Early ag lands identified - Hawaii News

Early ag lands identified - Hawaii News

There are 27 comments on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin story from Dec 21, 2009, titled Early ag lands identified - Hawaii News. In it, Honolulu Star-Bulletin reports that:

Combining technology and traditional archaeology, scientists have identified thousands of acres of land farmed by early Hawaiians.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

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label GMO Produce

Honolulu, HI

#1 Dec 21, 2009
This is an excellent article. Hawaii needs to use AG land to grow more food Hawaii residents can eat. Not GMO corns seeds the GMO scientist won't even eat. Thanks

Since: Nov 09

Kula, HI

#2 Dec 21, 2009
I think self sustaining is not achievable unless the consumers want to pay top dollar for their food. There is something wrong when produce grown in far off places can reach our grocery store shelves at a lower price than locally produced vegetables.
Maybe these university folks could look into that problem before declaring we can be sustainable.
abc

Lahaina, HI

#3 Dec 21, 2009
Kirch is the best. Vitousek a half step behind only because he's younger. Gotta create a system for rewarding the growers who now only get by as part time farmers. Prices too cheap, land and equipment too expensive. And we aren't willing to get back into the loi except on field trips.
Kupaa mahope i ka aina

Honolulu, HI

#4 Dec 21, 2009
If the stone-age people of old could figure out how to support themselves without dependence on the outside, we can do it too. But what they had, and what we are lacking, is the will. Seems to me the alii had to provide properly for the makaainana, or risk being overthrown or killed. Today, our rich and powerful are not constrained by that type of check and balance, so are not forced to be responsible to the people, and are free to line their own pockets and those of their friends to keep the dollars flowing out of Hawaii rather than staying here. In our society there is no reciprocal relationship like the ancients had. With us, the ballot box is supposed to be the mechanism by which the politically minded are kept responsive to the people, but that system needs to be overhauled, or at least tweaked, as the lives of plain folk are getting harder. Maybe the electorate needs to better educated to keep closer tabs on those who make laws, because it's obvious they are not doing their jobs. But with our public edumacation system in the shambles that it is, that makes if more difficult, doesn't it. Sounds like those happy brown folk with their stone age technology and supposedly oppressive and antiquated social system could teach us a thing or two about civilization.
Kuleana

Pearl City, HI

#5 Dec 21, 2009
Hawai'I had an 'agri-political feudal-like' system.
Feeding 1 million people who consumed at least 5# of kalo each, or 5 million pounds of kalo, were harvested and eaten DAILY. THAT was no small task. Pa'iai, the freshly pounded taro kept fresh for many weeks, was 'stretched' by adding water to what is known as poi.
But, that was just ONE crop.
In actuality uala, sweet potato was grown even more extensively, especially in those leeward/dryland areas as a mala'ai, dryland crop.
In addition, there were fish, pork, poultry and other vegetable crops that supplemented the diet of the Kanaka maoli.
Now this did not indicate, as often mistakenly portrayed by many bloggers on this site, that the Hawaiian people were/are moloa, lazy, beer drinking hanger-oners of society today. Tsssaah! U know who you are.
This system was abruptly dismantled soon after by the western introduction of diseases that wiped out most of the native people, plants & avian life in less then a century and replaced by the water-consuming, mono crops of sugar then pineapple and other INVASIVE, NON-ISLAND acclimated crops.
These were NOT to feed our island population, but to generate HUGE EXPORTED, TAX-FREE PROFIT$$$ for the missionary/business descendants who eventually, with the U.S. political & military influences, illegally OVERTHREW an already pseudo-democractic government & IS OCCUPYING our pae 'aina today.
The rest is the distorted, mono-culture of the "illusion of reality" of the 'occupant-influenced' history that we were taught, grew-up and know today.
So americans, educate yourselves before acting and speaking about Hawai'I and our ancestors as you have in such a derogatory manner as you've displayed here on these sites daily.
Kuleana

Pearl City, HI

#6 Dec 21, 2009
abc wrote:
Kirch is the best. Vitousek a half step behind only because he's younger. Gotta create a system for rewarding the growers who now only get by as part time farmers. Prices too cheap, land and equipment too expensive. And we aren't willing to get back into the loi except on field trips.
That's a lot of bull. look around you. we live on an island and if more people, especially the young were given an opportunity to learn to grow their own foods they would DO IT!
There's a lot of land in fallow RIGHT NOW, the sugar & pine lands that are being scooped up by continental developers who continue to grow 'housing' crops that make THEM RICH!
It's the attitude and middle-man who've put farming in last place.
The irony is that FOOD is important to our daily lives and we need to become independent not only energy wise, but by growing our own foods!
Kuleana

Pearl City, HI

#7 Dec 21, 2009
Kupaa mahope i ka aina wrote:
If the stone-age people of old could figure out how to support themselves without dependence on the outside, we can do it too. But what they had, and what we are lacking, is the will. Seems to me the alii had to provide properly for the makaainana, or risk being overthrown or killed. Today, our rich and powerful are not constrained by that type of check and balance, so are not forced to be responsible to the people, and are free to line their own pockets and those of their friends to keep the dollars flowing out of Hawaii rather than staying here. In our society there is no reciprocal relationship like the ancients had. With us, the ballot box is supposed to be the mechanism by which the politically minded are kept responsive to the people, but that system needs to be overhauled, or at least tweaked, as the lives of plain folk are getting harder. Maybe the electorate needs to better educated to keep closer tabs on those who make laws, because it's obvious they are not doing their jobs. But with our public edumacation system in the shambles that it is, that makes if more difficult, doesn't it. Sounds like those happy brown folk with their stone age technology and supposedly oppressive and antiquated social system could teach us a thing or two about civilization.
STONE-AGE!
WAKE UP!
Hawai'i were more literate and had electricity, telephone and other amenities BEFORE your own people in your own WHITE HOUSE and/or most of your population could read!
Close HTA

Honolulu, HI

#8 Dec 21, 2009
We all know where the ag lands stay.

Its about stoppin the government agencies who let developers pave over our ag lands.
Poi Dog

Wahiawa, HI

#9 Dec 21, 2009
Kupaa mahope i ka aina wrote:
If the stone-age people of old could figure out how to support themselves without dependence on the outside, we can do it too. But what they had, and what we are lacking, is the will.... Sounds like those happy brown folk with their stone age technology and supposedly oppressive and antiquated social system could teach us a thing or two about civilization.
My friend, those "happy brown folk" were doing what people all over the world have done and still do, to survive -- when they have to. Hardly anybody wants to put in the hard labor and money to make a farm sustainable. They'd rather buy meat and produce in a restaurant or store rather than grow it themselves. Even on the mainland, people from other countries do much of the farm labor. I'm all for farming in Hawaii -- but after decades of work with farmers, activists and community leaders, I have to say -- there's hardly anybody who wants to choose it as a profession.
UnQualified Hawaiian

United States

#10 Dec 21, 2009
Akaka Bill: More than 73% of Hawaiians not "Qualified" for membership in Akaka Tribe

bit.ly/8ma43x
boondoggs

Honolulu, HI

#11 Dec 21, 2009
Poi Dog wrote:
<quoted text>
My friend, those "happy brown folk" were doing what people all over the world have done and still do, to survive -- when they have to. Hardly anybody wants to put in the hard labor and money to make a farm sustainable. They'd rather buy meat and produce in a restaurant or store rather than grow it themselves. Even on the mainland, people from other countries do much of the farm labor. I'm all for farming in Hawaii -- but after decades of work with farmers, activists and community leaders, I have to say -- there's hardly anybody who wants to choose it as a profession.
that's b/c it's hard work for little pay. I've worked in an office & doing manual labor. earned much more sitting on my butt than doing real labor. definitely thought the labor should have been paid more. All the fat wall street bonus should be transferred to farmers. No subsidies for big ag, give to small farmers. farmers should be given the respect & pay they deserve.
Shroom Eater

Honolulu, HI

#12 Dec 21, 2009
The tide will change eventually and more land in Hawaii will be used to cultivate food crops. I remember seeing a show on PBS/Nova called "Rat Attack". It seems that about once every 50 years or so all bamboo simultaneously drop fruit, leading to a rat population explosion. The rats eventually eat all the dropped fruit but then the rat population must then turn to eating the farmer's crops, competing for food with man.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/rats/program.htm...

The stored energy in oil, is similar to the bamboo fruits. Oil has allowed increased yields in modern agriculture, which has also allowed the population of humans to explode. There will reach a point when any type of agriculture cannot sustain the current population of the time, causing the numbers to begin declining.

These traditional farm lands and crops will see a resurgence. Higher food prices will bring the change. Better to be prepared but maybe we cannot escape our destiny. Our Aloha Spirit will have to face its biggest test.
Wake Up

San Diego, CA

#13 Dec 21, 2009
Oh but we need to build more homes so we can get more tax money. This state needs to WAKE UP, before they sell all the prime ag land. Oh and MoFEE your train is NOT meant for this island.

“Kokokahi -We are all one blood”

Since: Mar 08

United States

#14 Dec 21, 2009
Excellent article. One of the best the Star Bulletin has published recently.

I greatly respect and admire Sam Gon's expertise and the work he has been doing for many years to do serious research on ancient Hawaiian cultural and environmental practices, and to bring the culture alive through reviving the language and protocols. Sam Gon is an amazing, very impressive fellow.
Local fisherman

Waipahu, HI

#15 Dec 21, 2009
Wake Up wrote:
Oh but we need to build more homes so we can get more tax money. This state needs to WAKE UP, before they sell all the prime ag land. Oh and MoFEE your train is NOT meant for this island.
Anti-railers just can't stay on-topic.

Back on-topic: There are a few organizations that are starting to bring back some of the old fish ponds. It's a good move in the right direction.
kupaa mahope o ka aina

United States

#16 Dec 21, 2009
Kuleana wrote:
<quoted text>
STONE-AGE!
WAKE UP!
Hawai'i were more literate and had electricity, telephone and other amenities BEFORE your own people in your own WHITE HOUSE and/or most of your population could read!
YouÂ’re taking my words out of context. I did not say our ancestors were backward, far from it; but you must read the entire posting to get that, and to get the tone of what I am saying. Instead you latched on to a perceived insult and sent your blood pressure soaring. And this is what we need to overcome, this behavior of flying off the handle without carefuly paying attention to what the other is saying, then making a judgement with less than all the facts. How do you know that I am American and not Hawaiian? Because I did not say what you wanted to hear, or that I do not agree with you, or are you just looking to pick a fight? Too many of our young people go off half cocked with a little knowledge, get angry and eventually hateful, then teach the children the same thing. We must move beyond this to come together as a people, but that requires enough humility to listen to each other.
Kuokoa

Aiea, HI

#17 Dec 21, 2009
So where is the map showing all the Ag lands in Hawaii? Hopefully not already covered up with houses.
Let us see the map and maybe some of us would like to get some for ag purposes.
Stone Age

Kailua, HI

#18 Dec 21, 2009
Kuleana wrote:
<quoted text>
STONE-AGE!
WAKE UP!
Hawai'i were more literate and had electricity, telephone and other amenities BEFORE your own people in your own WHITE HOUSE and/or most of your population could read!
To say civilization was in the "Stone Age" does not mean that they were uncivilized, it means that they did not have metal tools. Hawai'i has no natural metals, thereby preventing the Ancient Hawai'ians from ever becoming anything else in an technological sense. The Hawai'ians were amazingly adept at watching and learning from their environment. They had in many ways an incredible civilization as many ancient societies did. Unfortunately so many people tend to assume that saying "Stone Age" emans they are unintelligent. Stonehenge was built by Stone Age peoples, we cannot easily replicate that today with our Industrial Age tools.
So, if you use the term "Stone Age" to describe ignorance, you are only addressing your own ignorance.
As Kuleana states, after the arrival of the Westerners the Hawai'ians quickly adapted, learned to read and use the modern technolgy very quickly, so obviously they were not ignorant.
alice

United States

#19 Dec 21, 2009
very true...but the reality is there is little in ancient Hawaii that the world wants to emulate. Even its famed, and greatly exaggerated evironmental ethic, was a necessity given the limitations of the land. All of their environmental ideals were available to other cultures.
Just Saying

United States

#20 Dec 21, 2009
alice wrote:
very true...but the reality is there is little in ancient Hawaii that the world wants to emulate. Even its famed, and greatly exaggerated evironmental ethic, was a necessity given the limitations of the land. All of their environmental ideals were available to other cultures.
Famed AND greatly exaggerated? Interesting dichotomy.

Also, is not the entire human race bound by the limitations of our land?

Lastly, alice, you're a narrow minded, race-baiting idiot.

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