Thayer, Shumlin face off over future of VY plant

Two men with diametrically opposing views on the continued operation of Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant faced off on Vermont Public Radio's "Vermont Edition" on Friday.

[flat lander]

there goes chummy getting his name out there on a friday radio a saturday print and monday will be tv announcement of his well known plans to jog for governor. Same old pete on another day and issue. The word in putney is the site of the general store was pete wants to put up a statue of him leading the flock

[Get Real People]

Massachusetts used to have a Nuclear Power Plant, Yankee Rowe(condenser upgrade & economy of scale for that upgrade closed it down).
Let's take a look at some per capita comparisons of Energy Consumption Information between Massachusetts and Vermont. http://www.eredux.com/states/state_detail.php...
MA has a per capita carbon score of 42, with the 13 highest resident population. Each MA resident produces approximatly 14 tons of carbon dioxide each year. MA has the total carbon output state rank of #25, MA is the #25th highest carbon dioxide polluting state in the USA.
MA Energy Consumption (Rank = highest in comparison with other US States)
Coal 37th
Petroleum 16th
Natural Gas 13th

[Get Real People]

Vermont Energy Consumption Information:
Vermont has a per capita carbon score of 50, with the 49th highest resident population. Each VT resident produces approximately 11 tons of carbon dioxide each year. VT has a total carbon output state rank of #50, VT is the #50th highest carbon dioxide polluting state in the USA.

Vermont Energy Consumption (Rank = highest in comparison with other US States)
Coal 50th
Petroleum 50th
Natural Gas 50th

[flat lander]

how much methane gas is pete producing with his constant speeches and traveling around the state spewing his manure for us to avoid stepping in

[TNB]

This Shumlin character is an embarrasment. And Vermonters will consider him for Govenor, our leader...OMG!

[flat lander]

He would make a good weather vane with that nose but it always points to money not the wind direction

[Whit]

The spin off is a terrible idea. If the plants are so valuable, then spinning them off wouldn't make sense.

But the notion that keeping the plant operating is only a "short-term solution" is bunk. The world is at or near peak oil - reserves plus new discoveries are not keeping pace with depletion from use. So it's not just a case of replacing current electrical energy generation with wind and sun, but of replacing current oil and gasoline production with electricity.

We need a crash program in wind and solar energy, plus we need to keep our nuclear plants running - and to seriously consider building more. If we can't replace our gasoline-powered cars with electrically-powered ones as gasoline prices spike again within the next few years, life as we know it in Vermont - largely car-dependent - will grind to a halt. We need a plan to double Vermont's electrical capacity within a decade.

Neglecting this necessity is insane. Conservation alone won't do it. Closing Vermont Yankee is a huge step in the wrong direction.

[John Ward]

Whit wrote:

The spin off is a terrible idea. If the plants are so valuable, then spinning them off wouldn't make sense.
But the notion that keeping the plant operating is only a "short-term solution" is bunk. The world is at or near peak oil - reserves plus new discoveries are not keeping pace with depletion from use. So it's not just a case of replacing current electrical energy generation with wind and sun, but of replacing current oil and gasoline production with electricity.
We need a crash program in wind and solar energy, plus we need to keep our nuclear plants running - and to seriously consider building more. If we can't replace our gasoline-powered cars with electrically-powered ones as gasoline prices spike again within the next few years, life as we know it in Vermont - largely car-dependent - will grind to a halt. We need a plan to double Vermont's electrical capacity within a decade.
Neglecting this necessity is insane. Conservation alone won't do it. Closing Vermont Yankee is a huge step in the wrong direction.

That's right. We have a god-given right to be the world's energy-hogs and we will just steamroll right over anyone who would deny us the right to pollute, invade, or pillage wherever and whoever we need. More nukes and drill, baby, drill!!

[Get Real People]

John Ward wrote:

<quoted text>That's right. We have a god-given right to be the world's energy-hogs and we will just steamroll right over anyone who would deny us the right to pollute, invade, or pillage wherever and whoever we need. More nukes and drill, baby, drill!!

Tell you what John, you get to complain about VT's consumption when your own state of MA produces less per capita carbon dioxide a year than the 11 tons per capita that VT is currently producing. Sound fair to you?

[Get Real People]

Vermont Energy Consumption by Sector, Ranked by state, 2003
Commercial Ranking (most by state) 51st
Commercial BTU 31.2
Residential Ranking 48th
residential BTU 47

Massachusetts
Commercial Ranking 13th
Commercial BTU 407.1
Residential Ranking 16th
residential BTU 486.4

Just to add good measure:
VT's current unemployment rate is 6.7% MA unemployment rate is 9.3%

[Joe]

John Ward wrote:

<quoted text>That's right. We have a god-given right to be the world's energy-hogs and we will just steamroll right over anyone who would deny us the right to pollute, invade, or pillage wherever and whoever we need. More nukes and drill, baby, drill!!

You seem to have no problem adding to the situation by buying a computer LOL

[John Ward]

Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
You seem to have no problem adding to the situation by buying a computer LOL

Bought it for work, use it at home too. Laptop. Solar powered house. You're laughing alone.

[Nah]

John Ward wrote:

<quoted text>Bought it for work, use it at home too. Laptop. Solar powered house. You're laughing alone.

No, he's not.

[John Ward]

3.5 ton CO2 per capita emissions at my house. (house, flights, car, food, appliances, entertainment)0% unemployment.Let's get a good, friendly competition going and lower everyones carbon footprint instead of trying to always bash each other.

[Get Real People]

John Ward wrote:

3.5 ton CO2 per capita emissions at my house.(house, flights, car, food, appliances, entertainment)0% unemployment.Let's get a good, friendly competition going and lower everyones carbon footprint instead of trying to always bash each other.

You started it first.

[John Ward]

Get Real People wrote:

<quoted text>You started it first.

Yeah, you are right. I looked back and I was the first one to bash in this post. I am sorry for my contribution to that type of communication. Let's see how we can do with that carbon competition without saddling future generations with more nuclear waste or dumping more cobalt-60 into the CT river or making a reprocessing mess like France has done. I have released too much carbon into the atmosphere in my lifetime so help me make up for that. It could be fun.

[Do not replicate Maine]

Maine Yankee closed several years ago and now we Mainers pay out the was-zoo for electricity. How many businesses would establish a 20 year committment on pricing today? Will this Peter Shumlin guy committ to income and property tax rates for the next 20 years? Why not? Same difference right? I think Vermonters should demand that if this guy runs for any future office demands be placed on him to establish the tax rates for 20 years.

[John Ward]

Do not replicate Maine wrote:

Maine Yankee closed several years ago and now we Mainers pay out the was-zoo for electricity. How many businesses would establish a 20 year committment on pricing today? Will this Peter Shumlin guy committ to income and property tax rates for the next 20 years? Why not? Same difference right? I think Vermonters should demand that if this guy runs for any future office demands be placed on him to establish the tax rates for 20 years.

39 Maine 12.55
40 Vermont 12.79
41 Rhode Island 13.13
42 Maryland 13.57
43 District of Columbia 14.12
44 California 15.29
45 New Hampshire 15.47
46 Massachusetts 15.50
47 Alaska 15.57
48 New Jersey 16.32
49 Connecticut 17.08
50 New York 17.23

[Joe]

John Ward wrote:

<quoted text>Bought it for work, use it at home too. Laptop. Solar powered house. You're laughing alone.

all you are saying is you aren't as bad as the next guy while taking part in the carbon economy.How was the solor system made, with energy and all the stuff got to you because of energy and the people who installed it used energy to get to you an all the tools they used needed energy to be made and transported, you used your laptop made with energy to earn money creating more economic activity which used more energy so you could buy a solar system. Internet service to your house talks energy because of the equipment needed for the system, those big metal boxes in the neighborhood full of internet equipment along with all the equipment back at the phone company take energy to produce and transport and install. The more users online the more equipment needed.

If you lived in a one room camp with minimum solar requirements and walked to some part time job to earn just enough money to buy food, you wouldn't be part of the problem, you would be using no more than needed to just survive.

It's not just personal household consumption of energy, it's peoples lifestyle including their work. The energy sunk into their personal stuff including their house and solar system can't be ignored because it was used along with the energy used in their line of work.

Every dollar of economic activity somebody takes part in at home & work takes energy.

[Mike Mulligan]

Do not replicate Maine wrote:

Maine Yankee closed several years ago and now we Mainers pay out the was-zoo for electricity. How many businesses would establish a 20 year committment on pricing today? Will this Peter Shumlin guy committ to income and property tax rates for the next 20 years? Why not? Same difference right? I think Vermonters should demand that if this guy runs for any future office demands be placed on him to establish the tax rates for 20 years.

Yea, because the Ayn Rand republican nuclear executive ideology wasn’t adequate to design and maintain the Maine Yankee...their incompetence killed Maine Yankee.

The nuclear ideology is the reason why Maine electric rates are so high.