Elevated rail plan is the right way t...

Elevated rail plan is the right way to go - Editorials

There are 155 comments on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin story from Apr 30, 2009, titled Elevated rail plan is the right way to go - Editorials. In it, Honolulu Star-Bulletin reports that:

City Councilman Duke Bainum is like the guy who shows up late for the big meeting -- and everyone has to endure having to retell and rehear what was explained before.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

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BlackandWhite

Honolulu, HI

#154 May 14, 2009
Rail Pandemic wrote:
http://themoderatevoice.com/31 807/lies-damn-lies-and-statist ics-2/
Rank - Metropolitan Statistical Area - 2007 Popopulation

"Fewer than 20 of these top U.S. Metro areas have good intercity Amtrak passenger train service.
Who's talking about "intercity Amtrak passenger train service" here?

Have you seen one of those trains? Probably not!!!
Rail Pandemic

Wailuku, HI

#155 May 14, 2009
BlackandWhite wrote:
<quoted text>
Who's talking about "intercity Amtrak passenger train service" here?
"About 25 of these areas have a mix of subway, light rail, heavy rail and commuter rail service, though about 10 have only one modest rail system in place."

Read the story BlackWhiteMoron....
-Did you even notice that Hawaii/Oahu does not even make the top 50 in Metropolitan Statistical Area/Population Rank listings.

Of the top 50, 25 have NO rail mass transit system and they rely on a bus transit and cars for travel in the area.
BlackandWhite wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you seen one of those trains? Probably not!!!
Probably not what?
I've taken the Amtrak commute from San Diego to downtown LA.
Train Yes

Södertälje, Sweden

#156 May 14, 2009
It is very clear that rail is well on its way to construction and completion. The smart money knows that this is the first step in an important restructuring of island lifestyles for the next century. Clusters of dense housing without parking will drive ridership on the wonderful, fast and comfortable train system. The next generation will not own a stupid gas guzzler - no, they will simply rent cheap and efficient hydrogen and electric vehicles when needed. Vehicles will be owned by investment pools and handled like time shares - if you need a car this weekend, you rent it and avoid all the ownership and depreciation costs. For daily use the train and bus systems, soon to be complemented by improved bike routes, will be the way to go.

Selfish and stupid beats opposing the rail are simply out for the own selfish agenda. The smart folks know rail is the future.

besides, the silly croaking on these forums is ignored by those with mental prowess.
Rail Pandemic

Wailuku, HI

#157 May 14, 2009
Train Yes wrote:
It is very clear that rail is well on its way.
Selfish and stupid beats opposing the rail are simply out for the own selfish agenda. The smart folks know rail is the future.
besides, the silly croaking on these forums is ignored by those with mental prowess.
It is not very clear that steel on steel rail is the way to go.

The smart local residents know spending multi-billions on a 20-mile rail system build is not needed for future Oahu.

The selfish and stupid deadbeats promoting the elevated steel on steel heavy rail system are simply out for their own selfish and stupid agenda.

"Train Yes", your silly croaking on these forums is ignored by those with mental prowess.

That sounds about right.
Dont Be Fooled

Mölndal, Sweden

#158 May 14, 2009
Train Yes wrote:
It is very clear that rail is well on its way to construction and completion. The smart money knows that this is the first step in an important restructuring of island lifestyles for the next century. Clusters of dense housing without parking will drive ridership on the wonderful, fast and comfortable train system. The next generation will not own a stupid gas guzzler - no, they will simply rent cheap and efficient hydrogen and electric vehicles when needed. Vehicles will be owned by investment pools and handled like time shares - if you need a car this weekend, you rent it and avoid all the ownership and depreciation costs. For daily use the train and bus systems, soon to be complemented by improved bike routes, will be the way to go. Selfish and stupid beats opposing the rail are simply out for the own selfish agenda. The smart folks know rail is the future.
besides, the silly croaking on these forums is ignored by those with mental prowess.
This is a rail propagandist supposedly from Köping, Sweden. He spouts carefully crafted PR lines designed to make you feel guilty and helpless. He's most likely a highly paid Parsons Brinkerhoff Bechtel consultant, trudging around the world, trying to sell outdated steel on steel technology to anyone who will have it. PBB's profits are dwindling, and they're desperate. Their strategy is to build pipe dreams, create feelings of helplessness, and slam anyone who beleives differently. You are stupid and selfish if you drive a car. Paying billions in construction costs, bureaucracy bulding, maintenance, and future subsidies is "smart money".

He blathers, "It is very clear that rail is well on its way to construction and completion." What a lie. Thos who want rail are working as fast as they can behind the scenes to get land purchased and rezoned and to channel money into deals for TODs. Those actions will benefit politicians, developers and mortgage brokers no matter what -- but rail itself is far far away from construction.

Wake up Oahu! Why are you even considering ELEVATED rail? Aren't you a tourist town? NOBODY wants elevated rail racing over their communities 20 hours a day. To do that in Hawaii would ruin the landscape, as well as put your islands in taxpayer hell until the experiment fails and it is all torn down. Use your money sensibly and fix Hawaii's poorly designed freeways and side roads. It's something you'll have to do anyway, rail or no rail. And if you beleive in rail, wait a few years until the economy is better, your transit tax money has accrued some interest, and there are more options for quiet, wireless ground level commuter transit. THAT would be worth waiting for.
willie

Green Bay, WI

#159 May 15, 2009
"Clusters of dense housing without parking"

Yes we all know Oahu needs even MORE development.

We have a pretty good idea who stands to gain $$$ wise from rail, the question is who is going to make the really big $$$ from all the new development. Who gets to pay for all the additional infrastructure to support that new development...oh yeah, those who already paid for what we have.
Rail Is Best

Aachen, Germany

#160 May 15, 2009
The elevated steel wheel rail system is as they say: fait accompli. It is a dome deal. The decisions have been made and even though the barks and whines of a disgruntled few continue, most people understand that this project is 100% go-ahead and fast tracked.

This is a good thing. Unless the City moves quickly the distractions of the special interests will possibly impede construction and thwart the will of the majority. We see that often where a small but vocal and irrational mob opposes that which most residents desire desperately.

Again, there really is no point in continued blathering about "alternatives" - that boat has sailed. The notion that there will be consideration of anything beyond elevated steel wheel systems is grasping at straws and foolish. The money is already to hand out. Let's do so and start breaking ground on this excellent new and innovative transit idea that will benefit generations as yet unborn.

The desperation of the naysayers is apparent in their prattling of the same old tired and inaccurate remarks. Let's support our Mayor! Support our Council! Support the majority of the people who know RAIL IS GREAT!
Frank Genadio

Wailuku, HI

#161 May 15, 2009
Rail Is Best wrote:
The elevated steel wheel rail system is as they say: fait accompli. It is a dome deal. The decisions have been made and even though the barks and whines of a disgruntled few continue, most people understand that this project is 100% go-ahead and fast tracked.
This is a good thing. Unless the City moves quickly the distractions of the special interests will possibly impede construction and thwart the will of the majority. We see that often where a small but vocal and irrational mob opposes that which most residents desire desperately.
Again, there really is no point in continued blathering about "alternatives" - that boat has sailed. The notion that there will be consideration of anything beyond elevated steel wheel systems is grasping at straws and foolish. The money is already to hand out. Let's do so and start breaking ground on this excellent new and innovative transit idea that will benefit generations as yet unborn.
The desperation of the naysayers is apparent in their prattling of the same old tired and inaccurate remarks. Let's support our Mayor! Support our Council! Support the majority of the people who know RAIL IS GREAT!
Hernsdorf, Germany? Really; you almost sound like someone commenting from the DTS at Honolulu Hale. Those of us "grasping at straws" were encouraged by "Mine That Bird," a 50-1 longshot, winning the Kentucky Derby. It ain't over until "the fat lady (or large mayor?) sings." You mention council support when you really mean surrender; steel wheels have never received more than four (of nine) positive votes at any council session. If the council members, somehow, rediscover their "backbone," they can still use their budget powers to insist that the city DO THIS RIGHT and conduct an open technology competition. And if the Federal Transit Administration reads its own guidelines, it could still direct the city to re-accomplish the EIS to cover all qualified rail technologies. As for a "disgruntled few," you might want to read through the 1,389 pages of comments on the draft EIS; you will find more than a few complaints offering strong rationale for changing the city's course of action---not all of them from (what you refer to as) "special interests." Your thinking, mirroring the city's "disinformation" campaign, is precisely what has been and still is wrong with this much-needed transit project. Aloha.
BlackandWhite

Santa Monica, CA

#162 May 15, 2009
Rail Pandemic wrote:
<quoted text>

Probably not what?
I've taken the Amtrak commute from San Diego to downtown LA.
Then you must know, Amtrak is NOT what is being proposed here. Amtrak is intercity, not urban transit.

You must control your flights of fancy, RailP.
Excellent

Honolulu, HI

#163 May 19, 2009
Rail Pandemic wrote:
<quoted text>

I've taken the Amtrak commute from San Diego to downtown LA.
This vast experience explains your expertise on transit systems? Did you live in San Diego and commute to LA? Or did you mean you took the train once?
Vocabulary

Honolulu, HI

#164 Jun 8, 2009
Rail Pandemic wrote:
<quoted text>

The selfish and stupid deadbeats promoting the elevated steel on steel heavy rail system are simply out for their own selfish and stupid agenda.
"Train Yes", your silly croaking on these forums is ignored by those with mental prowess.
That sounds about right.
This is the depth of knowledge possessed by the main opponent of rail. That is, when not posting and parroting other people's writings.
RDSchooling

New Albany, IN

#165 Jun 9, 2009
Yes....everything the writer says about what follows city commuter rail line installation in areas bereft prior is correct. Perfect examples exist in the St Louis area, where neighborhoods literally blossom with vibrant new life, lofts, condos, upscale restaurants and entire clusters of new style vibrant communities come into existance due to the influence of available nearby R A I L.....it's really incredibe to witness. The same thing is occouring in the Phonix Az area even prior to completion of its commuter rail line. These are not isolated examples. When commuter rail goes in everything and more flourishes beyond wildest expectations. What new current history is telling us is that when we so readily threw away the extensive totally saturated rail systems of 100 years ago that were called interurbans, we were extrodinairly stupid almost to the point of being idiotic. This was done merely by the lure of the personal private automobile. Now many yearn for a comprehensive comnmuter rail system, like Europe, and while we will never attain this, wer can only look back to a time frame where this all existed here in America., .....100 years ago.
willie

Plymouth, MI

#166 Jun 9, 2009
RDSchooling wrote:
Yes....everything the writer says about what follows city commuter rail line installation in areas bereft prior is correct. Perfect examples exist in the St Louis area, where neighborhoods literally blossom with vibrant new life, lofts, condos, upscale restaurants and entire clusters of new style vibrant communities come into existance due to the influence of available nearby R A I L.....it's really incredibe to witness. The same thing is occouring in the Phonix Az area even prior to completion of its commuter rail line. These are not isolated examples. When commuter rail goes in everything and more flourishes beyond wildest expectations. What new current history is telling us is that when we so readily threw away the extensive totally saturated rail systems of 100 years ago that were called interurbans, we were extrodinairly stupid almost to the point of being idiotic. This was done merely by the lure of the personal private automobile. Now many yearn for a comprehensive comnmuter rail system, like Europe, and while we will never attain this, wer can only look back to a time frame where this all existed here in America.,.....100 years ago.
I am so glad for St Louis. Perhaps an update on geography for you RDS. Oahu is an island and as such has a finite amount of land and resources. It most certainly does NOT need more development, it has way too much already. Also, Oahu is NOT europe in case you didn't know it. What is currently proposed is 20 miles linking virtually nothing to nothing and costing the future wages of the next 5 or 6 generation just to BUILD. The subsidy to operate an maintain it will be out of this world.

If by chance you are offering to pick up the tab to build it then I would say it is great idea, if not then your points are pretty well comparing apples to oranges.
Observer

Honolulu, HI

#167 Jun 9, 2009
willie wrote:
<quoted text>
I am so glad for St Louis. Perhaps an update on geography for you RDS. Oahu is an island and as such has a finite amount of land and resources. It most certainly does NOT need more development, it has way too much already. Also, Oahu is NOT europe in case you didn't know it. What is currently proposed is 20 miles linking virtually nothing to nothing and costing the future wages of the next 5 or 6 generation just to BUILD. The subsidy to operate an maintain it will be out of this world.
If by chance you are offering to pick up the tab to build it then I would say it is great idea, if not then your points are pretty well comparing apples to oranges.
It is because Oahu is an island that we need to concentrate development rather than have it sprawled out.

Understand?
willie

Plymouth, MI

#168 Jun 10, 2009
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
It is because Oahu is an island that we need to concentrate development rather than have it sprawled out.
Understand?
Sure, just tear down what is already there, develope a real master plan and then rebuild. If you can't do that then any new development is insane.

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