New York Primary Election Sept 14: Wi...

New York Primary Election Sept 14: Will you vote?

Created by Top Mod2 on Sep 13, 2010

3,769 votes

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Brown trout

Brooklyn, NY

#5024 Jun 2, 2012
Your making me cry!!! My brother would say the same!!!
Michael

Owego, NY

#5025 Jun 2, 2012
Brown trout wrote:
Thank you for the input. A real number has always been difficult to determine. Not to mention weather or not life is or will be better for the 28.000.000 Iraqis who remain.
I'm a consultant ( engineer ) and have been offered a short gig over in Dubai - right down the Saudi coast from Iraq...

If I take and head over there in a few months... one of the things I will be curious to find out is how the locals view the situation... good or bad... estimates of the number of people who died and so forth... and how all of that compares to what the western media portrays to those of us in the USA etc....

Its not that I am necessarily to take what I hear as gospel or an indictment of the news we get - if the numbers differ... more along the lines of seeing WHY they differ... different counting methods... those in favor of the war in the Middle East down playing the numbers and decreasing them... those against it increasing them... or whatever.

Re-reading all that it might sound a bit morbid... but I've traveled a lot for work and I've always been amazed at the different views one gets as you move from one country ( and their media / etc.) to the next... with the information or the way its presented being often contradictory.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#5026 Jun 2, 2012
still got my dog tag on key chain, lost the other in early 70s.always amazed at how many people are eager to nuke and blast people back to stone age,or send troops to war who have never seen wars face up close.
Brown trout

Brooklyn, NY

#5027 Jun 2, 2012
You have a good head on your shoulders! Nothing is more important than honesty, morals, and the process of seeking the truth! It isn't easy, but the majority of people want to be led by people like you!
Michael

Owego, NY

#5028 Jun 2, 2012
My idea of a perfect system of government is strange women lying in ponds distributing swords...

What can I say - we've been watching Monty Python tonight...

;-)
Brown trout

Brooklyn, NY

#5029 Jun 2, 2012
We all have a little bill Clinton, and john Edwards in us. It's the cross we bare.
Brown trout

Brooklyn, NY

#5030 Jun 2, 2012
xuanloc wrote:
still got my dog tag on key chain, lost the other in early 70s.always amazed at how many people are eager to nuke and blast people back to stone age,or send troops to war who have never seen wars face up close.
I think the person who gave you the nut are the people you are talking about. War is not pretty! It's not a movie, or a video game. Real lives are being lost! Most of the time innocent people. If another country invaded this country, and we picked up our guns to defend our property. Would we be terrorists?
Teddy R

Muscat, Oman

#5031 Jun 2, 2012
Brown trout wrote:
<quoted text>
Was it maybe bush and chenneys intention to conquer the middle east?
Why? For what purpose?
Brown trout

Brooklyn, NY

#5032 Jun 2, 2012
Oil, and haliberton.
Teddy R

Muscat, Oman

#5033 Jun 2, 2012
Brown trout wrote:
Will bush, Cheney, Grover norquist be remembered as honest, moral men who did not use power, and war to becom rich while exploiting the environment?
You're one confused puppydog, son.

Mankind has been exploiting the environment for wealth since the first cave-man started making fire.

Likewise mankind has been making war and relying on the power of 'might makes right' to gain wealth for just as long. The federal government relies on power and 'might makes right' to gain wealth from Americans. Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it - it's in the DNA.

So which exactly is your problem? Mankind using war, power, and the environment to gain wealth?

Or three guys whose political views you just don't happen to agree with?

Because you're tarring one with the brush of the other irrationally.
Michael

Owego, NY

#5034 Jun 2, 2012
Brown trout wrote:
We all have a little bill Clinton, and john Edwards in us. It's the cross we bare.
It was a play on this from Monty Python / The Holy Grail... I must be getting old... lol

ARTHUR: How do you do, good lady. I am Arthur, King of the Britons.
Who's castle is that?

WOMAN: King of the who?

ARTHUR: The Britons.

WOMAN: Who are the Britons?

ARTHUR: Well, we all are. we're all Britons and I am your king.

WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous
collective.

DENNIS: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship.
A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--

WOMAN: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.

DENNIS: That's what it's all about if only people would--

ARTHUR: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives
in that castle?

WOMAN: No one live there.

ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?

WOMAN: We don't have a lord.

ARTHUR: What?

DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take
it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.

ARTHUR: Yes.

DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified
at a special biweekly meeting.

ARTHUR: Yes, I see.

DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--

ARTHUR: Be quiet!

DENNIS:--but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--

ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!

WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?

ARTHUR: I am your king!

WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.

ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.

WOMAN: Well,'ow did you become king then?

ARTHUR: The Lady of the Lake,
her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur
from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I,
Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.
That is why I am your king!

DENNIS: Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical
aquatic ceremony.
Teddy R

Muscat, Oman

#5035 Jun 2, 2012
Brown trout wrote:
Oil, and haliberton.
Oil is a commodity product freely traded on the world market.

Halliburton is a corporation.

Neither is a reason.

Try again.

Caution - some thought might be required on your part.
Michael

Owego, NY

#5036 Jun 2, 2012
Pasted more than I thought... but the quote is at the bottom of it all...

Oops.
Brown trout

Brooklyn, NY

#5037 Jun 2, 2012
Teddy I had so much respect for you before you called me a confused puppy SON. What don't we agree on?
Michael

Owego, NY

#5038 Jun 2, 2012
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Likewise mankind has been making war and relying on the power of 'might makes right' to gain wealth for just as long. The federal government relies on power and 'might makes right' to gain wealth from Americans.
I just want to make sure that I understand that part of your post correctly...

Are you truly justifying the loss of lives - however many and in this case on the order of a million lives all told - in the pursuit of wealth ?
Brown trout

Brooklyn, NY

#5039 Jun 2, 2012
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Oil is a commodity product freely traded on the world market.
Halliburton is a corporation.
Neither is a reason.
Try again.
Caution - some thought might be required on your part.
Oil is running out, and halliberton prospers from war, death, and distraction. I don't know what else to say.
Teddy R

Switzerland

#5040 Jun 2, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm a consultant ( engineer ) and have been offered a short gig over in Dubai - right down the Saudi coast from Iraq...
If I take and head over there in a few months... one of the things I will be curious to find out is how the locals view the situation... good or bad... estimates of the number of people who died and so forth... and how all of that compares to what the western media portrays to those of us in the USA etc....
Its not that I am necessarily to take what I hear as gospel or an indictment of the news we get - if the numbers differ... more along the lines of seeing WHY they differ... different counting methods... those in favor of the war in the Middle East down playing the numbers and decreasing them... those against it increasing them... or whatever.
Re-reading all that it might sound a bit morbid... but I've traveled a lot for work and I've always been amazed at the different views one gets as you move from one country ( and their media / etc.) to the next... with the information or the way its presented being often contradictory.
I think (speaking from first-hand experience) you will find the following:
1) The "locals" you will be meeting and interacting with face to face will not be local Emiratis at all 98% of the time - they will be expatriates. Pakis, Indians, Filipinos, Turks, some expatriate Arabs, a smattering of Europeans and the odd Yank.
2) Few if any of these expatriates are going to have any interest in sharing with you "how the locals view the situation" - generally they don't give a rat's ass about the Iraq wars or your desire to obsess over them. They already know exactly what a monster Saddam was - just as they know Assad. It's common knowledge, the region has been run this way forever, and it's not news. Besides, 100% of their waking hours are devoted to making as much money there as they can. They are entirely apolitical. You are living in a closed, autocratic society, everyone is under surveillance, and troublemakers get deported. There is no free press. No one talks politics.
3) On the relatively rare occasions you do get a glimpse of "how the locals view the situation," you will find that view to be dominated by a) racism, b) ancient Sunni vs. Shia and tribal feuds, c) the Iranian threat to "moderate" Arab states, and d) the "Palestinian question."
Teddy R

Switzerland

#5041 Jun 2, 2012
Brown trout wrote:
Teddy I had so much respect for you before you called me a confused puppy SON. What don't we agree on?
Apologies.

I get a little tired of the mindless partisan hackery whining about Bush and Cheney (and ... Grover Norquist?? Seriously?? How many wars and megadeaths does he have on his head?), is all.

Acting like war and power and exploitation of the environment was just invented in 2000 ... or 1980, or ...(pick any election in which the GOP candidate was elected) is just plain stupid.

Just seeking clarity - are you simply fapping off bashing Bush and Cheney (in which case we'll just quietly close the door until you're finished), or are you seriously expecting humankind to completely transform its behavior from the millenia spent using war, power, and exploitation of the environment to gain wealth?

Two separate issues - which are you talking about?
Michael

Owego, NY

#5042 Jun 2, 2012
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
I think (speaking from first-hand experience) you will find the following:

3) On the relatively rare occasions you do get a glimpse of "how the locals view the situation," you will find that view to be dominated by a) racism, b) ancient Sunni vs. Shia and tribal feuds, c) the Iranian threat to "moderate" Arab states, and d) the "Palestinian question."
When I travel for work or whatever - I tend to shy away from the tourist and expat areas... simply because my view is that if I'm going to hang around such places I might as well stay home...

Having said that...

The item that I quoted from your post - I'm sure will color any feedback I receive... but that's the point... part of the "exercise" i.e. to figure out how they are coming to their conclusions / numbers / whatever and which of those a/b/c/d categories are coloring their views either directly or indirectly...

Btw I do realize that some of what I'm saying might just come off as strange... but the thing is that while I'm an engineer - I also majored in Sociology in college... and stuff like this did and does interest me for a number of reasons...
Michael

Owego, NY

#5043 Jun 2, 2012
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
or are you seriously expecting humankind to completely transform its behavior from the millenia spent using war, power, and exploitation of the environment to gain wealth?
Wouldn't it be f'in brilliant if we did manage that though ?

I mean - I'm not going to holding my breath waiting for something like that to happen but still... but still its something I think is worth striving for...

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