt for fear that you might end up in hell. So you look for ways to confirm that it’s true and that it can be historically verified, even though history cannot verify such things. So you read books that mainly confirms your belief, and surprise, you find that your belief can be justified. How many times when you doubt will you read what a skeptic writes? Not many Christians I know will do this. Instead, if they are having doubts they’ll turn to the trusted writings of a Christian apologist.

Only a few Christians will bother to read comments like this one because they know in advance what we’re arguing for is false, of the devil, and that we are willfully in denial of the gospel truth. Christians don’t trust us to learn the truth about such things. We’re just wrong. When Christians read what we say they only do so to prove us wrong. They already know in advance we’re wrong. Christians simply don’t trust us to be correct.

People believe in Christianity because they are already predisposed to believe it, and they likewise overlook the evidence against the Christian faith.
by the way in no way was I trying to say your a bad person because you changed your mind. I hope I didn't come off that way. I do pray that one day you will come back to Christ.
IMO

Madisonville, KY

#31 Dec 6, 2012
sugar baby wrote:
<quoted text>by the way in no way was I trying to say your a bad person because you changed your mind. I hope I didn't come off that way. I do pray that one day you will come back to Christ.
I believe that when someone feels the "Holy Ghost" it is, simply put, a state of mind; a trance. It's no different than people in cultures who meditate for years and master of the art of being able to withstand pain that would cause your average human to go into shock. I don't doubt for one second that it's a great feeling, a high, and something you enjoy.

Miracles happen everyday. Unexplainable by even the most brilliant scientist. Even someone winning the lottery could be considered a miracle. But that doesn't mean that a higher power was responsible.

I have a question for you. If you born and raised in a country dominated by let's say Islam (Egypt for example) what religion would you most likely be apart of and why? That's one reason I'm not a Christian.
sugar baby

United States

#32 Dec 6, 2012
See believing in the Lord means you have faith. If you don't have faith then what do you have? Kids go to school and they have a social study book with things that happen long ago and someone wrote down those things that we have to learn. We were not there to see Washington cut down the apple tree and hear him say I can not tell a lie but we believe that because it was in a book that someone we do not know wrote it down. So if you can believe that why oh why can't you believe the men and women who wrote their stories that are in the Bible? It's true stories that real people wrote and was put in a book that we call a Bible. The social study books is filled with stories that real people said and someone wrote the book for us to read and learn. People try over and over to prove Christians are wrong in their beliefs but yet they want you to read a book that someone wrote long ago and say oh by the way that dude was there over a hundred years ago and so that's the real truth. Well so was mark, Luke, & John and many others (more then a hundred years ago of course). You sound like your talking out of both sides of your mouth. Yes science is great but if it wasn't for the Lord science would exist. The Lord gives people knowledge.
IMO

Madisonville, KY

#33 Dec 6, 2012
sugar baby wrote:
See believing in the Lord means you have faith. If you don't have faith then what do you have? Kids go to school and they have a social study book with things that happen long ago and someone wrote down those things that we have to learn. We were not there to see Washington cut down the apple tree and hear him say I can not tell a lie but we believe that because it was in a book that someone we do not know wrote it down. So if you can believe that why oh why can't you believe the men and women who wrote their stories that are in the Bible? It's true stories that real people wrote and was put in a book that we call a Bible. The social study books is filled with stories that real people said and someone wrote the book for us to read and learn. People try over and over to prove Christians are wrong in their beliefs but yet they want you to read a book that someone wrote long ago and say oh by the way that dude was there over a hundred years ago and so that's the real truth. Well so was mark, Luke, & John and many others (more then a hundred years ago of course). You sound like your talking out of both sides of your mouth. Yes science is great but if it wasn't for the Lord science would exist. The Lord gives people knowledge.
For one the stories in the bible aren't about cutting down apple trees. No sarcasm intended. They are stories that are extremely far fetched. Stories that contradict modern science. Verses that contradict themselves. Several books in the bible have unknown authors. And you would think that with something that is so "important" there would be more eye witness accounts documented other than just the bible. But there aren't any. Most Christians believe the world is only 6 thousand years old. If as a Christian you don't then you are contradicting the bible. We have scientific evidence that says otherwise. I can go on and on. It's overwhelming.
IMO

Madisonville, KY

#34 Dec 6, 2012
sugar baby wrote:
See believing in the Lord means you have faith. If you don't have faith then what do you have? Kids go to school and they have a social study book with things that happen long ago and someone wrote down those things that we have to learn. We were not there to see Washington cut down the apple tree and hear him say I can not tell a lie but we believe that because it was in a book that someone we do not know wrote it down. So if you can believe that why oh why can't you believe the men and women who wrote their stories that are in the Bible? It's true stories that real people wrote and was put in a book that we call a Bible. The social study books is filled with stories that real people said and someone wrote the book for us to read and learn. People try over and over to prove Christians are wrong in their beliefs but yet they want you to read a book that someone wrote long ago and say oh by the way that dude was there over a hundred years ago and so that's the real truth. Well so was mark, Luke, & John and many others (more then a hundred years ago of course). You sound like your talking out of both sides of your mouth. Yes science is great but if it wasn't for the Lord science would exist. The Lord gives people knowledge.
And if the Lord gave us knowledge how he manage to screw up in his own book? He gave us the power to figure out how old the world is but didn't know it himself?
IMO

Madisonville, KY

#35 Dec 6, 2012
sugar baby wrote:
See believing in the Lord means you have faith. If you don't have faith then what do you have? Kids go to school and they have a social study book with things that happen long ago and someone wrote down those things that we have to learn. We were not there to see Washington cut down the apple tree and hear him say I can not tell a lie but we believe that because it was in a book that someone we do not know wrote it down. So if you can believe that why oh why can't you believe the men and women who wrote their stories that are in the Bible? It's true stories that real people wrote and was put in a book that we call a Bible. The social study books is filled with stories that real people said and someone wrote the book for us to read and learn. People try over and over to prove Christians are wrong in their beliefs but yet they want you to read a book that someone wrote long ago and say oh by the way that dude was there over a hundred years ago and so that's the real truth. Well so was mark, Luke, & John and many others (more then a hundred years ago of course). You sound like your talking out of both sides of your mouth. Yes science is great but if it wasn't for the Lord science would exist. The Lord gives people knowledge.
Never answered my question by the way.
sugar baby

United States

#36 Dec 6, 2012
IMO wrote:
<quoted text>Never answered my question by the way.
I understand that there are a lot of religions. The Lord said He wouldn't come back until the whole world knew His name. I know a lot of other countries look down on God but some of their people still serve God. God gave us free will He does not force Himself on us. I guess for me I believe that God sends people all over the world to speak of His love and kindness and I hope and pray that people receive His word and have faith and want to follow Him.

I also wanted to say sometimes science is not always right. They are humans and they do make mistakes. So don't put your faith only in science because sometimes its wrong. I'm proud of our scientist because without their knowledge ( which I believe comes from the Lord) a lot of people would have to live in pain or even die without the things scientist have come up with. It's amazing how for we have come. But I don't think we would be as far as we are if it wasn't for the Lord. But you know what the Lord said... He said in the last days there would be knowledge beyond our years.

“Dewey Beats Truman!”

Since: Apr 12

Here

#37 Dec 6, 2012
grammar instructor wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. grammar instructor we luv, luv,luv, luv, luv, luv, luv, luv, and luv u. Mr. English 101 don't you have the time to spell out "4"
I had nothing to do with grammar. In fact grammar is how you use words. It wasn't even about spelling. It is about claiming that a word has a meaning that is special to you but showing that it really isn't worth your time because the response is trite and disrespectful. If you think this was an English lesson, you missed the point or don't get it.
Thinker

Paducah, KY

#38 Dec 6, 2012
Jaysus

Newburgh, IN

#39 Dec 6, 2012
Btw, I think you've all been trolled.
papa roach

Hopkinsville, KY

#40 Dec 7, 2012
IMO wrote:
<quoted text>
For one the stories in the bible aren't about cutting down apple trees. No sarcasm intended. They are stories that are extremely far fetched. Stories that contradict modern science. Verses that contradict themselves. Several books in the bible have unknown authors. And you would think that with something that is so "important" there would be more eye witness accounts documented other than just the bible. But there aren't any. Most Christians believe the world is only 6 thousand years old. If as a Christian you don't then you are contradicting the bible. We have scientific evidence that says otherwise. I can go on and on. It's overwhelming.
I'm a believer and am sure this world is much older than 6 thousand years. How are you going to have eye witnesses for something that's 2000 years old? I bet you believe in UFOs. You are slapping us into one category. The Bible states the earth is round. Years later, people believed it was flat. Guess what? Also, the predictions in the Bible have happened, except for a few. They are next. Daniel predicted that God would send Jesus to save us many many years before it happened. He had several dreams and they all came true. God worked through more than just Jesus. He destroyed bad cities and restored good ones. It's also our job to teach people like you. We're not very good at it. Don't blame that on God and please don't make fun of Jesus.

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