TODAY'S HOT TOPIC: Ain't no Homo gonn...
For the record

Evansville, IN

#305 Jun 21, 2012
@For Real I have no way of knowing whether you are Gay or not and frankly it doesnt matter. Just note that if you are, anything I say is not meant in any way to offend, just to answer your question. God creates everyone and I frankly dont believe he creates anyone gay. I believe that as time goes on, it has become more socialy acceptable and by some even looked up to. Popular culture says it is normal to be Gay and that God greates some that way. But that is a dangerous notion in that if it is true someone can be created a murderer. Predisposed to kill, no choice. I believe our personalitys can be more violent, but does that mean it is right for someone to kill because it was created in them?

If this is correct, then murderers should be feel to kill who and when they want. A child molester should be able to sleep with kids. Dont be offended by my use of those examples. In social terms, there is a difference, but we must remember in the confines of a discussion of sin, they are equal to a liar.

I dont know what causes each individual to be gay. And I never will, none of us will. Other then they are acting on an un-natural desire for some reason. Just as any other sinful persuit. With some that i have talked to through the years, thier father were abusive scum that drove them to be closer to the mother and to hate and not want anything to do with a man. As they aged and sexual desires began to arise, the drew towards other females and were lesbian. After discussing this with her, she reached the conclussion that it was un natural and probably wouldnt have happened had her father not been how he was.

Basicly it is perversion, not meannt in a derogitory manner. Anything described as un natural is thereby labeled correctly or incorrectly as perversion. By context of scripture, it is a perversion in that it goes against what by Bible teachings and even nature itself says is natural.

We all understand the role of the male and female sex. Without either, we would cease to exist. It is in fact the natural order of things even by scientific standards. Just as I am sorry for my areas in my life where I am weak, I am sorry that you may in fact, or anyone has to battle it.

I do know that with any other sin, it can be forgiven. It may take extensive counseling just as with addicts etc......... When I used to abuse drugs, alcohol, and woman, you couldnt convince me I was wrong in doing it. It felt to good, to natural and to right. Just as I am sure that a homosexual individual feels nothing wrong with what they are doing.

Tough delima. It all boils down to this. If you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and that Homosexuality is ok, find a church that believe that way and live that life. In the end, it all comes down to judgement anyway and God will decide.

My personal belief is that it isnt right. But, it is just as wrong for good chritian folks to exclude gay individuals from thier Church. We are not the judge. If you are Gay and you choose to go to a mainline Christian Chruych though, you have to expect some judgement. Thats why I say search it out. First in your heart, if you think it is ok, find a Church that agrees. There is one more scripture to beware of as well, New International Version (©1984)
Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

That verse covers both sides of the road. To the one side, we are commanded to stop passing judgement. To the other side, If you are openly sinning in any way, or rather if you know some others believe we are, we should align ourselves with others that believe as WE do, not try to force our beliefs on others.

In summary, if you feel being Gay is ok, Align yourself with those who believe the same. In the end, it all comes down to an individual walk anyway. At judgement, you wont be jumping up and down saying "I Told You So" either way.
hwyangel

West Salem, OH

#306 Jun 21, 2012
For the record wrote:
@HwyAngel If they didnt believe in God, they wouldnt be here. I saw the video of the little boy, yes, he was crushed, but some in the crowd were cheering. Much as the folks were screaming, "Give us Barabass". Just shows that somethings never ever change. At one time, you were unsaved. Someone was able to reach you with Love. It is that same love we must have towards others. Or they may not be reached.Last point, by saying a Homosexual or any other person is not going to heaven, we make ourselves a judge, and we sin. Until that person, anyone closes thier eyes in death, we don't know who they are. Frankly, we arent even supposed to be trying to figure it out who they are. We can not, unless we at the same time sin ourself, making ourself just as guilty as they are.
I suppose if homosexuality was an identity rather than an action I could see your point.
For the record

Evansville, IN

#307 Jun 21, 2012
hwyangel wrote:
<quoted text>
I suppose if homosexuality was an identity rather than an action I could see your point.
Don't catch your point on this one. Could be this headache I got! LOL
hwyangel

West Salem, OH

#308 Jun 21, 2012
While many are saying that homosexuality should be accepted in the name of Christian love, such a position actually conflicts deeply with a coherent Christian view. Christians are not anti-liars (we simply affirm that lying is wrong), so we are not against people involved in homosexuality. It is clearly not a Christian virtue to hate anyone who sins. But it is Christian too oppose sin. Homosexuality is not a special sin deserving of special disdain, to anyone who prefers to live by his or her own rules, Christianity, particularly the Christian view of sex, is highly offensive to begin with. And I am not ashamed of mymy God and neither will I apologize.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#309 Jun 21, 2012
hwyangel wrote:
<quoted text>I suppose if homosexuality was an identity rather than an action I could see your point.
gays IDENTIFY as gays! So what are you talking about. It is an identity.
For the record

Evansville, IN

#310 Jun 21, 2012
hwyangel wrote:
While many are saying that homosexuality should be accepted in the name of Christian love, such a position actually conflicts deeply with a coherent Christian view. Christians are not anti-liars (we simply affirm that lying is wrong), so we are not against people involved in homosexuality. It is clearly not a Christian virtue to hate anyone who sins. But it is Christian too oppose sin. Homosexuality is not a special sin deserving of special disdain, to anyone who prefers to live by his or her own rules, Christianity, particularly the Christian view of sex, is highly offensive to begin with. And I am not ashamed of mymy God and neither will I apologize.
I never said it should be "accepted." The problem comes in when Christains exclude individuals from attending services until the "clean up first". That is what I was saying. We accept them, not the thing that we see as a sin. By opposing sin, we make ourself a judge and make it confrontational. We are ok if someone who smokes cigarrettes comes to service, but not a homosexual?

Just for the record, show me the scripture that says we are to oppose sin in the context where it is talking about others sins and not in the context of opposeing sin within ourselves!
hwyangel

West Salem, OH

#311 Jun 21, 2012
Here is a trucker analogy.

If I have a truck load of apples, a theif will take an apple.
If I give the theif an education, the theif will take the whole truck.
But when a theif believes that stealing is wrong, he may still take an apple but he he is no longer a theif. But a person who stole an apple.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#312 Jun 21, 2012
For the record wrote:
<quoted text>I never said it should be "accepted." The problem comes in when Christains exclude individuals from attending services until the "clean up first". That is what I was saying. We accept them, not the thing that we see as a sin. By opposing sin, we make ourself a judge and make it confrontational. We are ok if someone who smokes cigarrettes comes to service, but not a homosexual?

Just for the record, show me the scripture that says we are to oppose sin in the context where it is talking about others sins and not in the context of opposeing sin within ourselves!
I like you. We don't believe the same things, but it is nice to meet a genuine "good Christian". I will probably still debate you...but just wanted to throw that out there. ;)
For the record

Evansville, IN

#313 Jun 21, 2012
Thats not a scripture. But it reminds me of a story!

A small country stores freezer went out right after a shipment of ice cream for the summer social! The mayor called all the people togather to discuss how to save the ice cream. Many ideas were presented but to no avail! Finaly a young boy stood and said I have an idea, put it in the Church. "The Church" the Mayor replied,"why there"?
The young boy replied, "Well my om says the way people act there, it is the coldest place in town!"

Why, they judged, they condemned, the accused, they were cold. Christ was there when the woman was taken in adultery, he said "neither do I condemn thee, go they way and sin no more." Christ LOVED the sinner but hated the SIN. That is what we must do. You can not Love and be cold hard and callis towards someone who is just as imperfect as we are.

"We like looking at others sin because it's so much worse then ours we can feel good about ourself and maybe by helping this poor wayward soul God will overlook our sin" NEWS FLASH!! HE WON'T!!!
For the record

Evansville, IN

#314 Jun 21, 2012
@Wee Wee Through debate, we can all learn and grow!
hwyangel

West Salem, OH

#315 Jun 21, 2012
We are to tolerate all that is good (Amos 5:) and Jesus is said to hate wickedness.(Heb.1:9). The Bible also tells us to hate what is evil.(Rm.12:9). To fear the Lord is to hate evil.(Pr.8:13).
Yes, even in ourselves.

Christians are more and more called "hate mongers" not because we hate the sinner but merely because we hate the sin and speak out against the sin. Well,what's wrong with hating what is evil,with hating what is bad,with hating what is wrong? Are we supposed to love and embrace what is evil? If we love the sinner,let us not be shamed or embarrassed about hating the sin. America's most banned book still says, "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil."
For the record

Evansville, IN

#316 Jun 21, 2012
Getting offline maybe till tomorrow. Everyone be nice!
hwyangel

West Salem, OH

#317 Jun 21, 2012
I never said anything about "cleaning up first" or excluding anyone. All I said was that homosexuality is a sin.
hwyangel

West Salem, OH

#318 Jun 21, 2012
[Quote] "If you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and that Homosexuality is ok, find a church that believe that way and live that life." [Quote]

This is what I'm disagreeing with. Homosexuality is not ok according to the bible.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#319 Jun 21, 2012
hwyangel wrote:
[Quote] "If you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and that Homosexuality is ok, find a church that believe that way and live that life." [Quote]

This is what I'm disagreeing with. Homosexuality is not ok according to the bible.
So I wonder if you'd never read the bible if you would still feel that way.....or if these ideologies weren't around to cause so much discord and hate if all you would see is two people that love each other.....because at the end of the day....that's all it is.....two people in love who are committed to one another.....that's it....that's all.....no different than any other couple.....except it's seen through the eyes of people who feel the need to save other people......these people are going to go on and live their lives and find happiness and love......while the church lives on.....in oppression and self righteousness.....

Since: May 12

New Albany, IN

#320 Jun 21, 2012
hwyangel wrote:
[Quote] "If you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and that Homosexuality is ok, find a church that believe that way and live that life." [Quote]

This is what I'm disagreeing with. Homosexuality is not ok according to the bible.
neither is cutting your hair. JS
rocky horror

Jeffersonville, IN

#321 Jun 21, 2012
I can't wait till homo gets to heaven
For the record

Princeton, KY

#322 Jun 21, 2012
@HwyAngel. By your, and my interpretation Homosexuality is a sin. Not all believe that way. To arbitrarily assume that your or my interpretation is more correct then others, puts us in a combative state which helps no one. Some believe Homosexuality IS ok. Those are who I was speaking to in my statement you didnt like. My only point is, if one believes a way or another, they should assemble themselves with others who believe accordingly.

I know very few people who can hate sin without that hatred transfering to the person and not only the sin. We need to go back to the original topic for understanding. This little boy did not make that song up on the fly. Those hateful thoughts were planted there. He was taught by what he had heard and seen.

To many spend all thier time looking at others, as they interpret it, sin. Its easier then looking at thier own. Both of us have had the same stance on this issue with totaly different results. Why? By the way we present what we are saying. I freely admit that I am not perfect and have faults that I am working on, just like someone living a Homosexual lifestyle are struggling with what I interpret as sin.

Your approach is to call it sin. No more, no less. Little compassiuon. Little admission of short comings on your part. Then, when you were reacted upon, switched back to levitical Law and how men and woman dress, etc..... LOVE. That is the only way to reach anyone.

Then you pull out Amos 5, quote a very small portion of the LAW. The whole hate evil, love good statement is on a PERSONAL level. Just like salvation is, personal. Yes, Jesus HATES sin, but, He loves the sinner. And it is a good thing he does. Or, there wqould be no saints. For we are ALL SINNERS SAVED BY GRACE! For all have sinned and came short of the glory of God!
hwyangel

West Salem, OH

#323 Jun 21, 2012
This still doesn't make sense. The bible clearly says:
" Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders"

So the truth is that homosexuals will not go to heaven. So either a person believes in heaven and chooses to sin anyway, or doesnt believe in heaven. Obviously a person can not be offended by being told they will not go someplace they don't believe exists. You cant serve God and men, you cant mix Light and Dark and you cant be in the world and of God-thatís being on the fence and Lukewarm.

hwyangel

West Salem, OH

#324 Jun 21, 2012
I think youíll find that at no time does any scripture in the bible encourage believers to accept or support sin in any way.
There is something that I discovered long ago about my relationship with the Lord. I am not afforded the opportunity to re-define sin. In my mind, many sins might seem completely harmless, especially those which occur behind closed doors. Part of our relationship with the Lord is built on trust, and as a father warns his children of unseen dangers, God warns his people
While I do not support legalism, I do however believe, that when God establishes a way to be saved, I am not given the license, in my liberty, to develop my own personal philosophy apart from his word. We must be careful not to reduce Godís word to becoming simply suggestions, into which, we add our own personal opinion, or Ďour own take on things'. I have met some of the sweetest, most good natured Buddhists, Muslims and Homosexuals, there are. But I am not afforded the right to use my experiences, intelligence, earthly wisdom or opinions, to re-evaluate Godís definition of sin. If I would attempt this, I would actually be working against the ministry of the Holy Spirit who was sent to lead men to the truth.
God is not a God of empty and ever changing philosophies generated by the futility of manís thinking. His word is not subject to being dissected by the self proclaimed liberal, freethinking, open minded proponents of religious unification. He is the one who paid a great price so that His truth would be regarded above all, making liars of all others.

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