Gunfire kills 4 in separate weekend incidents

At least four people in Chicago and neighboring suburbs were killed by gunfire Saturday and early Sunday, including a man shot while driving a car. Full Story
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“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#31 Jun 23, 2008
Objectively Concerned wrote:
Human beings, residents of the Chicagoland area have died.

"(OBJECTIVELY CONCERNED IS A WOLF DISGUISED AS A SHEEP)"

The tougher gun laws are designed to accomplish a reduction of gun violence by increasing deterrence and reducing the ease at which one can acquire a gun. So far, many of you are suggesting that the deterrent component of tougher gun laws is not successful.

Before writing off the demand for tougher gun laws because of failed deterrence, consider the other component of the laws -- namely reducing access. How easy is it to acquire a gun? How easy is it to track a gun or bullet? If a significant portion of the guns/bullets were discovered to follow a similar path from origin to the shooters, would that provide attention to a specific area where attention if not regulation should be applied?
Yea, you want solutions; you want more gun controls (that always fail) after you applied over 20,000 gun law solutions that affected only the law-abiding and CLEARLY had no effect on gun toting drug dealers. Why don't you try this solution: ban handguns again.

Why don't you ask the shooters how easy gun access is ?

How is it that an antigun dirtbag like yourself has managed to escape the Chicago gun violence ? Is it because you are an armed Chicago politician or a Chicago politician who has armed bodyguards? I can say this about you: you are a liar and a conartist (just like a corrupt, dirty and armed Chicago politician.)

The above quote from Objectively Concerned is from an antigun goon who is responsible for the beatings, muggings, rapes and murders that have occurred in Chicago in the last 25 years.
nuking futz

Oswego, IL

#32 Jun 23, 2008
Wow nice filibuster. You make some valid points but one thing you overlooked is this.The majority of these shootings are gang related but that does not mean that there are not witnesses and or people who know exactly who did it and why.These same people who have information on these crimes will not and do not report it to the police because of fear of reprisal or the asinine concept of not snitching or cooperating.Therefore a lot of the people in these neighborhoods where these shootings are happening are in essence helping to keep the cycle of violence alive by leaving these punk thug gangbangers on the street because of their refusal to cooperate lest they be seen as in bed with 'the man".The reason this crap does not happen where I live in my predominetley white neighborhood is because people watch out for each other and report things that look out of place. They actually cooperate with the police and in turn the neighborhood stays safe. Its really a simple concept. Ive always thought that people should submit themselves to random searches of their person by police...if you have nothing to hide you should have nothing to fear from them..its the scumbags and punks who live in these places who should be scared..alas it will never happen because of the infringement of civil liberties and the scare of OMG racial profiling etc..and the powers that be are oh so afraid of that ahole Jesse Jackson or Sharpton protesting that it basically shuts down any sort of effective policing in the community. Meanwhile the body count just keeps rising. Ask yourself which you would rather have,,safe neighborhods by empowering and cooperating with the police or the friggin shooting gallery that exists because of the silence and mistrust that is there now.
Monty

Omaha, NE

#33 Jun 23, 2008
Objectively Concerned wrote:
Even if you were to buy into the numbers that 100% of the gun violence crimes are caused by blacks and latinos, that does not mean that 100% of blacks and latinos support and engage in gun violence.
.
Whose numbers are those???
Objectively Concerned wrote:
The tougher gun laws are designed to accomplish a reduction of gun violence by increasing deterrence and reducing the ease at which one can acquire a gun.
How about that? Do you mean that the current 20,000 gun laws on the books aren't "tough" enough? And if you do agree, do you also agree that htye should be removed if you believe they're ineffectual?
Objectively Concerned wrote:
So far, many of you are suggesting that the deterrent component of tougher gun laws is not successful.
And the evidence proves it!
Now, as was posted by someone before...how many laws against murder do you think we'll need before people murdering??
Objectively Concerned wrote:
Before writing off the demand for tougher gun laws because of failed deterrence, consider the other component of the laws -- namely reducing access. How easy is it to acquire a gun?
So it's the guns...not the criminals using them? Interesting angle.
Objectively Concerned wrote:
How easy is it to track a gun or bullet? If a significant portion of the guns/bullets were discovered to follow a similar path from origin to the shooters, would that provide attention to a specific area where attention if not regulation should be applied?
Where do you suppose the criminals buy their guns? 7-11??
Objectively Concerned wrote:
The decision to address (and ultimately not resolve) conflicts via guns is a growing issue stigmatized by race but certainly not bound by it. The school shootings across the country are evidence of this.
Hmm, so it is only conflicts with guns that you're concerned about?
Second, school shooting are still statitically small. Interesting thing...those school shootings happened in Gun Free Zones. Let's talk about similar paths right there.
Objectively Concerned wrote:
Gun laws, like any other laws, have a limited effect.
And yet you're wanting more. Irony? When did a law ever prevent a criminal from breaking it?
Noogie Bandit

Redford, MI

#34 Jun 23, 2008
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>
Yea, you want solutions; you want more gun controls (that always fail) after you applied over 20,000 gun law solutions that affected only the law-abiding and CLEARLY had no effect on gun toting drug dealers. Why don't you try this solution: ban handguns again.
Why don't you ask the shooters how easy gun access is ?
How is it that an antigun dirtbag like yourself has managed to escape the Chicago gun violence ? Is it because you are an armed Chicago politician or a Chicago politician who has armed bodyguards? I can say this about you: you are a liar and a conartist (just like a corrupt, dirty and armed Chicago politician.)
The above quote from Objectively Concerned is from an antigun goon who is responsible for the beatings, muggings, rapes and murders that have occurred in Chicago in the last 25 years.
The odds are in favor of a person never being a victim of a crime against their person in their entire life. A lot of people are willing to bet on those odds and happily spend their entire life without ever being physically confronted by a would-be criminal. This is especially true in Chicago when you look to see how much of the crime is actually confined to a handful of neighborhoods, neighborhoods that aware people actively avoid (not only because of the violence but also because there is nothing in those neighborhoods worth going to).
Muslim Patriot

Redford, MI

#35 Jun 23, 2008
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you ask the shooters how easy gun access is ?
And you would want to make it even easier for these would-be criminals to have access to firearms?

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#36 Jun 23, 2008
nuking futz wrote:
Wow nice filibuster. You make some valid points but one thing you overlooked is this.The majority of these shootings are gang related but that does not mean that there are not witnesses and or people who know exactly who did it and why.These same people who have information on these crimes will not and do not report it to the police because of fear of reprisal or the asinine concept of not snitching or cooperating.Therefore a lot of the people in these neighborhoods where these shootings are happening are in essence helping to keep the cycle of violence alive by leaving these punk thug gangbangers on the street because of their refusal to cooperate lest they be seen as in bed with 'the man".
The source of all the violence is because drugs are illegal. But why the violence ?

Drug dealing is lucrative to lower income, less educated people. It always will be. Believe me, poor folks are not going to snitch. Even the ones who are not profiting from illegal drug sales will not snitch BECAUSE the drug selling is so lucrative they actually have some degree of hope that they may somehow, in the future, profit from it also.

It's funny when dipshits think it to be normal to snitch on drug dealers.

REPEAT (because you dipshits are so stupid). Even when innocent kids get killed people will not snitch. The violence does not sway them !
nuking futz wrote:
The reason this crap does not happen where I live in my predominetley white neighborhood is because people watch out for each other and report things that look out of place. They actually cooperate with the police and in turn the neighborhood stays safe. Its really a simple concept.
The people in your neighborhood are not poor enough and have enough education to not find illegal drug dealing to be lucrative enough (poor people have much less to lose than do the folks in your community)!!

The govt's war on drugs (by criminalizing drugs) is the cause of most of the violence.
nuking futz wrote:
Ive always thought that people should submit themselves to random searches of their person by police...if you have nothing to hide you should have nothing to fear from them..
That's because you think like a nazi. The 4th amendment prohibits those searches. It does so to protect us from govt (our worst enemy.)
nuking futz wrote:
its the scumbags and punks who live in these places who should be scared..alas it will never happen because of the infringement of civil liberties and the scare of OMG racial profiling etc..and the powers that be are oh so afraid of that ahole Jesse Jackson or Sharpton protesting that it basically shuts down any sort of effective policing in the community.
You're much more like them than you think. Remember, it's the criminalizing of drugs that is the cause of all the violence. Govt should not be telling us what we can or cannot ingest.
nuking futz wrote:
Meanwhile the body count just keeps rising. Ask yourself which you would rather have,,safe neighborhods by empowering and cooperating with the police or the friggin shooting gallery that exists because of the silence and mistrust that is there now.
Because I'm not poor, and because I'm somewhat educated, I don't have to make the choice that you offer me, so why would I choose ? So you could have a police state, and the illusion of a perfect society ?

Only a dips.h.i.t would try to make society perfect. We will always have poverty and insecurity - it's our freedoms that are at risk. Once we lose them we may never get them back. And they're not worth giving up just to clean up a violent neighborhood where most everyone, living in that neighborhood, is indifferent about the violence anyway.
nuking futz

Oswego, IL

#37 Jun 23, 2008
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>
The source of all the violence is because drugs are illegal. But why the violence ?
Drug dealing is lucrative to lower income, less educated people. It always will be. Believe me, poor folks are not going to snitch. Even the ones who are not profiting from illegal drug sales will not snitch BECAUSE the drug selling is so lucrative they actually have some degree of hope that they may somehow, in the future, profit from it also.
It's funny when dipshits think it to be normal to snitch on drug dealers.
REPEAT (because you dipshits are so stupid). Even when innocent kids get killed people will not snitch. The violence does not sway them !
<quoted text>
The people in your neighborhood are not poor enough and have enough education to not find illegal drug dealing to be lucrative enough (poor people have much less to lose than do the folks in your community)!!
The govt's war on drugs (by criminalizing drugs) is the cause of most of the violence.
<quoted text>
That's because you think like a nazi. The 4th amendment prohibits those searches. It does so to protect us from govt (our worst enemy.)
<quoted text>
You're much more like them than you think. Remember, it's the criminalizing of drugs that is the cause of all the violence. Govt should not be telling us what we can or cannot ingest.
<quoted text>
Because I'm not poor, and because I'm somewhat educated, I don't have to make the choice that you offer me, so why would I choose ? So you could have a police state, and the illusion of a perfect society ?
Only a dips.h.i.t would try to make society perfect. We will always have poverty and insecurity - it's our freedoms that are at risk. Once we lose them we may never get them back. And they're not worth giving up just to clean up a violent neighborhood where most everyone, living in that neighborhood, is indifferent about the violence anyway.
Dipshit?? sounds to me like you're the dipshit.. so make excuses why these idiots wont snitch to the police and somehow try to justify the drug dealing that goes on?? are you kidding me?? if thats indeed the case then they have NO complaints about the violence where they live because they are aiding and abetting it moron.Thats the point i was trying to make genius instead I have to listen to your pseudo-intellectual psycho babble. What a douchebag you are
Thirdpower

United States

#38 Jun 23, 2008
Objectively Concerned:

According to the City of Chicago, 97% of the murders for the first three months of the year were committed by individuals w/ a criminal history. 80% of the victims had a criminal history.

According to the 2006 IL Uniform Crime Report.

Illinois had a population of 12.8 million w/ a murder rate of 6.1/100K (780).

Chicago had 22.2% of the population of Illinois yet accounted for 60% of murders w/ a per capita rate of 16.4/100K.

Cook County had 41.4% of the population of Illinois yet accounted for 73.6% of murders w/ a per capita rate of 10.83/100K.

The Cook County murders in raw number/per capita increased 4.4% and 4.9% respectively while arrest numbers and rates dropped over 18% from '05 to '06.

If Chicago were to fall into Lake Michigan, the Illinois murder rate would drop to 3.14.

Were the rest of Cook County to follow suit, the rate would drop to 2.74.

Guess where the strictest gun laws are.

Obviously the problem is not people who legally own firearms.

www.daysofourtrailers.blogspot.com

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#40 Jun 23, 2008
nuking futz wrote:
<quoted text>Dipshit?? sounds to me like you're the dipshit.. so make excuses why these idiots wont snitch to the police and somehow try to justify the drug dealing that goes on?? are you kidding me?? if thats indeed the case then they have NO complaints about the violence where they live because they are aiding and abetting it moron.Thats the point i was trying to make genius instead I have to listen to your pseudo-intellectual psycho babble. What a douchebag you are
Go ask police to search you - you've got nothing to hide, right.
Monty

Omaha, NE

#41 Jun 23, 2008
Muslim Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>
And you would want to make it even easier for these would-be criminals to have access to firearms?
Where did anyone advocate that in this thread??
nuking futz

Oswego, IL

#43 Jun 24, 2008
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>
Go ask police to search you - you've got nothing to hide, right.
Anytime they want to they are more than welcome. I'd rather be stopped and searched every so often if it meant that my neighborhood was safer and it kept crime down..apparantly you wouldnt..go live in Englewood then moron because you seem to like that type of lifestyle. I guess people shouldnt be randomly searched anymore before they board an airplane either huh?? You are an idiot of the highest nature...

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#44 Jun 24, 2008
nuking futz wrote:
<quoted text>Anytime they want to they are more than welcome. I'd rather be stopped and searched every so often if it meant that my neighborhood was safer and it kept crime down..apparantly you wouldnt..go live in Englewood then moron because you seem to like that type of lifestyle. I guess people shouldnt be randomly searched anymore before they board an airplane either huh?? You are an idiot of the highest nature...
Getting searched before boarding a plane makes the plane somewhat safer - you agree to that; you are not forced to be searched.

When you agree to police search (without probable cause) then you encourage the trampling of important rules that protect important rights. You, apparently, want a police state for more security, but it's just an illusion of more safety. In the end the polce and govt become your new enemy to your safety and your freedom.

You believe all police are honest, but they are not and never will be.
sue

United States

#45 Jun 24, 2008
chill dude-------- it's only a blog.......... you arent going to change anything with the personal attacks, which, by the way, I disagree with you weak points also.
nuking futz wrote:
<quoted text>Dipshit?? sounds to me like you're the dipshit.. so make excuses why these idiots wont snitch to the police and somehow try to justify the drug dealing that goes on?? are you kidding me?? if thats indeed the case then they have NO complaints about the violence where they live because they are aiding and abetting it moron.Thats the point i was trying to make genius instead I have to listen to your pseudo-intellectual psycho babble. What a douchebag you are
Monty

Omaha, NE

#46 Jun 24, 2008
nuking futz wrote:
<quoted text> I'd rather be stopped and searched every so often if it meant that my neighborhood was safer and it kept crime down....
.
Gee, wasn't the gun ban supposed to do that? How many more lies from the governemtn are you going to believe? I guess if they cloak their latest scheme in "the common good" or "for the children", you'll be swallowing it hook, line, & sinker.

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