To all of those potential employers who discriminate against felons

Posted in the Hopkinsville Forum

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Anti-D

Elizabethtown, KY

#1 May 24, 2013
To all of the potential employers who discriminate against felons who are qualified for the job. Here is the anti-discrimination statute for Kentucky. You can't legally discriminate against someone qualified for the job. And who meets said requirements for the position.

III. Nondiscrimination in Licensing and Employment:
Margaret Colgate Love, Relief from the Collateral Consequences of a Criminal Conviction, March 2007
Public Employment and Licensing: See Ky. Rev. Stat. Ann.§§ 335B.020-.070. Under §
335B.020(1),“no person shall be disqualified from public employment, or from ... any
occupation for which a license is required, solely because of a prior conviction of a
crime, unless the crime for which convicted is [a felony or misdemeanor punishable by
imprisonment] or otherwise directly relates to the position of employment sought or the
occupation for which the license is sought.” In determining if a conviction “directly
relates” to the position of public employment sought or the occupation for which the
license is sought,“the hiring or licensing authority shall consider:
(a) The nature and seriousness of the crime for which the individual was
convicted;
(b) The relationship of the crime to the purposes of regulating the position of
public employment sought or the occupation for which the license is sought;
(c) The relationship of the crime to the ability, capacity, and fitness required to
perform the duties and discharge the responsibilities of the position of
employment or occupation.Ӥ 335B.020(2).
Also, under Ky. Rev. Stat. Ann.§ 335B.020(3),“Nothing in KRS 335B.020 to 335B.070
shall be construed so as to limit the power of the hiring or licensing authority to
determine that an individual shall be entitled to public employment or a license regardless
of that individual's conviction if the hiring or licensing authority determines that the
individual has been successfully rehabilitated.”
See Op. Att’y Gen. 80-388 (1980): Conviction of a felony is not an absolute bar to an
occupational license. Ky. Rev. Stat. Ann. Ch. 335B supersedes all other statutes and
regulations as to licensing convicted persons. The licensing board should consider if an applicant has been rehabilitated.
Big Boss

Elizabethtown, KY

#2 May 24, 2013
STAY AWAY is probably right. If you admit to being a felon on your application, then you are most likely not going to be hired. If you lie on the application and are hired it could come back to haunt you. If you get hired for a job where you can get a promotion, say to manager, then the company will do a more through background check on you. If they find out that you lied, you will most likely be terminated on the spot for lying. Doesn't matter if you were the employee of the year. That could be a real problem if you have a family to support, and had to relocated for the job.
Most large companies do background checks so, even if you lie, the chances are it will pop up and they will not hire you. You could get lucky. Some companies only do county wide background checks and if you received the felony in another county or state then it may not pop up. But then again, if you advance in the company, and they find out about it, then you are gone.
However you can also look at this another way. If you lie, you get hired, they find out, they fire you. So what? That was money you would not have gotten if you admitted to being a felon on your application.
DON

Elizabethtown, KY

#3 May 24, 2013
From the Federeal EEOC http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/inquiries_ ...
conviction.cfm

"There is no Federal law that clearly prohibits an employer from asking about arrest and conviction records. However, using such records as an absolute measure to prevent an individual from being hired could limit the employment opportunities of some protected groups and thus cannot be used in this way.

Since an arrest alone does not necessarily mean that an applicant has committed a crime the employer should not assume that the applicant committed the offense. Instead, the employer should allow him or her the opportunity to explain the circumstances of the arrest(s) and should make a reasonable effort to determine whether the explanation

is reliable.

Even if the employer believes that the applicant did engage in the conduct for which he or she was arrested that information should prevent him or her from employment only to the extent that it is evident that the applicant cannot be trusted to perform the duties of the position when

•considering the nature of the job,
•the nature and seriousness of the offense,
•and the length of time since it occurred.
This is also true for a conviction.

Several state laws limit the use of arrest and conviction records by prospective employers. These range from laws and rules prohibiting the employer from asking the applicant any questions about arrest records to those restricting the employer's use of conviction data in making an employment decision.

---Meaning companies with blanked do not hire felon policies may very well be breaking the law, this will likely be in Supreme Court soon. In Indiana arrest records are not allowed to be used but the practice is standard. Gonna be some lawsuits
DON

Elizabethtown, KY

#4 May 24, 2013
The federal EEOC sets out clear guidelines on not having blanket no hiring felon policies. While the EEOC is not the law, Supreme Court Judges virtually always side with and even quote the EEOC when making rulings on cases. My take is eventually more will have to be done because there are so many felons, stealing a pack of gum can be a felony in Indiana. Virtually everyone here knows a felon or is a family member of a felon who is not a career criminal and it is becoming understood that instead of these people being a drag on the system (wellfare, recurrent incarceration, etc.) It would be better to give them a chance.
The Indiana arrest record law is different but related to the discussion of criminal records.
me to you

Elizabethtown, KY

#5 May 24, 2013
I think people that have messed up in the past should have a chance to live a normal life. How can you do that without a JOB. Do you want them to live off mommy and daddy, their girlfriend or the government? I am talking about people who want a new life and can't get a break!
Guilty proven innocent

Elizabethtown, KY

#6 May 24, 2013
I just wanted to say I was happy to read this because I'm a felon and I want to be a College Math Professor. I've always worried about not being hired due my charge which I was actually the victim of and it was turned around to make me the criminal. I was charged a year and a half after it happened, I fought it another year and a half, and then I couldn't afford the trial for 5 grand all at once. I told the judge I was innocent and I couldn't afford a lawyer for trial. He dismissed me from court. I was never given an attorney and they used my children's Survivor Benefits as my income even though I am not allowed to use it for myself. Only for them. My actual income was only 1000 a month, I had 3 girls at the time, and one on the way. I ended up pleading guilty after 2 lawyers, a private investigator, and getting a worse deal than I would have if I just didn't fight the case. I was/am innocent of the crime so I had to fight it on principle. My battle was lost. I'm almost off probation now, 18 more days, but now I've been violated 2 times in the last 2 weeks for using facebook and associating with a friend who is a felon. I am freaking out, and I don't understand why they can use things that aren't illegal to others, to condemn me. I was on facebook only to notify people of my daughters' father's death, and to locate his father whom I had never met until after my ex's death. I told my p.o. and bam, violated. Then I have my friend who I've known for 3 years and he helps me with my girls so I can go to school while my boyfriend travels all the time, and he's the only friend I actually have it seems, and when my p.o. found out he was helping me and on probation, violation number 2. I have 18 days left after being on probation for almost 5 years. Now I'm just getting violated all over the place for dumb things. Sorry, I guess I just needed to vent. Everyone just remember, felons are people too, and just because someone makes a mistake, it should not haunt them the rest of their life in all aspects of life. Do not judge, until you've been there. Just because you get away with your crimes such as underage drinking, smoking illegal drugs, etc, don't think you're any different. Most people have broken a law at some point, and even if you think it's small, it doesn't make you right or any more of a person. A good person is one with compassion and empathy. Not one who is judgemental. You can't judge someone off of one bad decision in their life. If you do, then you're just plain ignorant.
Anti-D

Elizabethtown, KY

#7 May 24, 2013
I have written every House Representative in the state of Kentucky, explaining this issue and the consequence of being labeled a felon. I have Twittered OBAMA and Governor Beshear. I had A state Representative present this issue to the House of Representatives in Frankfort. On January 8th, 2013 the House of Represenatives voted on the issue, and it passed I think 70 - 19 in favor of Expungement for people with Class D felonies who have turned their lives around and want a second chance.(Without being discriminated against by potential Employers) who won't hire you because you are a "Liability". Which they would not admit to because that would be DISCRIMINATION.
Anyway now the issue goes to the Senate to be VOTED on or not. If it passes there, it will become a law, and Class D felons can get their records expunged. I would recommend that anyone in this situation who wants to have a second chance at normal life, email, these judicial Senators at the following Link. "Convince" them in a smart, intelligent way that, they need to schedule a vote on this issuethat, the law needs to be changed so that felons can have a second chance, and that we deserve a second chance, to be productive citizens with no discrimination . Don't rant and rave that will only make them think you deserve to be where you are.
This is "THE" Branch that makes the laws in the state of Kentucky. The Buck stops with them. Convince them to change the law.

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Committee/interim%20joi ...

To read the bill as presented to the Senate go to this web page.(It is House Bill 47)

http://openstates.org/ky/bills/2013RS/HB47/

Committee Members:

Sen. Whitney Westerfield [Chair]
Sen. Katie Stine [Vice Chair]
Sen. Perry B. Clark
Sen. Carroll Gibson
Sen. Sara Beth Gregory
Sen. Ray S. Jones II
Sen. Jerry P. Rhoads
Sen. John Schickel
Sen. Dan "Malano" Seum
Sen. Robert Stivers II
Sen. Robin L. Webb
management

Elizabethtown, KY

#8 May 25, 2013
The laws may say that an employer cannot discriminate against a potential employee based on a felony..........The truth of the matter is though, you will be discriminated against. Why would an employer choose a felon when they can hire someone who is not a felon? There are less legal issues if a situation arises and the person involved is not a felon. The person who is not a felon may be in trouble, but the company cannot be held liable for knowingly hiring a felon. There have been managers who have stated qoute ' I will hire someone else, anybody else, before I hire a felon! The reason managers may give you for not hiring you may be many. Anything that will allow them to deny you employemnt legally. The true underlying issue is that you are a felon. We will not take a chance on you. If we don't hire you we don't have to worry about you, or how our coustomers will react knowing that we hired you. In management we can choose which college students we want. Do we want to hire the one with the 4.0 grade point average or the one with the 3.9 grade point average. Why would management want to hire a felon when they have so many other choices? Which brings us to the end of our interview. Sorry, but we have decided to go with someone else who meets our needs or is more qualified. I didn't even have to say you didn't get the job because you are a felon. "Even if you were the best person for the job and I liked you over the other applicants". Good luck to you and I'm sure you'll find something more in the line of what you're looking for with someone other company. Thanks for comming in anyway.
BOB

Elizabethtown, KY

#10 May 25, 2013
Ha, funny I'm a felon and a college professor. Society needs peace not hate.
Guilty Proven Innocent

Elizabethtown, KY

#11 May 25, 2013
I just wanted to say I was happy to read this because I'm a felon and I want to be a College Math Professor. I've always worried about not being hired due my charge which I was actually the victim of and it was turned around to make me the criminal. I was charged a year and a half after it happened, I fought it another year and a half, and then I couldn't afford the trial for 5 grand all at once. I told the judge I was innocent and I couldn't afford a lawyer for trial. He dismissed me from court. I was never given an attorney and they used my children's Survivor Benefits as my income even though I am not allowed to use it for myself. Only for them. My actual income was only 1000 a month, I had 3 girls at the time, and one on the way. I ended up pleading guilty after 2 lawyers, a private investigator, and getting a worse deal than I would have if I just didn't fight the case. I was/am innocent of the crime so I had to fight it on principle. My battle was lost. I'm almost off probation now, 18 more days, but now I've been violated 2 times in the last 2 weeks for using facebook and associating with a friend who is a felon. I am freaking out, and I don't understand why they can use things that aren't illegal to others, to condemn me. I was on facebook only to notify people of my daughters' father's death, and to locate his father whom I had never met until after my ex's death. I told my p.o. and bam, violated. Then I have my friend who I've known for 3 years and he helps me with my girls so I can go to school while my boyfriend travels all the time, and he's the only friend I actually have it seems, and when my p.o. found out he was helping me and on probation, violation number 2. I have 18 days left after being on probation for almost 5 years. Now I'm just getting violated all over the place for dumb things. Sorry, I guess I just needed to vent. Everyone just remember, felons are people too, and just because someone makes a mistake, it should not haunt them the rest of their life in all aspects of life. Do not judge, until you've been there. Just because you get away with your crimes such as underage drinking, smoking illegal drugs, etc, don't think you're any different. Most people have broken a law at some point, and even if you think it's small, it doesn't make you right or any more of a person. A good person is one with compassion and empathy. Not one who is judgemental. You can't judge someone off of one bad decision in their life. If you do, then you're just plain ignorant
Naive teen

Campbellsville, KY

#12 May 25, 2013
I was 18 and in love. I trusted that someone so much I believed him. I was told that I could write the checks to pay for our needs and my child's needs. That it was a civil matter and I wouldn't get into trouble. Guess what I was very much mislead. They ended up combining all of the checks together which came to a total of 550 dollars. Guess what? it is a class four felony. I did 18 to 2 in prison for it and even though it was 8 years ago it still is held over my head an makes it hard to find a job. I dumped him, am now with someone else, don't trust anyone, check into any company or person I deal with, work hard, and go to school. It's a struggle but I don't commit any other crimes and I don't have a bank account anymore. Does this happening 8 years make me a "monster"? I don't think so. I can't find a job because of it either though. I may have been naïve and stupid back then but at least I'm not hateful and judgmental now. You are not going to get anywhere with people with your attitude. Good luck and keep in mind that we "felons" are not always what we seem and are not just a number. You are more likely to commit a crime then I am to ever commit another one
Guilty Proven Innocent

Campbellsville, KY

#13 May 25, 2013
Guilty Proven Innocent wrote:
I just wanted to say I was happy to read this because I'm a felon and I want to be a College Math Professor. I've always worried about not being hired due my charge which I was actually the victim of and it was turned around to make me the criminal. I was charged a year and a half after it happened, I fought it another year and a half, and then I couldn't afford the trial for 5 grand all at once. I told the judge I was innocent and I couldn't afford a lawyer for trial. He dismissed me from court. I was never given an attorney and they used my children's Survivor Benefits as my income even though I am not allowed to use it for myself. Only for them. My actual income was only 1000 a month, I had 3 girls at the time, and one on the way. I ended up pleading guilty after 2 lawyers, a private investigator, and getting a worse deal than I would have if I just didn't fight the case. I was/am innocent of the crime so I had to fight it on principle. My battle was lost. I'm almost off probation now, 18 more days, but now I've been violated 2 times in the last 2 weeks for using facebook and associating with a friend who is a felon. I am freaking out, and I don't understand why they can use things that aren't illegal to others, to condemn me. I was on facebook only to notify people of my daughters' father's death, and to locate his father whom I had never met until after my ex's death. I told my p.o. and bam, violated. Then I have my friend who I've known for 3 years and he helps me with my girls so I can go to school while my boyfriend travels all the time, and he's the only friend I actually have it seems, and when my p.o. found out he was helping me and on probation, violation number 2. I have 18 days left after being on probation for almost 5 years. Now I'm just getting violated all over the place for dumb things. Sorry, I guess I just needed to vent. Everyone just remember, felons are people too, and just because someone makes a mistake, it should not haunt them the rest of their life in all aspects of life. Do not judge, until you've been there. Just because you get away with your crimes such as underage drinking, smoking illegal drugs, etc, don't think you're any different. Most people have broken a law at some point, and even if you think it's small, it doesn't make you right or any more of a person. A good person is one with compassion and empathy. Not one who is judgemental. You can't judge someone off of one bad decision in their life. If you do, then you're just plain ignorant
Sorry about the double post, I thought the first one didn't go through. Time delay there
The Man

Fort Walton Beach, FL

#14 May 25, 2013
WTF

“Dewey Beats Truman!”

Since: Apr 12

Here

#15 May 25, 2013
There are employers and temp agencies in town that are not hiring employees with too many traffic tickets, "bad" credit ratings, and just arrests or non-felony convictions too!
In many cases, it is only being used to keep out non-whites from jobs. They will use the excuse that they cannot help who fails the corporate background check. It is plainly and simply becoming a way to circumvent the Civil Rights Act, at least until Raggedy Rand Paul can do the Klan's work in Congress to reverse the law of the land that is!
The Man

Fort Walton Beach, FL

#16 May 25, 2013
Do the crime do the time
The Man

Hollywood, FL

#17 May 25, 2013
Life is a biotch

“Dewey Beats Truman!”

Since: Apr 12

Here

#18 May 25, 2013
The Man wrote:
Do the crime do the time
Okay they did the time. So you should be happy.
Management

Elizabethtown, KY

#19 May 30, 2013
DON wrote:
From the Federeal EEOC http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/inquiries_ ...
conviction.cfm
"There is no Federal law that clearly prohibits an employer from asking about arrest and conviction records. However, using such records as an absolute measure to prevent an individual from being hired could limit the employment opportunities of some protected groups and thus cannot be used in this way.
Since an arrest alone does not necessarily mean that an applicant has committed a crime the employer should not assume that the applicant committed the offense. Instead, the employer should allow him or her the opportunity to explain the circumstances of the arrest(s) and should make a reasonable effort to determine whether the explanation
is reliable.
Even if the employer believes that the applicant did engage in the conduct for which he or she was arrested that information should prevent him or her from employment only to the extent that it is evident that the applicant cannot be trusted to perform the duties of the position when
•considering the nature of the job,
•the nature and seriousness of the offense,
•and the length of time since it occurred.
This is also true for a conviction.
Several state laws limit the use of arrest and conviction records by prospective employers. These range from laws and rules prohibiting the employer from asking the applicant any questions about arrest records to those restricting the employer's use of conviction data in making an employment decision.
---Meaning companies with blanked do not hire felon policies may very well be breaking the law, this will likely be in Supreme Court soon. In Indiana arrest records are not allowed to be used but the practice is standard. Gonna be some lawsuits
You are correct, blatant, open, no hiring of felons practices may have grounds for lawsuits. I myself have seen TV commercials where they say that they don't hire felons. The majority of companies are not silly enough to make such a public statement. You speak of the ACLU and blanket no hiring practice lawsuits. How do they intend to prove that the reason a person was not hired was because they were a felon? Have you really even considered this? Its not like we have a banner saying "we are not going to hire a felon". We aren't going to put on the application "Rejected because of a felony". We subcontract our background checks to companies and "they" decide who passes and who doesn't. At least that is what is stated if the issue ever does come up. Of course we have the final say but, the results are going to be the same. If it ever does come up we will always give another "valid" reason why the applicant was not hired. Unless the ACLU can read peoples minds as to why a person was not hired, or if the company was stupid enough to put it down on paper, that the reason an applicant was not hired was because they are a felon, nothing will ever come of such a lawsuit. Besides I doubt if the ACLU or court systems have the resources to audit every company in the United States to prove discrimination. I have reviewed the anti-discrimination law myself. We have quite a bit of leeway there. It says that an employer cannot discriminate against a felon if the position they are applying for is not related to the type of felony the recieved. Or something to that effect. If for example they were charged with shoplifting, I can say they may steal from us. If it was domestic or assaut related, we can say they may be a threat to coustomers if some coutomer is not happy with a purchase and confronts the employee. If it was drug related, we can say we need someone who has proven to be more reliable when it comes to showing up for work. And the list goes on and on. You are very naive if you believe otherwise.
Anti-D

Elizabethtown, KY

#22 Jun 11, 2013
Senate Judiciary Committee Members:

Sen.(Whitney Westerfield)[Chair]
Sen. Katie Stine [Vice Chair]
Sen. Perry B. Clark
Sen. Carroll Gibson
Sen. Sara Beth Gregory
Sen. Ray S. Jones II
Sen. Jerry P. Rhoads
Sen. John Schickel
Sen. Dan "Malano" Seum
Sen. Robert Stivers II
Sen. Robin L. Webb

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Committee/interim%20joi ...
Trust Nobody

Hopkinsville, KY

#23 Jun 12, 2013
There is a legal way to get your record cleared. You have to hire an attorney in the county where you were convicted and jump through the hoops. This will also restore your civil rights.

Mouse wrote that employers are violating civil rights(paraphrase) well, no convicted felon has civil rights. They have humanitarian rights.

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