Symphony needs public support in hard times - Hawaii Editorials

[alice]

patricia wrote:

Enough already, for these people expecting hand-outs. A large number of people in the community are hurting, because of no jobs and no help from the State and City and County officials.

true..we want to help the human services..not mismanaged, tired silly syphonies that can never sell a ticket

[HJohnson]

Poi wrote:

<quoted text>
Come on buddy.
They learned on the street. No 40 dollar an hour lessons 4 times a week. No "understanding" of music theory. Nothing.
And yet I'm not arguing that they are pretty good. I'm arguing that they are better musicians in every way except the competitive technical area of playing music.
Again, if someone just learned something hanging out in the back yard and they were better than I was after decades of formal training and mounds of academic knowledge, I would question the time and effort put into that formal training.
And it's not the exception. Its the rule.
Name one symphony participant in Hawaii's history who was also a successful private entertainer.
On the other hand, I can think of 100 private entertainers who have no formal training and no academic music "knowledge".

Ray Kinney

[Poi]

HJohnson wrote:

<quoted text>
Ray Kinney

Good one. Surprised anyone remembers him.

Plenty more.

[Poi]

HJohnson wrote:

<quoted text>
Ray Kinney

Wait, are you saying Ray Kinney is an example of a Hawaiian who did play for the symphony or a Hawaiian who was self taught?

I know him as an entertainer but not aware that he played for the symphony. When did the Honolulu Symphony start anyway? Kinney was 40s and 50s I believe.

[alice]

I think the symphony should cancel the season and reortganzie as a much smaller organization. This community has had it with the symphony.

[HJohnson]

Poi wrote:

<quoted text>
Wait, are you saying Ray Kinney is an example of a Hawaiian who did play for the symphony or a Hawaiian who was self taught?
I know him as an entertainer but not aware that he played for the symphony. When did the Honolulu Symphony start anyway? Kinney was 40s and 50s I believe.

The voice is an instrument. He was both informally and formally trained. How's that. Ray Kinney 1900-1972 and he was not just a Hawaiian entertainer but an Opera singer and he became well known while first performing Opera in San Francisco. His friends and family knew that he could play the ukulele and sign Hawaiian songs, but I don't think that mattered in San Francisco. Don't believe everything that you read either. His surname Kinney is from the Kinne of Kings Lynn, England. He may have been some Irish as he was called the Irish Hawaiian,, but not from the Kinney line. I can only imagine that at the time it was good for publicity. Anyway, I hardly think that the Honolulu Symphony closing its doors has anything to do with being Hawaiian.

[Poi]

HJohnson wrote:

<quoted text>
The voice is an instrument. He was both informally and formally trained. How's that. Ray Kinney 1900-1972 and he was not just a Hawaiian entertainer but an Opera singer and he became well known while first performing Opera in San Francisco. His friends and family knew that he could play the ukulele and sign Hawaiian songs, but I don't think that mattered in San Francisco. Don't believe everything that you read either. His surname Kinney is from the Kinne of Kings Lynn, England. He may have been some Irish as he was called the Irish Hawaiian,, but not from the Kinney line. I can only imagine that at the time it was good for publicity. Anyway, I hardly think that the Honolulu Symphony closing its doors has anything to do with being Hawaiian.

Not many people know about old time singers.

Why do you?

Just curious.

[alice]

I can play the fife and I don't need anyone to pay me to do it!

[OMGWTF]

Poi wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, but all truly Great Artists are poor.
Good luck to all you great artists.

yes, almost all great artists are poor; so what? can't judge everything by $$

[OMGWTF]

Poi wrote:

I know the symphony types won't be the slightest impressed with this comment. They won't get it.
But most of the incredible Hawaiian (and I mean Hawaiian, not wannabees) entertainers DO NOT READ MUSIC. They never had a formal music lesson.
And yet, they can out play, out perform, out entertain ALL you "formally trained classical musicians". Nose in the air the way Barry Obama does it.
I don't know about you, but I would find it a little odd if so many untrained people "off the street" were so much better at what I studied for decades to be good at.
Funny kine, no?

yes, there are many great musicians who never had any formal training; but then there are more great musicians who had formal training than those who didn't. and how do you define 'out play' and 'out perform'? can't judge only by popularity.

[Poi]

OMGWTF wrote:

<quoted text>
yes, there are many great musicians who never had any formal training; but then there are more great musicians who had formal training than those who didn't. and how do you define 'out play' and 'out perform'? can't judge only by popularity.

I define "out play" in music as something nice to listen to which attracts a crowd.

The symphony can't do it playing "technical" music.

But you are obviously "too good" for me and the rest of us who don't find most classical music enjoyable to listen to.

[alice]

Many musicians cannot read music..not just Hawaiians. Trouble with Hawaiians is that constantly claim credit or uniqueness for things they deserve zero credit for and for whichy they are not unique.

[Yeah]

Poi wrote:

<quoted text>
I define "out play" in music as something nice to listen to which attracts a crowd.
The symphony can't do it playing "technical" music.
But you are obviously "too good" for me and the rest of us who don't find most classical music enjoyable to listen to.

A crying baby is music to a parents ears many times when they're first born. When the baby gets older and the parents have less worries, the crying becomes a nuisance when it's done for no reason at all.

You're that older baby. You need to grow up and sing a different tune.

[LOL]

Poi wrote:

<quoted text>
I define "out play" in music as something nice to listen to which attracts a crowd.
The symphony can't do it playing "technical" music.
But you are obviously "too good" for me and the rest of us who don't find most classical music enjoyable to listen to.

It depends where you are. In many places, folk musicians won't attract a crowd. You're comparing apples with oranges. What is "technical" music. You obviously know nothing about the music symphonies play.

[kaet]

Poi wrote:

<quoted text>
I define "out play" in music as something nice to listen to which attracts a crowd.
The symphony can't do it playing "technical" music.
But you are obviously "too good" for me and the rest of us who don't find most classical music enjoyable to listen to.

It's not about who's "too good". It's people's understanding (or lack of) that determines if you appreciate it or not. It's like that in all things. I LOVE baseball and I understand and appreciate every little thing about it (except the retaliation bean balls) but football does nothing for me. Big plays are exciting, but I don't understand defensive schemes and most subtleties of the game. It's like how US is not as much "into" soccer as the rest of the world it. Tennis bores me to death yet I appreciate watching golf. Some people hate classical music and some people hate heavy metal. It is useless to argue about what is better than something else because everything is relative.

[Poi]

kaet wrote:

<quoted text>
It's not about who's "too good". It's people's understanding (or lack of) that determines if you appreciate it or not. It's like that in all things. I LOVE baseball and I understand and appreciate every little thing about it (except the retaliation bean balls) but football does nothing for me. Big plays are exciting, but I don't understand defensive schemes and most subtleties of the game. It's like how US is not as much "into" soccer as the rest of the world it. Tennis bores me to death yet I appreciate watching golf. Some people hate classical music and some people hate heavy metal. It is useless to argue about what is better than something else because everything is relative.

Totally disagree.

Orchestra music is apart of nearly every person's life whether they know it or not.

Star Wars, Sound of Music, Looney Toones. There is no reason for a symphony to go broke in any town. They just need to adapt to local tastes.

Now if they have enough business with the high brow know it all types, then fine, but in Honolulu they don't.

They could easily incorporate Hawaiian musicians and high school prodigies into their shows.

Pavarotti was called a fraud because he "lowered" himself to many "pop" music formats. But he entertained the masses and got rich. Meanwhile the "purists" are sulking in their caves trying to preserve "real music".

Nuts.

[Poi]

LOL wrote:

<quoted text> What is "technical" music.

Technical music is music that is very very difficult to replicate.

Takes a lifetime of practice and usually involves musical styles, techniques etc that are of the highest level of difficulty.

Problem is, all of that has nothing to do with how enjoyable it will be to listen to for the average non-professional.

Artists who play technical music must be respected, but they don't necessarily have to be enjoyed.

That's what I mean.

[LOL]

Poi wrote:

<quoted text>
Totally disagree.
Orchestra music is apart of nearly every person's life whether they know it or not.
Star Wars, Sound of Music, Looney Toones. There is no reason for a symphony to go broke in any town. They just need to adapt to local tastes.

Wow, laulau. You really think exposure to symphonic music through cartoons and movies is enough to help people appreciate that genre of music? It's like watching baseball highlights on the news and expecting to buy season tickets based on those highlights. LOL.

[OMGWTF]

kaet wrote:

<quoted text>
It's not about who's "too good". It's people's understanding (or lack of) that determines if you appreciate it or not. It's like that in all things. I LOVE baseball and I understand and appreciate every little thing about it (except the retaliation bean balls) but football does nothing for me. Big plays are exciting, but I don't understand defensive schemes and most subtleties of the game. It's like how US is not as much "into" soccer as the rest of the world it. Tennis bores me to death yet I appreciate watching golf. Some people hate classical music and some people hate heavy metal. It is useless to argue about what is better than something else because everything is relative.

right on! can't agree with you more; i don't understand a thing about baseball but i know almost all about football. same here with tennis; i can't watch more than 5 seconds but do watch almost all golf. yes, everything is relative...

[OMGWTF]

Poi wrote:

<quoted text>
Totally disagree.
Orchestra music is apart of nearly every person's life whether they know it or not.
Star Wars, Sound of Music, Looney Toones. There is no reason for a symphony to go broke in any town. They just need to adapt to local tastes.
Now if they have enough business with the high brow know it all types, then fine, but in Honolulu they don't.
They could easily incorporate Hawaiian musicians and high school prodigies into their shows.
Pavarotti was called a fraud because he "lowered" himself to many "pop" music formats. But he entertained the masses and got rich. Meanwhile the "purists" are sulking in their caves trying to preserve "real music".
Nuts.

about the only reason for the symphony to go bankrupt is the lack of appreciation of classical music for the size of the city. on the contrary, the cities on the mainland, there are enough number (not the percentage) of people who do appreciate them. however, the symphony could play more popular classical pieces.