We are judged by how we treat our animals - Hawaii Editorials

I was absolutely delighted to see your excellent coverage of Mala 'Ai Opio organic farms, also known as MA'O Farm . Full Story
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Humble Earthling

Aiea, HI

#1 Sep 21, 2009
Thank You Joel. You will probably get flamed for your brave observations, but I admire you. I've been a vegetarian for ethical reasons since I was a teenager and saw the suffering of animals going to slaughter. I never did understand how people can love their pets and eat animals. I have a VERY hard time finding people of like minds, am always excusing my "strange" eating habits... but I would rather be without a mate then give up my moral and ethical beliefs. Mahalo again and God Bless the Beasts and the Children!

“Nothing Good Can Come of This!”

Since: Oct 08

Denver, CO

#3 Sep 21, 2009
Dr. Fischer - I admire your convictions, however some basic misconceptions exist in your article. Humans are and always have been omnivores. We need the meat that eating animals provides us. Yes, we have means to synthesize the proteins, but that would involve engineering products, which I am betting you oppose. We are not designed to eat strictly plant materials, we cannot break down the cell walls of plants. A strict vegetarian diet leads to disease and wasting. Go to most scientific websites and look, you will see the evidence. Additionally, your analysis of pigs as highly intelligent social animals is anthropomorphizing, the assigning of human characteristics to animals. By the way, pigs are also omnivores, and to the best of my knowledge, have been known to eat humans without compunction. While your beliefs are great for you, they do not necessarily bode well for the survival of the human species. Please don't be alarmed or offended, just accept that others may or may not align with your belief systems. The fact that an organic farmer eats meat does not mean that his product is any less wholesome, or that he doesn't provide a service to others. Accept that the service is provided and that the people who provide it are no less human than you. And are much more human than the animals they serve for food.
rope 1

Honolulu, HI

#5 Sep 21, 2009
What BS
yummy

Honolulu, HI

#7 Sep 21, 2009
I tend to believe that one of the best treatments for animals is a simple overnight marinade.
With a good sauce, almost anything can be choked down.
PS I enjoy commenting without reading the source article.
Captain Cookie

AOL

#8 Sep 21, 2009
Professor Fischer refers to bison as a symbol of the "pre-occupation" era. What occupation is he talking about? I didn't know bison had occupations. Oh, he means people occupying North America. Which people: Native Americans or those who came later? Is he criticizing this "occupation"? By Native Americans or just Caucasians? If he is opposed to occupations then why doesn't he take the lead and stop occupying Hawaii? By the way, Professor, Native Americans ate the bison. Are you going to condemn them? Or is it only Europeans who incur the wrath of Joel? Why is it meat eaters don't try to force vegetarians to eat meat but Joel and friends try their best to impose their views and lifestyle on others? Is Professor Joel going to criticize Native Hawaiians for eating pigs and fish? Or does his brand of social justice demand that politically correct ethnic groups are spared his disdain?
Meat is Murder

Kaneohe, HI

#9 Sep 21, 2009
Humans haven't always been omnivores, boy are there some mean and ignorant comments here. Sigh.
elaine

United States

#12 Sep 21, 2009
In all due respect to Ghandi, I would rather be judged by how we treat People rather than animals! Bison meat is leaner and better meat for consumption. They are being raised for consuption and NO longer an endangered species just as the buffalo.

“Nothing Good Can Come of This!”

Since: Oct 08

Denver, CO

#15 Sep 21, 2009
Meat is Murder wrote:
Humans haven't always been omnivores, boy are there some mean and ignorant comments here. Sigh.
Nope, sorry. That's why we have teeth that tear,puncture, and grind....
Oahu Portagee

Honolulu, HI

#16 Sep 21, 2009
Meat is Murder wrote:
Humans haven't always been omnivores, boy are there some mean and ignorant comments here. Sigh.
Name me one single great society/population of people that did not eat ANY animal products. It is only in America (where food is abundant) that one can CHOOSE to be a vegan. If you live in an area of the world where food is lacking, you'd be a fool to refuse some animal protein if you were offered it.

The Native Hawaiians ate mostly a plant-based diet; however, they also ate fish, chicken, pork, and dogs in small amounts. There is no such culture who lived near the ocean and did not eat fish. Eskimos ate whale, polar bear, and seals.

I am all for a plant-based diet; however, to say that a vegan diet is the best diet for mankind is RIDICULOUS.
Oahu Portagee

Honolulu, HI

#17 Sep 21, 2009
Captain Cookie wrote:
Professor Fischer refers to bison as a symbol of the "pre-occupation" era...By the way, Professor, Native Americans ate the bison. Are you going to condemn them? Is Professor Joel going to criticize Native Hawaiians for eating pigs and fish?
Native Americans only started eating bison, in large quantities, after the Europeans introduced firearms to them. So, contrary to popular belief, Native Americans did not eat meat in massive quantities. They ate it, but they didn't eat a lot of it. Their staples were wild corn, tubers, roots, berries, etc.

As for the Hawaiians, as I already mentioned, they didn't eat pig, chicken and even fish in massive quantities. They ate it in small quantities. Pig and dog were only eaten during special occasions, and usually only by the royalty. Fish was eaten, but there were also restrictions on certain fish.

The bottom line is that the staples of ancient Hawaii were taro, sweet potato, bananas, and limu. Animal protein was eaten in much smaller quantities.
Oahu Portagee

Honolulu, HI

#18 Sep 21, 2009
Keoni K wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, sorry. That's why we have teeth that tear,puncture, and grind....
As long as your meat comes boneless, in foam tray that is nicely wrapped in plastic wrap, from the supermarket, your human teeth are "ok". Oh yeah, you will also likely need to cook the meat first before you eat it so you don't get bacterial contamination. A steak knife may also help too.

Have you ever tried jumping onto the back of a cow and tried taking a chunk of meat out of his back?? If you did, I think you would find your human "teeth" is pretty much useless.
KaLahuiHawaii

Honolulu, HI

#19 Sep 21, 2009
yummy wrote:
I tend to believe that one of the best treatments for animals is a simple overnight marinade.
With a good sauce, almost anything can be choked down.
PS I enjoy commenting without reading the source article.
Agreed. Looking forward to the next luau, with the pig in the imu. An occasional dog in the imu sounds good too, like it used to be in the old days.
Vegan Lady

Honolulu, HI

#20 Sep 21, 2009
elaine wrote:
In all due respect to Ghandi, I would rather be judged by how we treat People rather than animals! Bison meat is leaner and better meat for consumption. They are being raised for consuption and NO longer an endangered species just as the buffalo.
If that's your logic, then why be kind to your pets? Why prosecute people who are cruel to pets? I urge you to read two books, "Thanking the Monkey" and "World Peace Diet." People who are cruel to animals are more likely to be cruel to human beings as well. Why can't we be kind to both animals AND humans? They don't necessarily contradict each other but rather go hand in hand.
Vegan Lady

Honolulu, HI

#21 Sep 21, 2009
Oahu Portagee wrote:
<quoted text>
Name me one single great society/population of people that did not eat ANY animal products. It is only in America (where food is abundant) that one can CHOOSE to be a vegan. If you live in an area of the world where food is lacking, you'd be a fool to refuse some animal protein if you were offered it.
The Native Hawaiians ate mostly a plant-based diet; however, they also ate fish, chicken, pork, and dogs in small amounts. There is no such culture who lived near the ocean and did not eat fish. Eskimos ate whale, polar bear, and seals.
I am all for a plant-based diet; however, to say that a vegan diet is the best diet for mankind is RIDICULOUS.
Sorry but you are wrong. I've been a vegan for years and my health is great for my early sixties. I fared worse when I wasn't a vegan, had more colds and sicknesses.

As for cultures that did not eat meat, there are the Jaines in India and other sects in India, the one-time Essenes near the Dead Sea in the time of Jesus. And according to statistics, 31% of the population in India is vegetarian and Kerala which is in the west coast is predominantly vegetarian as well as environmentally progressive.
Lefty

Honolulu, HI

#22 Sep 21, 2009
Vegan Lady wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry but you are wrong. I've been a vegan for years and my health is great for my early sixties. I fared worse when I wasn't a vegan, had more colds and sicknesses.
As for cultures that did not eat meat, there are the Jaines in India and other sects in India, the one-time Essenes near the Dead Sea in the time of Jesus. And according to statistics, 31% of the population in India is vegetarian and Kerala which is in the west coast is predominantly vegetarian as well as environmentally progressive.
So what? Its all irrelevant. There are probably vegans who croaked before they were 50 and meat eaters who lived to be over 100. Why can't you just enjoy your veggies and quit preaching to the rest of us.
Oahu Portagee

Honolulu, HI

#23 Sep 21, 2009
Vegan Lady wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry but you are wrong. I've been a vegan for years and my health is great for my early sixties. I fared worse when I wasn't a vegan, had more colds and sicknesses.
As for cultures that did not eat meat, there are the Jaines in India and other sects in India, the one-time Essenes near the Dead Sea in the time of Jesus. And according to statistics, 31% of the population in India is vegetarian and Kerala which is in the west coast is predominantly vegetarian as well as environmentally progressive.
Yes, there are many people in India who are vegetarian, but there are more that ARE NOT. Also, most Indians are vegetarian, but NOT vegan. One word to prove this - their almost universal use of Ghee. I rest my case.
Realist

Waianae, HI

#24 Sep 22, 2009
yummy wrote:
I tend to believe that one of the best treatments for animals is a simple overnight marinade.
With a good sauce, almost anything can be choked down.
PS I enjoy commenting without reading the source article.
Well don't worry....you didn't miss much, as it was about you and yours anyhow.
Tell grandma we said HI.
Realist

Waianae, HI

#25 Sep 22, 2009
Lefty wrote:
<quoted text>So what? Its all irrelevant. There are probably vegans who croaked before they were 50 and meat eaters who lived to be over 100. Why can't you just enjoy your veggies and quit preaching to the rest of us.
I hear that once you go vegan, they sag less. Is that true?(sips into wineglass)
Realist

Waianae, HI

#27 Sep 22, 2009
Perhaps a bunch of hypocritical vegans?
unknown

Honolulu, HI

#28 Sep 22, 2009
i just read your very interesting article about Ma'o organic farms Aina dedication. i have a few words to say about that. first of all do you know what organic means? OBVIOUSLY NOT. just because they had a pig at the dedication doesnt mean they are not organic. they are here to help us you idiot. they are trying to bring back the hawaiian culture. your missing the big picture about the goal that Ma'o is trying to achieve. you know what you should do with your meat? you should BEAT it.

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