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Ray Jones

West Leyden, NY

#1 Aug 14, 2008
To all,
I have contemplated writing this letter for some time, but feel now is appropriate. We have been doing a modified system status in Herkimer County for 2 years with pretty good success. We have been leaders in trying to o the best for the patient and getting an ambulance rolling within 3 minutes. The problem that I have is that the weekends in Herkimer have become a problem. I have been accused of not being able to cover calls and that I should not to transports because it takes ambulances away from the area. Rural/Metro, under my direction, has always tried to cover the needs of the community without stepping on the volunteers toes. It is very apparent that on Saturday and especially Sunday that MOVAC is not playing well or even at all depending on the time off day. I have spoke with the local fire chiefs from the villages and all agree that there is a major problem. It puts a great burden on them as well as us. Rural/Metro is not at this point in time in a position to cover our own calls and all of someone else's. We can position Rural/Metro to cover these calls if we were first due in and not trying to play second fiddle. This could be budgeted for. I know that this will cause world war 3, but I feel that something needs to be done. Many attempts have been made to contact Ted Hilts with no success. I have left messages at the station and on his cell phone. With all the politics and accusations aside, by the definition from the NYSDOH, I can prove a need for Rural/Metro to be called first especially on the weekends. I have even gone as far as to offer the Herkimer Fire Department a dedicated ambulance to respond with them 24/7 at no charge to the village. I guess that shopping for drivers is better than having a crew ready to go. Rural/Metro has played nice for the past 3 years hoping that the problems would fix themselves. People have even been terminated from Rural/Metro for not complying to the standards set up 2 years ago. I would like to set down with everyone and discuss this at length. I am also prepared to take one on the chin for the territory and call thieving commercial agencies that we are. No matter what happens Rural/Metro will always be the bad guy. I can change what happened in the past, but would like to be part of the change for the future and better patient care. Your thoughts and comments please.
Raymond A Jones Jr.
Area Manager
scanner fan

Liverpool, NY

#2 Aug 14, 2008
didnt they s h i t can everybody? I heard they fired everybody. they must have because Ive heard movac doing lots of calls for them lately. thougtht all they did was nursing home transport anyway.

Rochester, NY

#3 Aug 14, 2008
Although I doubt Uncle Ray posted the above, I cannot resist the urge to post and thus I must pop my topix cherry. I think it is clear that this letter is an act of desperation similar to a little kid in the corner whining for attention. For awhile Movac did in fact appear to drop the ball, but where was RMís letters of complaints then?? Non-Existent!! Uncle Ray and RM would like you to believe that they have the best interests of the community as their first priority, but this is simply not the case. Issue number one for RM is simply $$. If it wasnít the case, wouldnít RM be willing to sacrifice transports for emergency callsÖ This idea seems logical, but definitely not from a financial stand point.
RMís livelihood is now being threatened and thus they must create the illusion of problems, so they can come riding in on a white and yellow unicorn, with a million miles on it, to save the day. Movac is now a real threat to the existence of RM and they have done so by simply providing quality care in a timely manner.
This isnít a slam on RM. RM has some reputable and dignified employees. All I am trying to say is donít believe the hype. RM is a commercial agency that is being severely squeezed. I think we all should feel slightly sorry for them.
ďI am also prepared to take one on the chin for the territory and call thieving commercial agencies that we are.Ēó Ray Jones
Thatís awesome lol!!
I.P. Freely
Half Empty

Clinton, NY

#4 Aug 14, 2008
Why even start this post, I am also positive Ray Jones didn't post his this letter here. So that means that someone from the short list of people who had the letter did, or passed it off to someone else to do their dirty work.

This shows that someone from the EMS field is trying to envoke controvery, when they should be more concerned with improving patient care.

To all EMS Providers, keep up the good work.

To the poster of the letter, find another profession.
an ambulance user

Fishers, NY

#5 Aug 14, 2008
did that letter not deal exclusively with patient care, someone that suffered a CVA waiting for an ambulance from utica is not a patient care issue ?....are you a complete idiot ?
Half Empty wrote:
Why even start this post, I am also positive Ray Jones didn't post his this letter here. So that means that someone from the short list of people who had the letter did, or passed it off to someone else to do their dirty work.
This shows that someone from the EMS field is trying to envoke controvery, when they should be more concerned with improving patient care.
To all EMS Providers, keep up the good work.
To the poster of the letter, find another profession.
half full

Liverpool, NY

#6 Aug 14, 2008
Half Empty wrote:
Why even start this post, I am also positive Ray Jones didn't post his this letter here. So that means that someone from the short list of people who had the letter did, or passed it off to someone else to do their dirty work.
This shows that someone from the EMS field is trying to envoke controvery, when they should be more concerned with improving patient care.
To all EMS Providers, keep up the good work.
To the poster of the letter, find another profession.
rural metro isnt about patient care, its about money. They got more than 500 bucks to take my wife to a cat scan. for what a taxi ride? Busting on volunteers who do it for free just isnt cool. That takes a lot of nerve. It didnt say ambulance on their van. It said transport. They should leave the real emergncies for movac.
Half Empty

Clinton, NY

#7 Aug 14, 2008
I'm not talking anything about the context of any information on the post, I'm simply stating that there are a few people who are more interested in keeping a rift going between Rural Metro and MOVAC than working out any problems.

I'm not getting into which agency does or doesn't answer calls, everyone has their place in the system.

The MOVAC Board has been doing a great job fixing previous issues and vastly improving their delivery of patient care. With paid personnel they can no longer be considered a full volunteer unit. They require that billing income to keep staff in place.

Rural Metro, a full commercial unit does what they can with the personnel and budget which is given to them from corporate. They severely underpay their people in the valley area, making it difficult to retain personnel. The corporation is a business and will cut or add when it's in the best monetary interest of the company.

My point simply was that the person who likey had a copy of this letter and posted it here, did it number one, without Mr. Jones authorization and only to stir the pot.
love my job

Cicero, NY

#8 Aug 15, 2008
the way i see it whoever posted this is about as dumb as they come. this is in no way going to help either department. i think that both dept. are a necessary evil for one another. if you all could see through the bulls**t it is nice to have them both around. figure MOVAC has 4 ambulances 1 flycar, and not too long ago even if ther could have staffed them they would have needed 2 or 3 more ambulances since there were 7 patients. so yall need to quit bickerin and work togeather like good professional ems providers that you are. you all go through the same damn classes, there arent any differentiations or seperate standards. CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG.


#9 Aug 16, 2008
What's this all about?
half full


#10 Aug 16, 2008
this crap is just like Utica forum---only they argue about the UFD vs Kunkel Ambulance. Probably all the same whiners.
Valley EMS provider

United States

#11 Aug 17, 2008
Let me start by saying that regardless of the agency there are quality providers in Herkimer County that truly care about their community & their patients. Agencies should be trying to work together to ensure that all residents of Herkimer County regardless of where you live receive emergency medical care in a prompt and timely fashion. The citizens should not be waiting for 30 minutes for an ambulance to arrive, because the 911 center is trying to get crews together.
Regardless of your "status" commercial or volunteer, the person whom calls 911 doesn't really care. All they want is an ambulance. Shouldn't we be worried about that, instead of who isn't playing today? Or how much territory can we get a certificate of need for? I think adequate coverage, timely response & good patient care are the issues we should be finding a solution to. I know for a fact that on several occasions both the adminstration of MOVAC and Rural/Metro have met to discuss issues. This is not a new issue in Herkimer County. It has been going on for over 10 years. The names at the top change, however the problem still exist.

Since: Aug 08

Utica, NY

#12 Aug 17, 2008
As for the letter that is posted above from "Ray Jones". That may have not been posted here by Ray, however it was distributed to agencies in Herkimer County via USPS mail. Rural/Metro's number 1 concern is territory, money & shareholders. They cannot adequately cover their own calls however want to take over other agencys'. Rural/Metro's biggest problem is that Syracuse will not allow them to staff their station with adequate coverage because they can't "guarantee calls to make their budget". However they will consistently pull both rigs out of service to cover interfacility transfers and dump emergency calls to other agencies because the transfers are "guaranteed money".
In fact Rural/Metro has for a few years now entered into a written agreement with Salisbury-Stattford Ambulance to simultaneously respond with them from around 7a-5p. This was to provide the residents of Dolgeville, Salisbury & surrounding areas with quick response from an ambulance, in the event S&S couldn't get a full crew or needed Advanced Life Support. Rural/Metro is unable to even honor their own agreements. Calls are still being turned over to Little Falls Ambulance and MOVAC because Rural/Metro is not available. Another issue with Rural/Metro is that they don't have adequate staffing. You may see 4 rigs or so in the building if you drive by. Doesn't mean their are people there to cover. At times the ambulance which by the way is labeled Rural/Metro "Paramedics", is not in fact an advanced life support ambulance and/or doesn't have a paramedic working in that rig. In fact at times the ambulance responds with a basic emt only. As for MOVAC, the board of directors and the Chief have come to the realization that they were having trouble covering calls and were not providing a good enough service to the communities in which it serves. They took steps to implement paying emt's and paramedics to staff their rigs when MOVAC is busiest. They are actually doing a better job of handling its calls than Rural/Metro. The call statistics from last year to present have drastically improved.
Ambulance services are at times not able to cover every single call. That is why the NYS Dept of Health requires a mutual aid plan. So no matter where you go not one service is able to cover 100% of their calls 100% of the time.
There has been a problem regarding ambulance service response in Herkimer County for a long time. As the call volumes go up the agencies are forced to adapt, make changes and take risks.
MOVAC has done just that. Put on paid staff 7 days a week at various times in hopes of responding in a more timely manner to its residents and making the EMS system better.
However, Rural/Meto hasn't adapted to make anything better. It is business as usual for them.
Feel free to do some research on your own. Ask the same questions to Montgomery County regarding Rural/Metro. You will see they want more but give the same or lesser service.
Just a side note, Rural/Metro, MOVAC, and other other agencies in Herkimer county do have very good EMS providers.
This post is strictly my opinion and doesn't reflect the views or opinions of Rural/Metro or MOVAC ambulance.

Liverpool, NY

#13 Aug 17, 2008
well put. That rules out Bob Vandawalker as the author.

Cicero, NY

#14 Aug 17, 2008
Valley EMS Provider. Very well writen and right on the mark.. My opinion on this topic... If theirs a problem, fix it. Don't stick your head in the sand and pretend theirs nothing wrong. Its evident that MOVAC's administration understands the real issues of EMS in their community and have taken steps to correct the problem. The administration and members of MOVAC should be commended for doing their jobs. Maybe the people that are criticizing should stop and take note.
woozle and what

Syracuse, NY

#15 Aug 17, 2008
well said valley. if we could get ore people like you on both the paid and volley side of this county, we'd have a perfect system!
Ray Jones

United States

#16 Aug 19, 2008
Someone pointed this site out to me today. I am amazed at all the information that is both positive,negitive, correct and incorrect about both agency's. If anyone would like to set down with me and talk about any of the above, I would be glad to. This is the only post that I have submitted. Just one comment, volunteers also charge for calls. There are no free rides anymore due to the high costs of running an ambulance. My phone number is XXX-XXXX(this site will not let me post my number) I can be reached from 9am to 5pm weekdays. Please use the phone number in the local phone book and ask for me.

The "real" Ray Jones
The Animal

Syracuse, NY

#17 Aug 19, 2008
I am a first timer here and fully agree with Valley Ems. But as for facts... Rural Metro does have some good peaple working for them but as for the administration it is less than good. I for one don't agree with the fact of Ray Jones having a fly car and not using it for its intended perpose. Gas is around $4.00 a gal and they pay there BLS perviders a little over minimum wage and there medics not much more.I know for a fact that there intermountain administration that is ALS have been in station or in the area when a call has come in but they would much rather sit around a fair and send there BLS crew because its a contract and they will get payed for it. Well if you know me you would say i have the right to bash RM for things thay have done but on another note I will never bash a Vollunteer after all he or she is doing it for free but just remember this has been a problem for many years and any county you go to has the same problem wether it be Vollunteer,Fire EMS, Or Corp EMS.......Thank You For Reading Stay Safe And God Bless
In time of need

Enon Valley, PA

#18 Aug 19, 2008
It's not all about the money. Rural Metro came to my rescue when I was a patient at St.Lukes and transported me to my residence for $0.00. No other commerical or volunteer corp would even consider it. They were asked and turned me down. Kunkel wanted money up front and Utica would not leave the city. The local volunteer squad (not Movac) said they could not get a crew. Rural Metro was kind enough to do the job. I want to thank them for being nice. If I ever win the lottery, I will make all their families very happy.

Again Thanks to Rural Metro
Blog Police

Enon Valley, PA

#19 Aug 19, 2008

Please learn how to spell!! or use spell check!!!
taxs payer

Canastota, NY

#20 Aug 19, 2008
Were was everybody this weekend, all kinds all calls and nobody answered them !!!!! At lease Little Falls and Ilion protect their own area's everybody else has to pray that someone else will come to their rescue ( thank GOD for Kunkle , St Johnsville and Edwards )

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