Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage

Aug 4, 2010 Full story: www.cnn.com 201,187

A federal judge in California has knocked down the state's voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage, ruling Wednesday that the state's controversial Proposition 8 violates the U.S. Constitution.

Full Story
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#183737 Mar 18, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not about "other people's sexuality", but rather what is in the best interest of society as a whole. Legally redefining marriage undermines that. If SSM was an integral part of human societal organization and structure it would have appeared long before now, and would have deep sustained historical roots. It does not. It does demonstrate the extent to which marriage has declined both in the U.S., and in the West.
Will you PLEASE learn something about logic. You make statemnts WITHOUT any proof. "...it would have appeared long before now..." is meaningless. If women should have the right to vote, why didn't our country start out that way?
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#183738 Mar 18, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it is the only reason marriage is recognized in the first place. Any other reason is secondary to that. Now before you start ranting about the infertile, elderly, and other possible non procreative pairings being married, as somehow proof that marriage isn't about procreation, or the state still allows them to marry.....remember it doesn't change the fact that human reproduction is sexual .
You think it is the only reason???? Well ain't it just too bad that YOU don't get to make that determination for the State? There are many other reasons: longer life, better health, reduced crime, and it promotes financial independence. And these SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN benefits occur whether or not there are children involved.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#183740 Mar 18, 2013
Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
We have a already been over this, you already lost
Procreation is not any kind of requirement for a marriage, not in intent or ability.
The loss here Big D is your argument, that lack of a requirement to procreate, somehow means marriage isn't about procreation, or that procreation isn't the reason marriage is recognized in the first place.
There is not a single law that disallows a couple to marry based on whether they have the ability or intention to have children.
Please point out the law, case law, or presumption within marriage law, that specifically references the same sex sexual union, male or female?
You want me to run you thought the ringer on this one again?
Give your best shot there Big D.....as in Dee Ny Al
yeah yeah

AOL

#183741 Mar 18, 2013
ok now lets legalize cannabis. nationwide!

chťck one two thrťť
Big D

Modesto, CA

#183742 Mar 18, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
The loss here Big D is your argument, that lack of a requirement to procreate, somehow means marriage isn't about procreation, or that procreation isn't the reason marriage is recognized in the first place.
<quoted text>
Please point out the law, case law, or presumption within marriage law, that specifically references the same sex sexual union, male or female?
<quoted text>
Give your best shot there Big D.....as in Dee Ny Al
I already have kid

No one, in any state, or any country ( that I am aware of ) will deny a marriage license to a couple based on their intent or ability to have children.

dead argument

Procreation is not any kind of pre-requisite for marriage

point... set and match... that argument is dead

It already failed in court and appellate court and will undoubtedly not be used in the Supreme court as it is a dead ( and very lame ) argument, there is no precedent anywhere.

But.. if you do find some country somewhere that will deny a marriage license to a couple that wants to be married because of their intent or ability to have children, I suggest you move there.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#183743 Mar 18, 2013
Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
I already have kid
Ya did? I must have blinked.
No one, in any state, or any country ( that I am aware of ) will deny a marriage license to a couple based on their intent or ability to have children.
dead argument
Silly Big D, you're confusing lack of a requirement with purpose. Its understandable, for you to admit it would undermine your whole argument. So you cling the this notion that as along as procreation is not required, it must not be about procreation.

If procreation is not an issue, why prohibit brother and sister from marrying? Oh I know, beacuse they might have sex, AND, create a child, who grows up, and posts on internet fourms under the moniker of "Big D". Now THAT makes sense.
Procreation is not any kind of pre-requisite for marriage
point... set and match... that argument is dead
It already failed in court and appellate court and will undoubtedly not be used in the Supreme court as it is a dead ( and very lame ) argument, there is no precedent anywhere.
But.. if you do find some country somewhere that will deny a marriage license to a couple that wants to be married because of their intent or ability to have children, I suggest you move there.
Thatta boy, you keep that going, I'm sure all those court cases specifically linking marriage and procreation, are just meaningless to the all great and powerful Big D. It must be lonely up on that mountain....I'm sure there's the occasionally sheep that happens along to keep you company.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#183744 Mar 18, 2013
And before you try to respond, we are not talking about reasons for a divorce, you can get a divorce for no reason at all ( irreconcilable differences ) all it takes is for one party to want a divorce and it can be over eating crackers in bed.

we are talking about the denial of a marriage license to a couple that both want one.

Intent or ability to have children is NOT and has NEVER been a pre-requisite for them to obtain a marriage license. You wonít be able to find a single case where the state denied the license based on their intent or ability to have children.

It is a dead argument
Deficiets

La Puente, CA

#183745 Mar 18, 2013
Did I mention that Steve Herfert of West Covina, California city councilman who used offensive RACISTS language live during a Feburary 05, 2013 city council meeting and is a life long hardcore GOP, Republican an Tea Party Member.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#183746 Mar 18, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya did? I must have blinked.
<quoted text>
Silly Big D, you're confusing lack of a requirement with purpose. Its understandable, for you to admit it would undermine your whole argument. So you cling the this notion that as along as procreation is not required, it must not be about procreation.
If procreation is not an issue, why prohibit brother and sister from marrying? Oh I know, beacuse they might have sex, AND, create a child, who grows up, and posts on internet fourms under the moniker of "Big D". Now THAT makes sense.
<quoted text>
Thatta boy, you keep that going, I'm sure all those court cases specifically linking marriage and procreation, are just meaningless to the all great and powerful Big D. It must be lonely up on that mountain....I'm sure there's the occasionally sheep that happens along to keep you company.
I donít lack anything, and you cannot find one case where a state refused a marriage license to a couple that both wanted one based on their intent or ability to have children.

You know you cannot win the argument ( as it is crystal clear to anyone ) so you go onto personal attacks.

It is easy to tell when you have one an argument with a child, they cannot stand up to what you say, so they go after either how you say it, or you personally.

I agree, the argument is over and done.

Donít worry I will be here to remind you any time you use that incredibly lame argument

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#183748 Mar 18, 2013
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
You think it is the only reason????
C'mon XBox, use your head for something other than a hat rack. Remove the sexual procreative aspect of the marital relationship, and what else is there to generate a compelling state interest? Why prohibit blood relatives from marrying? Its because they might have sex, and make a baby, named Xavier Breath....just kidding.
Well ain't it just too bad that YOU don't get to make that determination for the State?
That reason was made long before you, or I were born. Do you think its a fluke that SSM never, other than a few scattered historical examples, existed before in the West, or around the globe for that matter?
There are many other reasons: longer life, better health, reduced crime, and it promotes financial independence. And these SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN benefits occur whether or not there are children involved.
Scientifically proven on untold numerous studies conducted on husbands AND wives. There's not sufficient numbers or studies to conclusively prove such studies are applicable to SSM, male or female. If a study shows that married men live longer because of their wife, would that study be applicable to a female SSC? Male SSC? What about plural marriage? If what you are saying is true, there's no reason not to allow that. It would benefit plural marriage practioners too.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#183749 Mar 18, 2013
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
Will you PLEASE learn something about logic. You make statemnts WITHOUT any proof. "...it would have appeared long before now..." is meaningless.
Why is that meaningless? Same sex sexual behavior is not new, so why hasn't it translated into a SSM culture/structure across time and place, before now?
If women should have the right to vote, why didn't our country start out that way?
The right to vote is an indiovidual right. It doesn't require a person vote in conjunction with anyone else, in order for the right to be exercised. The right to marry is the right to enter into a legally sanctioned relationship, regulated, and defined, by the state. A person can claim s/he has the right to marry,(________one than one husband/wife, his/her brother or sister, etc.), but its up to the state as to whether or not such claim is valid.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#183750 Mar 18, 2013
Big D wrote:
And before you try to respond, we are not talking about reasons for a divorce, you can get a divorce for no reason at all ( irreconcilable differences ) all it takes is for one party to want a divorce and it can be over eating crackers in bed.
we are talking about the denial of a marriage license to a couple that both want one.
Intent or ability to have children is NOT and has NEVER been a pre-requisite for them to obtain a marriage license. You wonít be able to find a single case where the state denied the license based on their intent or ability to have children.
It is a dead argument
That's what it is! Your mother and father were brother and sister. That's why you vehemently deny that procreation and marriage are linked. Of course there's no requirement to procreate in order to get married. Why would there be? Not every opposite sex couple can have, or will have coital sexual intercourse, and/or procreated, or choose to procreate. But we do know that certain pairings that might have sexual intercourse and/or procreate, are barred from obtaining a license. Ya know it makes sense, your Mom and Dad are siblings. Oh the humanity.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#183751 Mar 18, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what it is! Your mother and father were brother and sister. That's why you vehemently deny that procreation and marriage are linked. Of course there's no requirement to procreate in order to get married. Why would there be? Not every opposite sex couple can have, or will have coital sexual intercourse, and/or procreated, or choose to procreate. But we do know that certain pairings that might have sexual intercourse and/or procreate, are barred from obtaining a license. Ya know it makes sense, your Mom and Dad are siblings. Oh the humanity.
Yes, a child always attacks the person when they cannot stand up to the argument.

I agree, you totally lost that argument... again

Do yourself a favor, donít bring that lame argument up again, it will just be trounced again.

The intent or ability to have children has NEVER been a pre-requisite to marry. You cannot find a case where a marriage license was refused because the couple that wanted to marry did not intend, or have the ability to have children.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#183752 Mar 18, 2013
Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, a child always attacks the person when they cannot stand up to the argument.
I agree, you totally lost that argument... again
Do yourself a favor, donít bring that lame argument up again, it will just be trounced again.
The intent or ability to have children has NEVER been a pre-requisite to marry. You cannot find a case where a marriage license was refused because the couple that wanted to marry did not intend, or have the ability to have children.
Once again you confuse, requirement with purpose. The lack of a desire, or ability, to procreate, does not undermine, the primary functional purpose of marriage, we both know this. That is why you will not, or perhaps cannot, acknowledge this. So you continue to drone on about a lack of a requirement, because it allows you, in your own mind, some sort of platform to advocate for same sex marriage.

SSM is a virtually new western invention, largely in societies where marriage rates are declining, out of wedlock birthrates are increasing, and, cohabitiation rates are rising. But of course the same folks who scream, "biogot" at any opposition to SSM, are usually the ones who will demonstrate bigotry themselves against other alternative marriage forms, namely polygamy/plural marriage.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#183753 Mar 18, 2013
No you are confusing it

Marriage is not only about having children, if it is in your religion, fine, but no one else has to conform to your religion.

We are talking about law here, law that applies to everyone, not just people that believe in this god or that god or one book or another.

The law does not, and never has made the intent or ability to have children a pre-requisite for getting a marriage license

You want to put that on a ballot, go ahead, it will fail, but it will put in the spotlight people that have your opinion and the way you want to degrade every marriage where someone could not or chose not to have children.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#183754 Mar 18, 2013
Big D wrote:
No you are confusing it
Marriage is not only about having children,
True, but that's the reason why it exists in the first place, and the compelling state interest in it. If that is not a compelling state interest, it does not matter who marries who.
if it is in your religion, fine, but no one else has to conform to your religion.
I have not mentioned religion.
We are talking about law here, law that applies to everyone, not just people that believe in this god or that god or one book or another.
True, it applies to all men and women equally, regardless of religious belief, or lack of a religious belief.
The law does not, and never has made the intent or ability to have children a pre-requisite for getting a marriage license.
That is correct, however the law, at least in 32 plus states, requires that people seeking the license be of the opposite sex. The law takes into account, although it is not a requirement, husband and wife will have sexual relations, and the marriage will be consumated. The law also presumes the husband to be the father of any children born within the martial relationship.
You want to put that on a ballot, go ahead, it will fail, but it will put in the spotlight people that have your opinion and the way you want to degrade every marriage where someone could not or chose not to have children.
Those who cannot, or choose not, to have children do not degrade thier own, nor the marriages of any other husband and wife. Quite the contrary, such marriages reinforce the conjugal nature of the martial relationship, and what that nature produces, children. Even those husbands and wives who choose not to, nor cannot, have children are still they themselves, the products of a male female union.

Even you Big D have a mother and father, as does every human on this planet. Marriage is society's means of connecting men, women, and their children. Its not a self esteem program for adults.
Shame WC SCE

La Puente, CA

#183755 Mar 18, 2013
Steve Herfert a local city councilman from West Covina, California and a employee of Southern California Edison, appears to have been a long time racists.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#183756 Mar 18, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
True, but that's the reason why it exists in the first place, and the compelling state interest in it. If that is not a compelling state interest, it does not matter who marries who.
<quoted text>
I have not mentioned religion.
<quoted text>
True, it applies to all men and women equally, regardless of religious belief, or lack of a religious belief.
<quoted text>
That is correct, however the law, at least in 32 plus states, requires that people seeking the license be of the opposite sex. The law takes into account, although it is not a requirement, husband and wife will have sexual relations, and the marriage will be consumated. The law also presumes the husband to be the father of any children born within the martial relationship.
<quoted text>
Those who cannot, or choose not, to have children do not degrade thier own, nor the marriages of any other husband and wife. Quite the contrary, such marriages reinforce the conjugal nature of the martial relationship, and what that nature produces, children. Even those husbands and wives who choose not to, nor cannot, have children are still they themselves, the products of a male female union.
Even you Big D have a mother and father, as does every human on this planet. Marriage is society's means of connecting men, women, and their children. Its not a self esteem program for adults.
NO, that may be the reasons your marriage exists ( 8in which case I feel very very sorry for your wife ), but it sure was not the reason for mine. You donít get to define what everyone elseís marriage is about.

I know people who married later in life, I know people that married with no intent of having children, I know people that married without the ability to have children

and you think their marriages is less than others are.. you are wrong... dead wrong, and a VAST majority of Americans will agree with me on that.

The intent or ability to have children is NOT and has NEVER been a requirement to get a marrage license.

I donít give a darn about tradition, I certainly donít give a darn about what you think is important. I donít have to run every marriage past you for approval, you have no authority.

Marriage is about 2 people making a promise, to become partners in their lives, it is about love, and respect and a commitment to one another.

EVERYTHING else is secondary.

Religion is unnecessary ( people of any religion or no religion are treated equally in the eyes of the law )

Tradition is unnecessary ( people can have a cerymony, or not, as they choose )

Children are not a requirement ( no law will automatically decree a dissolution of a marriage based on intent or ability to have children, one of the parties has to WANT a divorce, and then any reason works, including eating crackers in bed )
Shame WC SCE

La Puente, CA

#183757 Mar 18, 2013
Doesn't get anybetter than the racist city councilmember known as Steve Herfert of West Covina, California.

Get off the city council you fool.

And Southern California Edison employed him too.

Since: Apr 11

North Hollywood, CA

#183758 Mar 18, 2013
akpilot wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't attack anyone for their position on gay marriage.
That's obvious BS. Why even bother?
akpilot wrote:
I know that you feel attacked because I point out your ignorance, but that has nothing to do with your position on this issue.
In fact, it is the side of me that is in favor of same sex marriage that wishes you would shut up, you certainly aren't helping the cause with your ignorant nonsense.
LOL. There you go again!
I don't wish you'd shut up, I like laughing at you.

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