Build Jail vs. Ship Them Out

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songbird

Newport, NY

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#62
May 3, 2013
 

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Way to much money is being spent on overtime,some of these baby sitters will make over 100 k this year.Wake up taxpayers
yes you are clueless

Herkimer, NY

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#63
May 3, 2013
 

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clueless wrote:
<quoted text>
You're looking on the wrong page. Look under variance for county jails in NYS. The state mandates.
In new jail construction the State Commission of Corrections, a state agency is directly responsible for the size and scale of new jail construction in New York State. The SCOC mandates the size and timeline of their construction and dealt financial penalties to counties who have "chosen to pursue alternatives to expansion instead or do not otherwise comply."
The State Commission of Corrections’ involvement in county jail expansion occurs when it determines that a local jail (like ours) is operating at a greater capacity than it was designed to hold
or that the county will require increased jail space in the future and will therefore require expansion. The SCOC has legal control of the classification system of county jails. They determine how many people can be held at a given facility at any time.“Variances” are granted by the commission to a county to allow them to hold beyond their single-bunk cell capacity.
The SCOC has historically granted such variances for long periods while county officials work to resolve local crowding problems. When the State Commission of Corrections “pulls” the variances, counties must either pay legal penalties for holding more than their allotted capacity or pay to house people at neighboring county jails while maintaining a minimum four bed facility. Thus, variances have become a powerful tool that commissioners wield in their negotiations with counties over new jail construction.
variance for county jails has nothing to do with the size and scope of building a brand new facility. That provision of regulation you are incorrectly trying to cite pertains to expanding an existing facility and it even says so directly in the reg.

What a dumbass! Worse yet, you don't even bother to actually LINK to the source document because you copied and pasted from several different ones, which do not pertain to one and other. At least the other poster actually linked to the CORRECT source document.
yes you are clueless

Herkimer, NY

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#64
May 3, 2013
 
clueless wrote:
<quoted text>
You're looking on the wrong page. Look under variance for county jails in NYS. The state mandates.
In new jail construction the State Commission of Corrections, a state agency is directly responsible for the size and scale of new jail construction in New York State. The SCOC mandates the size and timeline of their construction and dealt financial penalties to counties who have "chosen to pursue alternatives to expansion instead or do not otherwise comply."
The State Commission of Corrections’ involvement in county jail expansion occurs when it determines that a local jail (like ours) is operating at a greater capacity than it was designed to hold
or that the county will require increased jail space in the future and will therefore require expansion. The SCOC has legal control of the classification system of county jails. They determine how many people can be held at a given facility at any time.“Variances” are granted by the commission to a county to allow them to hold beyond their single-bunk cell capacity.
The SCOC has historically granted such variances for long periods while county officials work to resolve local crowding problems. When the State Commission of Corrections “pulls” the variances, counties must either pay legal penalties for holding more than their allotted capacity or pay to house people at neighboring county jails while maintaining a minimum four bed facility. Thus, variances have become a powerful tool that commissioners wield in their negotiations with counties over new jail construction.
You're looking under the wrong page, moron.

http://weblinks.westlaw.com/toc/default.aspx...

Variances under the county jail section

9 CRR-NY 7050.1

OFFICIAL COMPILATION OF CODES, RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
TITLE 9. EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT
SUBTITLE AA. STATE COMMISSION OF CORRECTION
CHAPTER I. MINIMUM STANDARDS AND REGULATIONS FOR MANAGEMENT OF COUNTY JAILS AND
PENITENTIARIES
SUBCHAPTER A. MINIMUM STANDARDS AND REGULATIONS
PART 7050. VARIANCES
Current through January 31, 2013

* Section 7050.1.* Policy.

(a) The chief administrative officer of a local correctional facility may apply to the State Commission of Correction for a variance when:
(1) full compliance with a specific rule or regulation of this Subtitle or any provision thereof cannot be achieved or maintained by or subsequent to the effective date of such rule or regulation; or
(2) compliance is to be achieved in a manner other than that which is specified in such rules and regulations.
(b) The State Commission of Correction may grant a variance only upon a determination that:
(1) full compliance with a specific rule or regulation of this Subtitle or a provision thereof would create extreme practical difficulties or excessive hardships as a result of circumstances which are unique to a particular local correctional facility; or
(2) compliance is to be achieved in an alternative manner sufficient to meet the intent of such rule or regulation.
9 CRR-NY 7050.1
9 CRR-NY 7050.1
2011 WL 74132138
9 CRR-NY 7050.1

END OF DOCUMENT
yes you are clueless

Herkimer, NY

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#65
May 3, 2013
 

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clueless wrote:
<quoted text>
You're looking on the wrong page. Look under variance for county jails in NYS. The state mandates.
In new jail construction the State Commission of Corrections, a state agency is directly responsible for the size and scale of new jail construction in New York State. The SCOC mandates the size and timeline of their construction and dealt financial penalties to counties who have "chosen to pursue alternatives to expansion instead or do not otherwise comply."
The State Commission of Corrections’ involvement in county jail expansion occurs when it determines that a local jail (like ours) is operating at a greater capacity than it was designed to hold
or that the county will require increased jail space in the future and will therefore require expansion. The SCOC has legal control of the classification system of county jails. They determine how many people can be held at a given facility at any time.“Variances” are granted by the commission to a county to allow them to hold beyond their single-bunk cell capacity.
The SCOC has historically granted such variances for long periods while county officials work to resolve local crowding problems. When the State Commission of Corrections “pulls” the variances, counties must either pay legal penalties for holding more than their allotted capacity or pay to house people at neighboring county jails while maintaining a minimum four bed facility. Thus, variances have become a powerful tool that commissioners wield in their negotiations with counties over new jail construction.
BTW, none of that still does not CITE any specific law and/or regulation, which you still make a claim exists. You seem to know it all so well yet you still have YET to provide any single shred of proof to back up anything you say.

Just like Chilelli, absolutely NO CREDIBILITY!
moot

New York, NY

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#66
May 4, 2013
 
The courts have ruled. Ground breaking is expected the second week of July.
you are joking

Herkimer, NY

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#67
May 4, 2013
 
moot wrote:
The courts have ruled. Ground breaking is expected the second week of July.
When was this supposed court ruling? Certainly did not see nor hear anything in the news about it. Besides, how can they break ground when they still have not committed to a site nor have actual plans submitted to and approved by the State for the new facility?

Just more BS from a useless troll....
in case

New York, NY

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#68
May 4, 2013
 
you are joking wrote:
<quoted text>
When was this supposed court ruling? Certainly did not see nor hear anything in the news about it. Besides, how can they break ground when they still have not committed to a site nor have actual plans submitted to and approved by the State for the new facility?
Just more BS from a useless troll....
Everything has been in place for months waiting for the rubber stamp. Some in the legislature (who don't matter anyway) aren't in the loop. It's all a formality.

The site has been chosen, the numbers work and we're getting a jail. Info, like everything else flows downhill, so I'm quessing you'll be hearding things in a week or two.
you are full of bs

Herkimer, NY

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#69
May 4, 2013
 
except the State CoC says otherwise.

No such word as "hearding".
in case

New York, NY

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#70
May 4, 2013
 
you are full of bs wrote:
except the State CoC says otherwise.
No such word as "hearding".
I "heard" you'll possibly be "hearing" things in a week or two.
in case

New York, NY

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#71
May 4, 2013
 
;-)
you are full of bs

Herkimer, NY

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#73
May 4, 2013
 

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There is nothing to hear about. My sources at the State CoC say nothing has been submitted for review. No site has been actually purchased, nor acquired via eminent domain so there is nothing to hear about at all.
what an ignor azz

New York, NY

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#74
May 9, 2013
 

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you are full of bs wrote:
There is nothing to hear about. My sources at the State CoC say nothing has been submitted for review. No site has been actually purchased, nor acquired via eminent domain so there is nothing to hear about at all.
"your sources"...you crackm me up.

your getting a jail and u have no say in the matter. what do ur souce think about that.
Myth Busters

New York, NY

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#75
May 10, 2013
 

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The Manadate Myth

Guest view: Regional jails an answer, but
challenging
By Thomas A. Beilein
Observer-Dispatch
Posted Feb 11, 2011 @ 09:00 PM
As a former sheriff who ran a large jail for many years, I fully appreciate the financial, logistical and political difficulties inherent in the need for counties to provide a safe, humane and secure facility to house those individuals who are arrested by local police or sentenced to local jail time.
As the chairman of the state Commission of Correction, I understand and appreciate the position articulated in your Feb. 8 editorial (“Counties need plan to share jail facilities”). But I would like to respond to a couple of points.
First, you say that Herkimer County “is under order from the state to build a new jail …” That is not accurate. It is true that the Herkimer County jail is hopelessly antiquated and dilapidated, that it cannot be remodeled or expanded and that it cannot provide anywhere near the required exercise space for the inmates. The jail does not, and cannot, meet state regulations drafted to ensure that correctional institutions are secure and safe places to work and house inmates.
By repeatedly issuing variances from those regulations – which are designed as a stop-gap measure not a permanent way of doing business – the Commission of Correction has saved the county taxpayers substantial sums that would have been spent to house all of its inmates, rather than half of them, in other
counties. That cannot continue. The jail is quickly deteriorating to the point where it would be uninhabitable as either a correctional institution or a workplace.
Although the Commission agrees with the county that building a new jail is the fiscally prudent action, how Herkimer chooses to address the issue – through construction, boarding out all of its inmates or sharing space with another county – is a local decision. The Commission of Correction does not have the authority to compel any county to build a new jail.
Second, your argument that Oneida County, which has plenty of available space in its jail, serve as
something of a regional facility has merit. It would make sense in some areas for a regional jail to service two or more counties, and the Commission of Correction is not opposed to that solution.
The problem is, regionalization has been considered several times in several regions of the state and has never succeeded. A regional jail would require one or more sheriffs to give up control of their jail. It would require agreements on who pays how much. And it would necessitate the creation of a new taxing district to pay for the facility. Every county in New York that has ever considered that solution has abandoned the idea, concluding that the obstacles were insurmountable.
We understand that a jail is an enormous financial drain on localities, especially a smaller county, such as Herkimer. But it is the price we as a society pay in order to keep dangerous criminals off our streets.
Thomas A. Beilein is chairman of the New York State Commission of Correction and former Niagara
County sheriff.
Incarcerate

Herkimer, NY

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#76
May 11, 2013
 

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Incarcerate that German street extension group of idiots.
nova

Herkimer, NY

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#77
May 12, 2013
 

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Thanks for the post mythbuster. While the chairman's statement doesn't contain the word mandate, it certainly makes very clear that a new jail is necessary in Herkimer County, all that is lacking then is the correct word to describe such.
Size

Herkimer, NY

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#78
May 12, 2013
 

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Correct - it doesn't mandate a certain size. Why such a large one? Like it was said before, if there was money to be made, Oneida Co wouldn't have a whole wing shut down. More $ to build, more $ to heat, more $ to cool, more $ to secure it, more $ to maintain it. Need and want - are two different things.
what

New Lebanon, NY

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#79
May 13, 2013
 
Size wrote:
Correct - it doesn't mandate a certain size. Why such a large one? Like it was said before, if there was money to be made, Oneida Co wouldn't have a whole wing shut down. More $ to build, more $ to heat, more $ to cool, more $ to secure it, more $ to maintain it. Need and want - are two different things.
In new jail construction the State Commission of Corrections, a state agency is directly responsible for the size and scale of new jail construction in New York State. The SCOC mandates the size and timeline of their construction and dealt financial penalties to counties who have "chosen to pursue alternatives to expansion instead or do not otherwise comply."
The State Commission of Corrections’ involvement in county jail expansion occurs when it determines that a local jail (like ours) is operating at a greater capacity than it was designed to hold
or that the county will require increased jail space in the future and will therefore require expansion. The SCOC has legal control of the classification system of county jails. They determine how many people can be held at a given facility at any time.“Variances” are granted by the commission to a county to allow them to hold beyond their single-bunk cell capacity.
The SCOC has historically granted such variances for long periods while county officials work to resolve local crowding problems. When the State Commission of Corrections “pulls” the variances, counties must either pay legal penalties for holding more than their allotted capacity or pay to house people at neighboring county jails while maintaining a minimum four bed facility. Thus, variances have become a powerful tool that commissioners wield in their negotiations with counties over new jail construction.
absolutely false

New York, NY

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#80
May 13, 2013
 

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what wrote:
<quoted text>
In new jail construction the State Commission of Corrections, a state agency is directly responsible for the size and scale of new jail construction in New York State. The SCOC mandates the size and timeline of their construction and dealt financial penalties to counties who have "chosen to pursue alternatives to expansion instead or do not otherwise comply."
100% complete BS.
unreal

New Lebanon, NY

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#82
May 13, 2013
 
absolutely false wrote:
<quoted text>
100% complete BS.
If you had a clue...
is this not true

New Lebanon, NY

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#83
May 13, 2013
 
Who’s Who?
State Commission of
Correction (SCOC)
SCOC oversees all correctional
facilities in New York State
including state prisons, county
jails and penitentiaries, and city,
town and village lockups.
Correction Law provides a great
deal of discretion and authority
to SCOC to ensure that inmates
are receiving proper care and
are in a humane setting. As
such, SCOC is able to
promulgate rules and regulations
establishing minimum standards
for correctional facilities.

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