Winter's last gasp: Snowstorm hits western, north-central Minne...

It's late April, but Old Man Winter was showing tonight that he isn't finished with Minnesota just yet.

[steve baker]

No comment that you could print!

[Bob]

Must be global warming!!

You global warming supporters look more silly every snowstorm...

Oh s--h--i--t I forget it climate chage, what a bunch of c--r--a--p, and there are people who are dumb enought to support Al Gores award winning sales pitch..

[Mellers]

Mark Seeley does a really good job about showing Minnesota's history and climate change patterns. One thing I've noticed before hearing the term "climate change" is that weather is "wackier" than ever. I think, Bob, even you commented that we don't get the snow we used to when you were a kid. Lows are warmer than ever, especially in winter.

I became a believer in climate change when I heard that some migratory birds don't migrate south for the winter anymore. Or that tree species never found in certain climates are now found far north of their northern region. Plants and animals don't decide on a whim to change. This is long-term.

[Super Wayne]

Mellers wrote:

Mark Seeley does a really good job about showing Minnesota's history and climate change patterns. One thing I've noticed before hearing the term "climate change" is that weather is "wackier" than ever. I think, Bob, even you commented that we don't get the snow we used to when you were a kid. Lows are warmer than ever, especially in winter.
I became a believer in climate change when I heard that some migratory birds don't migrate south for the winter anymore. Or that tree species never found in certain climates are now found far north of their northern region. Plants and animals don't decide on a whim to change. This is long-term.

Oh I also believe in climate change. Im quite sure the dinosours didnt expect the chilly days they went through. I am just not a believer in the idea that man and, specifically CO2 is the culprit in any way that would have an actual and noticeable impact. I think things shift and change. Naturally.

I surely wont start the Chicken Little dance with Gore over it and I am fuming mad that my pocket book and freedoms are being siphoned off as a result of what is an arguable and ongoing debate over the theory of green house gas emission. Despit what gore would have people to believe.

Carbon cap and trade.... BAH! Energy crisis.... BAH BAH!!

[Mellers]

Super Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh I also believe in climate change. Im quite sure the dinosours didnt expect the chilly days they went through. I am just not a believer in the idea that man and, specifically CO2 is the culprit in any way that would have an actual and noticeable impact. I think things shift and change. Naturally.
I surely wont start the Chicken Little dance with Gore over it and I am fuming mad that my pocket book and freedoms are being siphoned off as a result of what is an arguable and ongoing debate over the theory of green house gas emission. Despit what gore would have people to believe.
Carbon cap and trade.... BAH! Energy crisis.... BAH BAH!!

I can see your point. And carbon trading? Don't get me started on that. What a horrible, lofty, don't-see-any-tangible-benefit s program that's about! But you and I will (hopefully respectfully) disagree about human-caused climate change. I've heard enough of what's happened recently that hasn't happened in quite a few (thousand) years. And if we're heading towards similar scenarios that happened when dinosaurs were around, human-caused or not, that's not a fate most of us will enjoy.

[JAdams]

Great timing of the communists in the legislature in passing the cap and trade bs.

[St Paul]

Isn't summer vacation just around the corner?

[On the other hand]

For those who do not believe in Global Warming or climate change you clearly have not been to Seattle. I was this week and let me tell you the glacier snow is not as deep as it used to be.
Mount Baker even with all of its glory is slowly melting. Just because you can not see it does nto mean it is not happening. My Uncle is climatologist who has studied global warming and he states that science has proven that earth is slowly warming and it may take centuries for it to happen but it will happen.

[Big G]

We take a small amount of an essential trace gas and put it in the atmosphere in concentrations that still total less than the historical maximums, and we want to spend our lives, our fortune and our freedoms in combating it.

Glaciers grow, glaciers shrink for no reason. All of the glaciers in the world are not shrinking. Some are growing. The Antarctic ice cap is even growing.

Only the Marxists or the gullible believe that we must destroy our liberty to stop a fraudulent idea. Why not? If you can panic a bunch of sheep into running into the wolves mouth, you can win the day on controlling the minutiae of peoples lives. You can make them believe a lie and you can gain power.

The best thing is for the government to do nothing and get out of the way. Get out of the way of offshore drilling, get out of the way of drilling ANWR, and get out of the way of developing nuclear power. We want our liberty and we want the big government energy dictators out of our lives.

[MN Zipper Gang JL from CA]

Just a curious question?
Was the decline and fall of the Ice Age caused by "Global Warming"? Could it be possible that the warming of the earth is just a natural occurring event and we are mere sand pebbles in relation of time during this current phase of it?
There is nothing wrong with trying as humans to protect what recources we have for future generations, however to blame every change in our climate on "Global Warming" is an absolute disregard of what has been occurring for eons on this planet.
By the way, I feel sorry for you Minnesotans who are induring this weekends bout of lousy weather.
Where I am the temp is supposed to hit the mid 90's today, plenty of sun, no wind and low humidity.
Bye!!

[steve baker]

You want to see climate change? Just wait.

Some day the sun is going to burn itself out, if it doesn't explode before then!

What do you propose we should be doing about that?

[Super Wayne]

On the other hand wrote:

For those who do not believe in Global Warming or climate change you clearly have not been to Seattle.....

A similar situation was found in Mount Kilimanjaro and studies on both sides have come to a conclusion that the likely cause of the ice melt can not be stated for fact. Studies show that deforestation at the base of the mountain is as likely if not more likely to have led to the ice melt.

My point in responding is not to debate ice melt. I am not a scientist.

My point is that anyone claiming that global warming is real because of migeratory patters, ice melting, glacial shelf size and thickeness, el nino, storm strengths and frequency changes, ect. Or any combination there-of is simply taking the fast road to falling for a statement rather then the substance of that statement or idea.

Al Gore has stated that the "debate on global warming is over". Bold statement indeed and sadly people are latching on. Why? because of Al Gore? Because he and like minded politicians across the globe created a political think tank/study group to research global warming? Do you actually call this valid research when you pay a group of scientists to join together under the same group name with the intent of proving global warming rather then debunking it?

The debate is over? Yeah right...

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm...
http://epw.senate.gov/speechitem.cfm...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166150,00...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4276242.s...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...

And that is but a small few instances where either the opposite is said or where scientists themselves are saying that they are not sure. That it cannot be called conclusive proof.

continued....

[Super Wayne]

The debate is on and Global Warming is ONLY a theory in scientific circles. Each point of global warmings supposed impacts has been individually brought under scrutiny and argued. Proven either way? No. But thats not why I am posting this. I, unlike Al Gore and those like him are stating that its proven on one sidfe. They would not only have you buy into the theory but support massive worldwide efforts (read; EXPENSIVE efforts) to curtail something that they simply cannot prove outside of debated and argued speculation.... Again. A theory.
Look at this... Gravity, so far as science is concerned remains as a theory even to this day. There are discrepiancies in what gravity is and how it works. Thus... it remains a theory. And I am to believe Gore when he says that the Debate on global warming is over? Sorry Al, but when you use science as your "proof" then you gotta play by the rules and framework of that same science. That means, you have nothing but a Theory.
Do we attempt to make massive and expensive changes globally due to a theory? I say no. Global Warming has become the flavor of the decade. It is quickly pointed to as the "cause" of everything to migeratory patterns to ice melting on mountains to why a hurricane is stronger today on average then 50 years ago.
You buy this load of BS?
In the 1970's these things were blamed on Global Cooling (the flavor of the decade then) in the 80-90's it was blamed on Freon and the Ozone layer.
Do you still believe that?
So here we are. Watching as right here in Minnesota a MASSIVE bill is passed in the name of Global Warming that does nothing but create revenue for the government via new taxation on a product that was literally created from thin air. This is Al Gores plan! This is what he wants around the globe!
Not even the most dense person can agree that the cap and trade system is nothing but a hack attempt at stealing tax payer dollars across the globe. Period. Yet here you are. You still believe what Al Gore and his like minded people say? Is he and the environmentalists the gleaming savior they claim to be? Or are they no different then Big Oil, big business and big government? What does that say about their own scientific organizations findings that have been the primary fuel for the debate? What does that say about their speeches and rhetoric that they put fourth to the global leaders in relation to this issue? You really think they would or could say anything different at this point?
They cant.
The ego's and financial investments are staggaring and they simply cannot nor would not say anything different.

[Tax This]

On the other hand wrote:

For those who do not believe in Global Warming or climate change you clearly have not been to Seattle. I was this week and let me tell you the glacier snow is not as deep as it used to be.
Mount Baker even with all of its glory is slowly melting. Just because you can not see it does nto mean it is not happening. My Uncle is climatologist who has studied global warming and he states that science has proven that earth is slowly warming and it may take centuries for it to happen but it will happen.

Its soooo bad the polar caps on Mars are melting.

[Tax This]

BillB St Paul wrote:

MN Zipper, please see what I said about the time you were writing your comment. There were at least four major ice ages, What we have now is climate change at a faster rate than ever before known to man. With so many people consuming so much there is bound to be quicker changes.

I thought it was global warming? Which is it? Now we have climate change? When did the climate not change?

[JAdams]

On the other hand wrote:

For those who do not believe in Global Warming or climate change you clearly have not been to Seattle. I was this week and let me tell you the glacier snow is not as deep as it used to be.
Mount Baker even with all of its glory is slowly melting. Just because you can not see it does nto mean it is not happening. My Uncle is climatologist who has studied global warming and he states that science has proven that earth is slowly warming and it may take centuries for it to happen but it will happen.

Question for you...the galciers melted in Minnesota about 10,000 years ago. There weren't any SUV's or coal burning power plants. What caused the glaciers to melt? By the way it was 33 degrees out this morning.

[jcf817]

I love how an April snowstorm brings out the GW-deniers. As if an April snowstorm is unusual or is an indication either way. Also, the more often you trot out the cries of, "How about your Global Warming NOW?", the more stupid you will look on those hotter than normal days in the summer. What's good for the goose, right?

December-March of this past year was BARELY colder than normal. Jan-Mar 2008 doesn't even rank in the top 50 coldest such periods in the record books. If you have to describe our winter in one word, it would be "average".

[Super Wayne]

jcf817 wrote:

I love how an April snowstorm brings out the GW-deniers. As if an April snowstorm is unusual or is an indication either way. Also, the more often you trot out the cries of, "How about your Global Warming NOW?", the more stupid you will look on those hotter than normal days in the summer. What's good for the goose, right?
December-March of this past year was BARELY colder than normal. Jan-Mar 2008 doesn't even rank in the top 50 coldest such periods in the record books. If you have to describe our winter in one word, it would be "average".

Not much more stupid looking then the GW believers who would blindly throw their money and that of everyone elses into the hands of bureaucrats sitting on top of biased scientists and claiming that the debate is over.

So yeah, what is good for the goose and all that. Why not? What matters is that the entire issue is starting to get scrutiny from the public. Be it real or fake thats not the issue. Its how do we react nationally and globally and to what extent, how much money and resources should we wager on the bet? When a society starts asking questions and requiring proof and holding people responsible, good things happen.

[JAdams]

jcf817 wrote:

I love how an April snowstorm brings out the GW-deniers. As if an April snowstorm is unusual or is an indication either way. Also, the more often you trot out the cries of, "How about your Global Warming NOW?", the more stupid you will look on those hotter than normal days in the summer. What's good for the goose, right?
December-March of this past year was BARELY colder than normal. Jan-Mar 2008 doesn't even rank in the top 50 coldest such periods in the record books. If you have to describe our winter in one word, it would be "average".

Ok I'm going back 10,000 years. What caused the galciers to melt?

[jcf817]

JAdams wrote:

<quoted text>
Ok I'm going back 10,000 years. What caused the galciers to melt?

Why are you asking me? I've never claimed GW was entirely anthropogenic. I'm merely pointing out how stupid the GW-deniers are by using one day/week/month/season/year of weather to try to prove their point.