Is Temple Baptist Church a true place of Christianity?

[concerned citizen]

hi

Christianity wrote:

To Every True Christian I know,
Please Help Me!
As most of you know Jimmy is home on his 15 day leave from Iraq. This Sunday morning he and his friend, Jason a Marine decided to attend the church where they went to private school and grew up together. They wanted to see old friends, teachers and other fellow "Christian's" they have known most of their lives. As they made they way into the "Church" the pastor pulled them aside and ask them to leave. Some one had seen them the day before at a sports bar drinking a beer. The pastor "David Pittman" told them they could not attend the service because the church members did not want them there. They were afraid that "Jimmy and Jason who are two grown men who chose to attend Church on Sunday Morning without any influence from anyone" Were there to and I Quote " recruit other young people from the church to indulge in wrong doings"!!!!!! No I'm not joking!!!! At this point Jimmy and Jason both in uniform where escorted out of the Church by several "Deacons"
IS THIS WHAT JESUS WOULD DO?
WOULD HE STAND BESIDE THE PASTOR?
Our son is home from his out post where he goes out on missions under enemy fire every week to fight for our right of freedom of religion. The very people he is fighting for have shunned him. And they did it using Christianity as their reasoning!!!!!!!!!!
I am asking all of you to please feel free to express you thought on this to whom you feel needs to hear it! As well as forward to any friends or family members you feel may have something to say.
I have PRAYED AND PRAYED FOR GOD TO HELP ME WITH SELF CONTROL!! I ask that you pray for me this the hardest test of self control and anger management that God has ever given me!
Here is the Address and Emails for this "Christian Church"?
Temple Baptist Church
1545 Drainsville Rd
Herndon, VA 20170

[Charles Lively]

Hello,

I feel that the pastor was correct for the following reasons found in the Bible:

1. The Church belongs to Jesus and is to be kept holy and pure. The Church is described as Jesus' bride.
Ephesians Chapter 5

2. Deacons and Church leaders should never show favortism, regardless of the individuals.
James 2:1-4

3. Those belonging to the Church are forbidden from getting drunk.
Ephesians 5:18

4. The Church is advised to abstain from alcohol. Proverbs 31:1-7

Would Jesus have done this???

In John 2:13-17, we see how Jesus became very upset that sin had entered into His father's house and that he drove out the money changers whom He considered were disgracing it and bringing the sin into it. I believe this indicates Jesus' response to such situations.

I hope this helps and I am sorry.

Sincerely,

Chuck Lively

[Charles Lively]

Hello,

In 1994, I came to know Pastor David Pittman as a sinner greatly suffering. I explained to him that I was genuinely trying to leave my sinful lifestyle behind, but was having difficulty.
Pastor Pittman welcomed me with open arms (literally). He encouraged me to come to the church as much as I could. Pastor Pittman gave me generous amounts of his own personal time, day or night. The pastor helped me find strength from the Bible, giving me many verses to read regarding my own weaknesses. The pastor prayed with me individually and helped me overcome the sins that I had been struggling with.
My family had not yet met him, but openly stated how God was clearly working through him to help me become a better Christian.
When I ill and needed special seating to come to the church, even though I was not yet a member, Pastor Pittman took great care to make arrangements so that I could physically feel comfortable. I have never had a pastor of any church that I have attended invest that much time helping me in my own personal spiritual walk. Pastor Pittman was caring for me personally and he was genuinely interested in my salvation and personal walk with God. It was obvious to me that the salvation, sanctity and purity of my soul was his #1 concern for me. While the pastor would quite often joke about all things sports related or his singing voice or lack therein, he was completely serious when it came to souls, Heaven, Hell and sin. He didn’t just talk the talk, but he walked it. It was very clear to all the he viewed going to Heaven and avoiding Hell with an absolute seriousness. This stemmed from the fact that he believed in God’s Word completely. This is what drew me to seek spiritual help and advice from him. Pastor Pittman’s advice (straight out of the Bible!) helped me and has never left me.

I seriously doubt that I would have been welcomed with such open arms had I went to the church with false pretences. Pastor Pittman would not tolerate anyone intentionally or otherwise using the church as a network for any sinful practices. Pastor Pittman was always crystal clear about that. He made sure I knew it when I had first met him and he also mentioned it many times in his sermons. He has always guarded his flock as he is duty bound, something any soldier should easily be able to relate to.

Pastor Pittman took me in as a repentant sinner. He frequently asked the members to sit forward in order to have room for guests to come in and sit in the back without feeling uncomfortable (it was usually a pretty packed service). He often reminded us to be friendly to people we didn’t know (this was needed because one often just greeting and conversing with members one already knows). Pastor Pittman wanted us all to ensure that any and all visitors were welcomed. This is the Pastor David Pittman I’ve known.

I have long since moved to Maryland. I now have my own family that I’m responsible for keeping safe, be it safe car seats or avoiding unsafe friendships. I pray that I can just do half as good for my “flock” as Pastor Pittman did for all of his.

Chuck Lively

[Will]

First, before I say anything, I want to say that as a former member of Temple Baptist I can say that Pastor Pittman is an amazing Christian and human being. I have nothing but respect for the man. He truly walks the walk per se.

Second, I am a friend of both Jimmy and Jason and have heard what happened from their own mouths. Maybe they did not tell me everything that went down, but they explained to me in their own words what took place and I do believe Pastor Pittman made an error in his judgment.

So, with that being said, and after reading all the others posts, I would like to clarify a few things.

1. First, drinking and getting drunk are two different things. There is nothing wrong with a Christian having a beer at a bar. Nowhere in the Bible does it say drinking is a sin. It says getting drunk is a sin.

2. Church is a place for the sick, not the healthy. It does no good kicking someone out of church if they need help. Who did Jesus hangout with? Prostitutes and tax collectors among others. If they were not causing a spectacle or a scene, then yes, kick them out because they are disrupting the service. But that was not the case.

3. Pastor Pittman “heard” they were drinking from a second hand source. He did not actually see them. Maybe the second hand source is someone whose word he trusts…fine. Then the proper way to handle the situation would be to confront the young adults in a private setting and ask them, man to man, what happened. That is how adults do things. Face to face honesty. No jumping to conclusions and making decisions based on assumptions.

4. Hypothetically, let’s say they were drunk at the bar that night. That is a sin. No argument there. But what makes that sin worse than any other sin? Every person sins. Why does that sin result in their removal from church and other sins not? Are not all sins equal?

5. Speaking as someone who has attended Temple for many years, I could tell you numerous stories of some of the harsh judgments that have been passed on people there. There are many great Christians there, but there are also many ignorant and judgmental Christians as well. Anyone who has been around Temple for a while will confirm this to be true. I’m sure that is that case at any church…but I have especially seen this at Temple.

[Will]

6. Can you say “irony”? I think it is disgraceful how many on this board are jumping to conclusions. You all need to read over what you write and check your diction. So far I have read:

They were creating “A network for sinful practices”

“boozing it up, then oh ...let's go to church and see our buddies.”

“a place where you should come with the attitude of worshipping God...not going out drinking and then come show all your friends how cool you are”

“When you have anyone come to any church with the sole purpose of showing off their life-style and sin”

“would you want your kids friends coming into your home promoting that drinking is cool.”
younger kids (who look up to these guys) and see them as a kinda' rebel role model.”

“These guys didnt come to church to worship God, they came for the simple fact of hanging out and showing "see, its okay to live wicked, nothing bad happened yet its soooo much fun guys, dont listen to the pastor."”

How do you any of you know what their intentions and attitudes were? How does being seen at a bar having a drink transform into “boozing it up”? Who said they were showing off and flaunting their lifestyle? Who said they were promoting that drinking is cool and that it is OK to be wicked (most people there don’t even know what they do outside of Church just like most people don’t know what you do when you are alone)?

None of you know the answers to these questions because none of you honestly have them. You did just what Pastor Pittman did, jumped to conclusions. They were not walking around telling people it’s OK to get drunk or even promoting drinking at all. Do divorced people go to church promoting divorce? Does someone with a child out of wedlock go to church promoting premarital sex? No, of course not.

They showed up for church, in uniform because they are proud of their service, with the intention of seeing friends and listening to the sermon peacefully. A marine in uniform is a bad role model? You should feel lucky and honored to have a son or daughter who would volunteer their life for the betterment of their country.

Anyway, at the end of the day, I think we need to look at the big picture. Are they sinners? Yes. Are they “bad” people trying to corrupt others? Absolutely not. These are human beings. These are adults. These are marines. These are souls. If they can’t be in church, then where can they go?

Will

[Archangel]

After reading all these posts, I have come to the conclusion that the members of Temple must truly be weak in their faith if they believe that a couple of guys in uniform could destroy the influence that a pastor has over them by their mere appearance. When I get my wings and God judges me as perfect, maybe I will stop by this place and see how my equals are doing.

[christian]

This church is really a great place to learn about God. I have been attending this place for a long time. So you should come to this church. Its a school,too.

[Brad]

I was a member of this church for many, many years so I will try to respond as politely as I can without directly attacking individuals.

All here would do well to realize that you've all been jumping to conclusions with no basis in fact. Almost all of those responding in support of the church have immediately jumped to the conclusion that these gentlemen were drunk, disorderly, recruiting for sinful purposes or some other hogwash nonsense. At best, the treatment of these gentlemen was based on second hand knowledge and/or rumor. That I will address later.

As a former member of Temple and one who knows all of the folks mentioned I'm much more inclined to trust Jason and Jimmy.

Let me be clear, Pastor Pittman has a devotion to God that is unparalleled as I have seen so far. However, Temple and his direction of it are also quite clear. They have absolutely NO TOLERANCE for drinking or any other "sin" that they don't agree with.

If these two men had only HALF of a beer, they would have been ostracized in the same manner...as we as members have all seen worse for lesser "offenses". Even the teens in the youth group were "encouraged"(you can read into that however you wish) to not drink ROOT BEER, because the bottle LOOKED similar to a beer bottle and they don't want even a slight appearance of wrong-doing. This is just to give you an idea of the extremity these folks will go and how much IMAGE rather than the Holy Spirit influences them.

Although, given their tendency towards hypocrisy I wonder, who can cast the first stone? So lets go with the assumption some have made and say these two were drunk the night before. Is the sin of being drunk any less sinful than say...Gluttony, blasphemy, lying, cheating, etc...? I would also like to know, since someone ran home and taddled to Pastor Pittman;what was this taddle-tail doing in said sports bar? And were they escorted out of the services the following morning as well or were they greeted with open arms?

This church has pushed many away over the years for much less offenses and the church for many years was riddled with infighting and backstabbing. I can only hope for the current members that such discourse is a thing of the past, although I reserve my doubts. I left that church years ago for my own well being and have never looked back. I got tired of listening to all the accusations of good folks who had done nothing wrong, including my own family.

A question or two, are we all not sinners? How exactly do you expect to reach sinners, if every time they enter your church, you throw them out for the same sins many of the church are guilty of on a daily basis? For those commenting from afar who have never been to this church or only visit a few times a year, think before you respond because you don't know the church, nor the people in it. Visiting doesn't count. They do a real bang-up job of putting on a "face" for visitors especially if they know they're coming ahead of time.

[Ex-Pharacie]

The judgmental attitudes expressed in these posts are exactly what it wrong with this church and Fundamentalism in general. It creates critical Christians looking down in condemnation on other Christians who may not have the same convictions they do.
Claiming they had a beer has resulted in comments like "they were pounding them down all night", "They were flaunting their sin in the face of others", "Their family is spoiled" all in the name of Godly Christians.
Tell me where is the compassion. I didn't see one comment that people are praying for them. Instead they are ridiculed.
Pharacies?
The comment about wine being different then than now is simply ignorance. If that is true then the story of Jesus turning water into wine would not make sense. It was custom for the better wine to be served first and the lesser wine last because people would be intoxicated and not know the difference. Again, just more fundamental molding of the scriptures to fit their eye service and convictions. Moderation does not mean elimination.
Ephesians 5:18 (King James Version) And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Be not drunk does not mean it is forbidden.

[Larry]

Ex-Pharacie wrote:

The judgmental attitudes expressed in these posts are exactly what it wrong with this church and Fundamentalism in general. It creates critical Christians looking down in condemnation on other Christians who may not have the same convictions they do.
Claiming they had a beer has resulted in comments like "they were pounding them down all night", "They were flaunting their sin in the face of others", "Their family is spoiled" all in the name of Godly Christians.
Tell me where is the compassion. I didn't see one comment that people are praying for them. Instead they are ridiculed.
Pharacies?
The comment about wine being different then than now is simply ignorance. If that is true then the story of Jesus turning water into wine would not make sense. It was custom for the better wine to be served first and the lesser wine last because people would be intoxicated and not know the difference. Again, just more fundamental molding of the scriptures to fit their eye service and convictions. Moderation does not mean elimination.
Ephesians 5:18 (King James Version) And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Be not drunk does not mean it is forbidden.

You are what is wrong with Christianity my friend, there are too many gutless so called Christians who won't take a stand. As much as it is commanded not to be drunk with wine it is equally commanded to be filled with the spirit. You tell me, how can you be filled with the spirit and a Bud light at the same time...IMPOSSIBLE.

It's having a testimony, its about showing the world you are different, thats why the Bible says...come out from among them and be ye separate....it does not mean anyone is trying to be better than anyone else, its about living a separated Christian life that pleases God.

I can guarantee you this Pastor prays for these young people to get their hearts right with God.

Study the whole wind thing, you will see the wine in that time was not intoxicating wine.

[Ex-Pharacie]

Again, you prove my point. You know nothing about me and yet you make a condemning statement that I am what's wrong with Christianity. I absolutely take a stand for what is right and stand against what is wrong. What I have a problem with is when peoples personal convictions are taught as scripture. Going to the movies is a good example. Why is it okay to watch them at home in the privacy of your own home but not at the theater. That is eye service.

Please explain to me the logic of the water to wine if it was not intoxicating. Why did people serve the best wine first?

Personallly I don't agree with drinking as it serves no purpose but that is my conviction. Drinking to excess is wrong. But I can not say that someone drinking one beer is commuting a sin.

It has been show hoe bad a Dr Pepper or coke is for your body. Is that a sin?

[Charles Lively]

Will wrote:

6. Can you say “irony”? I think it is disgraceful how many on this board are jumping to conclusions. You all need to read over what you write and check your diction. So far I have read:
They were creating “A network for sinful practices”
“boozing it up, then oh ...let's go to church and see our buddies.”
“a place where you should come with the attitude of worshipping God...not going out drinking and then come show all your friends how cool you are”
“When you have anyone come to any church with the sole purpose of showing off their life-style and sin”
“would you want your kids friends coming into your home promoting that drinking is cool.”
younger kids (who look up to these guys) and see them as a kinda' rebel role model.”
“These guys didnt come to church to worship God, they came for the simple fact of hanging out and showing "see, its okay to live wicked, nothing bad happened yet its soooo much fun guys, dont listen to the pastor."”
How do you any of you know what their intentions and attitudes were? How does being seen at a bar having a drink transform into “boozing it up”? Who said they were showing off and flaunting their lifestyle? Who said they were promoting that drinking is cool and that it is OK to be wicked (most people there don’t even know what they do outside of Church just like most people don’t know what you do when you are alone)?
None of you know the answers to these questions because none of you honestly have them. You did just what Pastor Pittman did, jumped to conclusions. They were not walking around telling people it’s OK to get drunk or even promoting drinking at all. Do divorced people go to church promoting divorce? Does someone with a child out of wedlock go to church promoting premarital sex? No, of course not.
They showed up for church, in uniform because they are proud of their service, with the intention of seeing friends and listening to the sermon peacefully. A marine in uniform is a bad role model? You should feel lucky and honored to have a son or daughter who would volunteer their life for the betterment of their country.
Anyway, at the end of the day, I think we need to look at the big picture. Are they sinners? Yes. Are they “bad” people trying to corrupt others? Absolutely not. These are human beings. These are adults. These are marines. These are souls. If they can’t be in church, then where can they go?
Will

Hi Will,

You incorrectly quote that I said "They were creating 'A network for sinful practices'".

I never stated that. If you reread my post, you will see that I was telling my own story about things that the pastor told me, personally, that he would not tolerate. I was explaining my own experience and impressions with the hope that they might relate to the pastor's responses in this instance.

Hope this helps,

Chuck Lively

[Charles Lively]

Larry wrote:

<quoted text>
You are what is wrong with Christianity my friend, there are too many gutless so called Christians who won't take a stand. As much as it is commanded not to be drunk with wine it is equally commanded to be filled with the spirit. You tell me, how can you be filled with the spirit and a Bud light at the same time...IMPOSSIBLE.
It's having a testimony, its about showing the world you are different, thats why the Bible says...come out from among them and be ye separate....it does not mean anyone is trying to be better than anyone else, its about living a separated Christian life that pleases God.
I can guarantee you this Pastor prays for these young people to get their hearts right with God.
Study the whole wind thing, you will see the wine in that time was not intoxicating wine.

Hi Larry,

In regards to discussion over wine of Biblical days, I hope this link may help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_the_B...

Sincerely,

Chuck Lively

[Dwaine]

I use to attend this church in the early 90's, shortly after Dave Pittman took over. I witnessed Pastor Dave, and three of his deacons inform two men that their hair was too long! They were told to cut it shorter or stop attending service there. It was obvious that they were fanatics and did not understand what Christanity and communion was about. I let the church. No surprise that a decade and a half later they have not changed!

[Charles Lively]

Hello,

I think it would give more credibility, to both supporters and detractors of this church, if the people who comment would use their real names, rather than pseudonyms that does not force one to stand by their comments.

It would not endanger anyones online security nor their privacy, save being forced to stand by what you say.

Jesus stood by what he said, I think we should do the same.

Chuck Lively