Who do you support for U.S. Senate in...
Why

Cleveland, GA

#19192 Jul 22, 2013
Zimbabwe fine women $5 per episode for screaming during childbirth.

The Duchess, Prince Williams wife, will be fined $1 million per scream.

It's the new method of "Pay according to ability," courtesy of the U.N.


sounds reasonable to me.
Informed Opinion

United States

#19193 Jul 22, 2013
Extremely reading reading about the real world and how it works:

http://nyti.ms/13tc1jY

NYTimes: In Climbing Income Ladder, Location Matters

In Climbing Income Ladder, Location Matters

Last Updated: 12:00 AM ET
ATLANTA –

... Stacey Calvin spends almost as much time commuting to her job — on a bus, two trains and another bus — as she does working part-time at a day care center.

... Her nearly four-hour round-trip stems largely from the economic geography of Atlanta, which is one of America’s most affluent metropolitan areas yet also one of the most physically divided by income.

... This geography appears to play a major role in making Atlanta one of the metropolitan areas where it is most difficult for lower-income households to rise into the middle class and beyond, according to a new study that other researchers are calling the most detailed portrait yet of income mobility in the United States.

The study — based on millions of anonymous earnings records and being released this week by a team of top academic economists — is the first with enough data to compare upward mobility across metropolitan areas..

... Climbing the income ladder occurs less often in the Southeast and industrial Midwest, the data shows, with the odds notably low in Atlanta, Charlotte, Memphis, Raleigh, Indianapolis, Cincinnati and Columbus.

“Where you grow up matters,” said Nathaniel Hendren, a Harvard economist and one of the study’s authors.“There is tremendous variation across the U.S. in the extent to which kids can rise out of poverty.”

.. The gaps can be stark.
On average, fairly poor children in Seattle... do as well financially when they grow up as middle-class children — those who grew up at the 50th percentile — from Atlanta.

... Geography mattered much less for well-off children than for middle-class and poor children, according to the results.

... All else being equal, upward mobility tended to be higher in metropolitan areas where poor families were more dispersed among mixed-income neighborhoods.

.... upward-mobility rates was not primarily because of race. Both white and black residents of Atlanta have low upward mobility, for instance.

... a smaller percentage of people escape childhood poverty in the United States than in other rich countries, including Canada, Australia, France, Germany and Japan.

Among adults who grew up in the bottom half of the income distribution, only one out of 25 had family income of at least $100,000 by age 30.

... economists more confident that the characteristics of different regions — as opposed to something inherent and unchangeable in the local residents — are helping cause the varying mobility rates.
Why

Cleveland, GA

#19194 Jul 22, 2013
"Senator Barbara Boxer’s Own Experts Contradict Obama On Global Warming."

"Expert witnesses called by Sen. Barbara Boxer to testify during Senate Environment and Public Works hearings yesterday contradicted a key assertion made by President Barack Obama on climate change.

Speaking at a Democratic fundraiser less than a month before directing the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to impose costly new restrictions on carbon dioxide emissions, Obama said,“we also know that the climate is warming faster than anybody anticipated five or 10 years ago.”

“I don’t have much patience for people who deny climate change,” Obama added.

However, climate scientists including United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) lead author Hans von Storch report temperatures have remained essentially flat for the past 10 years, and indeed for the past 15 years. Storch told Der Spiegel that 98 percent of IPCC climate models cannot replicate the prolonged pause in global warming, and IPCC may need to revise its computer models to correct their apparent warming bias.

During yesterday’s Environment and Public Works hearings, Sen. David Vitter asked a panel of experts, including experts selected by Boxer,“Can any witnesses say they agree with Obama’s statement that warming has accelerated during the past 10 years?”

For several seconds, nobody said a word. Sitting just a few rows behind the expert witnesses, I thought I might have heard a few crickets chirping, but I couldn’t tell for sure. We’ll give Obama the benefit of the doubt and count the crickets in the “maybe” camp.

After several seconds of deafening silence, global warming activist Heidi Cullen, who formerly served as a meteorologist for the Weather Channel, attempted to change the subject. Cullen said our focus should be on longer time periods rather than the 10-year period mentioned by Obama. When pressed, however, she contradicted Obama’s central assertion and said warming has slowed, not accelerated.

Several minutes later, Sen. Jeff Sessions returned to the topic and sought additional clarity. Sessions recited Obama’s quote claiming accelerating global warming during the past 10 years and asked,“Do any of you support that quote?”

Again, a prolonged and deafening silence ensued. Neither Cullen nor any of the other experts on the panel spoke a word, not even in an attempt to change the subject.

Boxer may have envisioned her high-profile global warming hearings as an opportunity to build momentum for congressional or EPA action to restrict carbon dioxide emissions. Instead, the very global warming activists she called to serve as expert witnesses delivered a crushing blow to President Obama’s central justification for expensive new restrictions on carbon dioxide emissions."

Why

Cleveland, GA

#19195 Jul 22, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
Extremely reading reading about the real world and how it works:

Here's the real world of IO.

The first one.

http://anim-carton.blogspot.com/2012/08/funny...
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#19196 Jul 22, 2013
Bigdave1 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
If you notice I have often brought up Eric Holder and the Fast and Furious Scandal. I always thought it was important to find out just what type of corruption we have and where it is. Nobody, especially liberals, seemed to care.
I never voted for him, and I am proud of it.
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
June 27, 2012: 5:00 AM ET
By Katherine Eban
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06...

...Some call it the "parade of ants"; others the "river of iron." The Mexican government has estimated that 2,000 weapons are smuggled daily from the U.S. into Mexico. The ATF is hobbled in its effort to stop this flow. No federal statute outlaws firearms trafficking within the U.S., so agents must build cases using a patchwork of often toothless laws. For six years, due to Beltway politics, the bureau has gone without permanent leadership, neutered in its fight for funding and authority. The National Rifle Association has so successfully opposed a comprehensive electronic database of gun sales that the ATF's congressional appropriation explicitly prohibits establishing one.

...Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case. Several, including Voth, are speaking out for the first time.

...By January 2010 the agents had identified 20 suspects who had paid some $350,000 in cash for more than 650 guns. According to Rep. Issa's congressional committee, Group VII had enough evidence to make arrests and close the case then.

This was not the view of federal prosecutors. In a meeting on Jan. 5, 2010, Emory Hurley, the assistant U.S. Attorney in Phoenix overseeing the Fast and Furious case, told the agents they lacked probable cause for arrests, according to ATF records. Hurley's judgment reflected accepted policy at the U.S. Attorney's Office in Arizona. "[P]urchasing multiple long guns in Arizona is lawful," Patrick Cunningham, the U.S. Attorney's then–criminal chief in Arizona would later write. "Transferring them to another is lawful and even sale or barter of the guns to another is lawful unless the United States can prove by clear and convincing evidence that the firearm is intended to be used to commit a crime."

It was nearly impossible in Arizona to bring a case against a straw purchaser. The federal prosecutors there did not consider the purchase of a huge volume of guns, or their handoff to a third party, sufficient evidence to seize them. A buyer who certified that the guns were for himself, then handed them off minutes later, hadn't necessarily lied and was free to change his mind. Even if a suspect bought 10 guns that were recovered days later at a Mexican crime scene, this didn't mean the initial purchase had been illegal. To these prosecutors, the pattern proved little. Instead, agents needed to link specific evidence of intent to commit a crime to each gun they wanted to seize.
==========
Not So Fast on Fast and Furious
Fortune investigation shoots holes in scandal narrative
By Peter Hart 08-01-2012
http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/not-so-...

...The Fortune investigation demonstrates that CBS’s reporting of the story is highly misleading. There was, in fact, no plan to purposely allow guns to flow into Mexico. What there was, rather, was a belief that applicable gun laws made it impossible to legally seize the guns. Somehow a story that should have focused on the consequences of NRA-approved gun laws became a scandal about something very different.
Informed Opinion

Naples, FL

#19197 Jul 22, 2013
Bigdave1 wrote:
<quoted text>You forget that 48% of the people pay no income taxes. The rich guy pays huge excise taxes on jewelry, communications and expensive items such as yachts which a poor man can't afford. He also pays huge amounts of property taxes on possibly several expense homes and taxes on his expensive cars. He pays large amounts of taxes on airplane tickets and vacations. He probably donates his puny S.S. checks to a charity as he doesn't need them. He would have to pay taxes on his S.S. checks if he didn't donate them. We haven't even mentioned the income taxes that would be much higher than a poorer mans, that is if the poorer man paid any at all.
Perhaps you would like to see no cap at all put on S.S payouts per year.You would let the rich man pay 6.8% on all his salary, lets just say 2 million dollars a year, and receive a $3,400 a month for the $136,000 he put in every year till he hit 70 years old. He would have put in $5,440,000 into Social Security over a 40 year work period. He would get a $3,400 taxable check each month till he dies. That sounds fair.
Yea.

Unless he's a complete idiot, his company pays for the airline tickets - that's why medical conventions for Ohio doctors are held in Honolulu;

You and I subsidize his yacht by allowing him to deduct the interest as a "second home";

We subsidize his "donations" to charity, which he uses for business connections, by allowing him to deduct those donations;

We also subsidize the costs of that $10 Million Dollar first home by allowing the deductibility of the interest;

We subsidize the income tax to begin with by allowing him to pay lower hedge fund tax rates, not ordinarily income rates, like the rest of us, simply because he is rich.

We subsidize his taxes by allowing the deductibility and tax deferral for retirement accounts such as 410Ks, and the Big Daddy of all, the "Defined Benefit" self-funded pension.

We subsidize by allowing use of the "Romney Rule", or "Bain Capital Rule", where, instead of taking cash as income from your hedge fund, you "borrow" the money and then the "loan" is forgiven at the most opportune time,(for instance when "losses",(real or actuarial), cancel out any potential tax liability.

We subsidize his Mercedes and Lexus by allowing the leases to be considered a business expense;

Whether it's "Welfare" of "Fair" always depends on who gets the money.
Informed Opinion

United States

#19198 Jul 22, 2013
Why wrote:
Zimbabwe fine women $5 per episode for screaming during childbirth.

The Duchess, Prince Williams wife, will be fined $1 million per scream.

It's the new method of "Pay according to ability," courtesy of the U.N.


sounds reasonable to me.
Is there a problem ?

Why don't pregnant women simply go to a better hospital that charges less money and doesn't fine them for screaming ?

You know, one of the hundreds of great, efficient, effective hospitals that the "free market" created in Zimbabwe.

Damn.. You'd think that when it comes to medical care for poor people, the "invisible hand" and the "free market", is letting them down - wait - that can't be - never mind.

Maybe if Ayn Rand hadn't been on that Socialist Medicare she could have helped these people understand how lucky they were not to be burdened by too much regulation, and they'd welcome that fine.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#19199 Jul 22, 2013
Why wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
You are a real nut case!
You've been pushing this BS so long, it's now time to call you on it.
"The enormous undertaking of moving the billions began in the heavily guarded Federal Reserve compound on 100 Orchard Street in East Rutherford, NJ. There, carefully screened employees loaded pallets of cash into tractor-trailers for their journey down I-95 toward Washington, DC. The money came from an account held at the New York Fed called the “Development Fund for Iraq” which was made up of billions of dollars in Saddam Hussein’s financial assets that had been frozen under various US and global sanctions regimes. They weren’t taxpayer dollars, but the US government was responsible for making sure they got where they were going."
NY Fed Won't Say How Much Money Went to Iraq
Published: Tuesday, 21 Jun 2011 | 7:30 PM ET
By: Eamon Javers | CNBC Washington Reporter
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43487056

...The Fed's lack of disclosure is making it difficult for the inspector general to follow the paper trail of billions of dollars that went missing in the chaotic rush to finance the Iraq occupation, and to determine how much of that money was stolen.

The New York Fed will not reveal details, the inspector general said, because the money initially came from an account at the Fed that was held on behalf of the people of Iraq and financed by cash from the Oil-for-Food program. Without authorization from the account holder, the Iraqi government itself, the inspector general's office was told it can't receive information about the account.

The problem is that critics of the Iraqi government believe highly placed officials there are among the people who may have made off with the money in the first place.

And some think that will make it highly unlikely the Iraqis will sign off on revealing the total dollar amount.
==========
NY Fed's $40 Billion Iraqi Money Trail
Published: Tuesday, 25 Oct 2011 | 2:25 PM ET
By: Eamon Javers | CNBC Washington Reporter

...Beginning in the very earliest days of the war in Iraq, the New York Federal Reserve shipped billions of dollars in physical cash to Baghdad to pay for the reopening of the government and restoration of basic services.

...By one account, the New York Fed shipped about $40 billion in cash between 2003 and 2008. In just the first two years, the shipments included more than 281 million individual bills weighing a total of 363 tons. But soon after the money arrived in the chaos of war-torn Baghdad, the paper trail documenting who controlled it all began to go cold.

Since then, investigators have spent years trying to trace what happened to the enormous amount of money shipped in the frantic days of the occupation of Iraq. Although there have been hundreds of pages of reports, Congressional hearings, and inquiries from Washington to Baghdad, no one in Congress, a special inspector general’s office, the Department of Defense or the Iraqi government itself can say with certainty what exactly happened to all of that money.

...That’s because the government of Iraq continues to pour the proceeds of its newly refurbished oil industry into its accounts at the Fed in New York. In April, the Iraqi government informed the UN security council that it was going to open a new account at the Fed to replace the Development Fund for Iraq account that had been established years earlier. Baghdad will continue to operate a second account, called the “Oil Proceeds Receipts Account” that serves as a cash reserve for the Iraqi Central Bank, supporting the Iraqi currency.
Informed Opinion

Naples, FL

#19200 Jul 22, 2013
Why wrote:
<quoted text>Here's the real world of IO.

The first one.

http://anim-carton.blogspot.com/2012/08/funny...
I actually love comics and cartoons - keep 'em coming.

Thanks
off topic

Odum, GA

#19201 Jul 22, 2013
General Robert E Lee wrote:
<quoted text>
Now, why would you say that I am a moron?
I have read you posts, that's the proof.

Off topic but this whole tread is a joke. I am sure you are also a supporter of that traitor hiding in Russia. You know the one helping the enemies of American.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21134540/vp=5253926...
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#19202 Jul 22, 2013
Why wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
EBT cards have become a black market commodity in the hispanic and black communities.
How could anyone ever associate the word BIGOT or RACIST with your body of postings...

103 arrest warrants issued after undercover operation for EBT card fraud
Posted: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:12 pm | Updated: 11:29 pm, Tue Jun 18, 2013.
http://www.mysuncoast.com/news/manatee_newsro...
Informed Opinion

Naples, FL

#19203 Jul 22, 2013
Detroit has launched an ingenious plan to obtain Right Wing Wacko support for financial aid from the U.S. government -

they intend to force every resident to convert to the Muslim religion.

As has been proven beyond any doubt, Right Wingers love to spend American Taxpayers' money and American blood,

if the money is spent, and the blood is shed, to aid Arab Muslims.

The National Interest-

... Most Americans would probably be surprised, for instance, to learn that over the past two decades their country has, according to Paul Wolfowitz, fought “at least seven wars of Muslim liberation”(in Kuwait, Northern Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya).

Unfortunately, such expenditures of blood and treasure have gained us precious little gratitude or appreciation.

How could they possibly object to spending American money on American Muslims if they love so much spending Trillions on Arab Muslims.

The Detroit authorities acknowledge that some of the city must be seen being blown up on TV, as the support seems linked to Americans love of violence, but they readily admit that many parts of that American city are ready to be demolished anyway.
Lily

United States

#19204 Jul 22, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
Detroit has launched an ingenious plan to obtain Right Wing Wacko support for financial aid from the U.S. government -
they intend to force every resident to convert to the Muslim religion.
As has been proven beyond any doubt, Right Wingers love to spend American Taxpayers' money and American blood,
if the money is spent, and the blood is shed, to aid Arab Muslims.
The National Interest-
... Most Americans would probably be surprised, for instance, to learn that over the past two decades their country has, according to Paul Wolfowitz, fought “at least seven wars of Muslim liberation”(in Kuwait, Northern Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya).
Unfortunately, such expenditures of blood and treasure have gained us precious little gratitude or appreciation.
How could they possibly object to spending American money on American Muslims if they love so much spending Trillions on Arab Muslims.
The Detroit authorities acknowledge that some of the city must be seen being blown up on TV, as the support seems linked to Americans love of violence, but they readily admit that many parts of that American city are ready to be demolished anyway.
I used to think you were just weird. Now, I think you are a very sick and unstable person. You have crossed the line between trying to be funny and making a total ass out of yourself. While I may seem unkind in my remarks, I do believe you should try and find a new hobby and divest yourself of your Topix obsession.

Good luck.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#19205 Jul 22, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
June 27, 2012: 5:00 AM ET
By Katherine Eban
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06...
(deleted for space)
==========
Not So Fast on Fast and Furious
Fortune investigation shoots holes in scandal narrative
By Peter Hart 08-01-2012
http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/not-so-...
...The Fortune investigation demonstrates that CBS’s reporting of the story is highly misleading. There was, in fact, no plan to purposely allow guns to flow into Mexico. What there was, rather, was a belief that applicable gun laws made it impossible to legally seize the guns. Somehow a story that should have focused on the consequences of NRA-approved gun laws became a scandal about something very different.
You might want to try again.

"As you are likely aware, the Justice Department Inspector General has now issued his exhaustive report about Operation Fast and Furious (the “IG Report”). Given its findings, it is clear that Ms. Eban’s purported finding of “the truth” was far from it, and in fact is demonstrably false in many respects. A retraction is in order to correct the record.
" http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/201...
======

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/201...
======

"Eban Claims Rebutted by Fast and Furious Facts"

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.c...

“Liberals are closet raaacists!”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#19206 Jul 22, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
Detroit has launched an ingenious plan to obtain Right Wing Wacko support for financial aid from the U.S. government -
they intend to force every resident to convert to the Muslim religion.
As has been proven beyond any doubt, Right Wingers love to spend American Taxpayers' money and American blood,
if the money is spent, and the blood is shed, to aid Arab Muslims.
The National Interest-
... Most Americans would probably be surprised, for instance, to learn that over the past two decades their country has, according to Paul Wolfowitz, fought “at least seven wars of Muslim liberation”(in Kuwait, Northern Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya).
Unfortunately, such expenditures of blood and treasure have gained us precious little gratitude or appreciation.
How could they possibly object to spending American money on American Muslims if they love so much spending Trillions on Arab Muslims.
The Detroit authorities acknowledge that some of the city must be seen being blown up on TV, as the support seems linked to Americans love of violence, but they readily admit that many parts of that American city are ready to be demolished anyway.
Why don't you talk about the Kennedy/Johnson war that cost over 50,000 lives?
How about how high union labor costs have driven jobs OUT of the U.S.? You don't have the right to criticize anything about this country considering you and the rest of your thug brotherhood is contributing to the destruction of it.
You criticize the "haves" while at the same time BRAGGING about what all YOU have. Anyone who feels the need to brag as you do, comes across as having no class whatsoever.
Now carry on with your OBSESSIVENESS. Perhps you are partaking WAY too much of your Maker's Mark.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#19207 Jul 22, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
You might want to try again.
"As you are likely aware, the Justice Department Inspector General has now issued his exhaustive report about Operation Fast and Furious (the “IG Report”). Given its findings, it is clear that Ms. Eban’s purported finding of “the truth” was far from it, and in fact is demonstrably false in many respects. A retraction is in order to correct the record.
" http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/201...
======
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/201...
======
"Eban Claims Rebutted by Fast and Furious Facts"
http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.c...
Your fist link deals with the request that Fortune retract its article, here is the opening paragraph...

Fast and Furious whistleblower and ATF Special Agent John Dodson has sent a letter through his attorney Robert Driscoll to Fortune Magazine today, asking the outlet to retract the June 2012 story "The Truth About Fast and Furious" by Katherine Eban....
.....
As you can plainly see the article is still available online, the request was ignored, wonder why, perhaps Fortune is standing behind the author.
==========
October 16, 2012, 11:02 am 18 Comments
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/16...

...The dispute generated by the long-running investigation of the gun operation by the House Committee on Government Operations and Oversight, led by Representative Darrell Issa, Republican of California, culminated last month in an exhaustive report by the Justice Department’s independent inspector general, which scathingly criticized federal officials for their handling of the fiasco but essentially exonerated Mr. Holder.
==========
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
June 27, 2012: 5:00 AM ET
By Katherine Eban
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06...

...In their Jan. 5 meeting, Hurley suggested another way to make a case: Voth's team could wiretap the phone of a suspected recruiter and capture proof of him directing straw purchasers to buy guns. This would establish sufficient proof to arrest both the leaders and the followers.

On Jan. 8, 2010, Voth and his supervisors drafted a briefing paper in which they explained Hurley's view that "there was minimal evidence at this time to support any type of prosecution." The paper elaborated, "Currently our strategy is to allow the transfer of firearms to continue to take place, albeit at a much slower pace, in order to further the investigation and allow for the identification of additional co-conspirators."

Rep. Issa's committee has flagged this document as proof that the agents chose to walk guns. But prosecutors had determined, Voth says, that the "transfer of firearms" was legal. Agents had no choice but to keep investigating and start a wiretap as quickly as possible to gather evidence of criminal intent.

Ten days after the meeting with Hurley, a Saturday, Jaime Avila, a transient, admitted methamphetamine user, bought three WASR-10 rifles at the Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Ariz. The next day, a helpful Lone Wolf employee faxed Avila's purchase form to ATF to flag the suspicious activity. It was the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday weekend, so the agents didn't receive the fax until Tuesday, according to a contemporaneous case report. By that time, the legally purchased guns had been gone for three days. The agents had never seen the weapons and had no chance to seize them. But they entered the serial numbers into their gun database. Two of these were later recovered at Brian Terry's murder scene.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#19208 Jul 22, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
You might want to try again.
"As you are likely aware, the Justice Department Inspector General has now issued his exhaustive report about Operation Fast and Furious (the “IG Report”). Given its findings, it is clear that Ms. Eban’s purported finding of “the truth” was far from it, and in fact is demonstrably false in many respects. A retraction is in order to correct the record.
" http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/201...
======
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/201...
======
"Eban Claims Rebutted by Fast and Furious Facts"
http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.c...
From your fist link, here is the opening paragraph...

Fast and Furious whistleblower and ATF Special Agent John Dodson has sent a letter through his attorney Robert Driscoll to Fortune Magazine today, asking the outlet to retract the June 2012 story "The Truth About Fast and Furious" by Katherine Eban....
.....
As you can plainly see the article is still available online, the request was ignored, wonder why, perhaps Fortune is standing behind the author.
==========
October 16, 2012, 11:02 am 18 Comments
Justice Department Seeks to Dismiss Lawsuit Over Operation Fast and Furious
By JOHN H. CUSHMAN JR.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/16...

...The dispute generated by the long-running investigation of the gun operation by the House Committee on Government Operations and Oversight, led by Representative Darrell Issa, Republican of California, culminated last month in an exhaustive report by the Justice Department’s independent inspector general, which scathingly criticized federal officials for their handling of the fiasco but essentially exonerated Mr. Holder.
==========
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
June 27, 2012: 5:00 AM ET
By Katherine Eban
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06...

...In their Jan. 5 meeting, Hurley suggested another way to make a case: Voth's team could wiretap the phone of a suspected recruiter and capture proof of him directing straw purchasers to buy guns. This would establish sufficient proof to arrest both the leaders and the followers.

On Jan. 8, 2010, Voth and his supervisors drafted a briefing paper in which they explained Hurley's view that "there was minimal evidence at this time to support any type of prosecution." The paper elaborated, "Currently our strategy is to allow the transfer of firearms to continue to take place, albeit at a much slower pace, in order to further the investigation and allow for the identification of additional co-conspirators."

Rep. Issa's committee has flagged this document as proof that the agents chose to walk guns. But prosecutors had determined, Voth says, that the "transfer of firearms" was legal. Agents had no choice but to keep investigating and start a wiretap as quickly as possible to gather evidence of criminal intent.

Ten days after the meeting with Hurley, a Saturday, Jaime Avila, a transient, admitted methamphetamine user, bought three WASR-10 rifles at the Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Ariz. The next day, a helpful Lone Wolf employee faxed Avila's purchase form to ATF to flag the suspicious activity. It was the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday weekend, so the agents didn't receive the fax until Tuesday, according to a contemporaneous case report. By that time, the legally purchased guns had been gone for three days. The agents had never seen the weapons and had no chance to seize them. But they entered the serial numbers into their gun database. Two of these were later recovered at Brian Terry's murder scene.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#19209 Jul 22, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
You might want to try again.
Sure, I noticed that you didn't bother to address this central issue at all.

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
June 27, 2012: 5:00 AM ET
By Katherine Eban
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06...

...By January 2010 the agents had identified 20 suspects who had paid some $350,000 in cash for more than 650 guns. According to Rep. Issa's congressional committee, Group VII had enough evidence to make arrests and close the case then.

This was not the view of federal prosecutors. In a meeting on Jan. 5, 2010, Emory Hurley, the assistant U.S. Attorney in Phoenix overseeing the Fast and Furious case, told the agents they lacked probable cause for arrests, according to ATF records. Hurley's judgment reflected accepted policy at the U.S. Attorney's Office in Arizona. "[P]urchasing multiple long guns in Arizona is lawful," Patrick Cunningham, the U.S. Attorney's then–criminal chief in Arizona would later write. "Transferring them to another is lawful and even sale or barter of the guns to another is lawful unless the United States can prove by clear and convincing evidence that the firearm is intended to be used to commit a crime."

It was nearly impossible in Arizona to bring a case against a straw purchaser. The federal prosecutors there did not consider the purchase of a huge volume of guns, or their handoff to a third party, sufficient evidence to seize them. A buyer who certified that the guns were for himself, then handed them off minutes later, hadn't necessarily lied and was free to change his mind. Even if a suspect bought 10 guns that were recovered days later at a Mexican crime scene, this didn't mean the initial purchase had been illegal. To these prosecutors, the pattern proved little. Instead, agents needed to link specific evidence of intent to commit a crime to each gun they wanted to seize.

Since: Jul 12

Douglasville, GA

#19210 Jul 22, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
This has nothing to do with anything, but given the "bless your hearts" going on here lately, some might find this entertaining. And considering that I couldn't find anything on the radio except talk of the Trayvon Martin case driving home today, I just don't have the energy for anything heavy right now. Enjoy. Pardon the mild profanity, please.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/euzjO51pQvU...
Hilarious, and besides that it is just plain funny!

Since: Jul 12

Douglasville, GA

#19211 Jul 22, 2013
OMTE wrote:
<quoted text>I think he isn't interested in rebuilding. I think he wants to destroy America. That's just me though.
NO, That's just not you.

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