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Need to know

Chesapeake, OH

#1 Feb 18, 2013
How does a person learn what they are legally allowed to do if self defense is needed. For instance, someone is robbing your home, or if someone attacks you while you are stopped at a redlight, or if someone is breaking into your garage to steal your four wheelers? Is it legal to shoot someone for breaking into your garage and is stealing from you? Every state seems to have a different Set of laws. Do I have the right to protect myself and my property using lethal force in these situations. There are a lot of bad people out there. Where can I learn these laws and tactics?
yes

Hansford, WV

#2 Feb 18, 2013
Need to know wrote:
How does a person learn what they are legally allowed to do if self defense is needed. For instance, someone is robbing your home, or if someone attacks you while you are stopped at a redlight, or if someone is breaking into your garage to steal your four wheelers? Is it legal to shoot someone for breaking into your garage and is stealing from you? Every state seems to have a different Set of laws. Do I have the right to protect myself and my property using lethal force in these situations. There are a lot of bad people out there. Where can I learn these laws and tactics?
Castle doctrine pertains to personal property.. Vehicles, garages, or personal harm anywhere... Just make sure if u decide to shoot make sure u aim to kill!
Lycan

Huntington, IN

#3 Feb 18, 2013
No it is not lawful to shoot someone because they are engaged in property damage or theft. Being physically attacked can be justifiable depending on the detials of the situation. But if you are talking about a random unarmed physical confrontation, in most situations, no. In any event where you do feel threatened with life, and there is not a way out or avoiding, then yes. Even still you have to be able to prove it. And then a jury would either agree or disagree. Conviction could range from manslaughter with restitution and probation to homocide 2nd with prison time 10-15. There are too many variables to consider in lethal self-defense.
Well

Charleston, WV

#4 Feb 18, 2013
Lycan wrote:
No it is not lawful to shoot someone because they are engaged in property damage or theft. Being physically attacked can be justifiable depending on the detials of the situation. But if you are talking about a random unarmed physical confrontation, in most situations, no. In any event where you do feel threatened with life, and there is not a way out or avoiding, then yes. Even still you have to be able to prove it. And then a jury would either agree or disagree. Conviction could range from manslaughter with restitution and probation to homocide 2nd with prison time 10-15. There are too many variables to consider in lethal self-defense.
Castle Doctrine

West Virginia has a self-defense law based on the castle doctrine, and is a “stand your ground” state, meaning persons under attack do not have a duty to retreat before using physical or deadly force.

The state’s statute specifies that deadly force can be used within the home or in any place a person has a legal right to be. However, the force must be proportionate and there must be a belief that the attacker or intruder may kill or cause serious bodily harm to oneself or others. Within the home, physical or deadly force can also be used, proportionately, to prevent a felony from being committed.
Nope

Warfordsburg, PA

#5 Feb 18, 2013
The Castle Doctrine does not include personal property, vehicles, or garages and sheds. It “only” pertains to the vehicle or structure you rightfully own and are occupying at the time of said attack. And even then the assailant has had to attempt forcibly entry. The Castle Doctrine does not include trespassing, or theft.
Lycan

Huntington, IN

#6 Feb 18, 2013
Ok class let`s try it agian...

No, it is not lawful to shoot someone BECAUSE they are engaged in property damage or theft. Being physically attacked can be justifiable depending on the detials of the situation. There are too many variables to consider in lethal self-defense.

The original poster ran the scenerio from being attacked in thier car to someone breaking in the garage. There are too many variables to consider.
Need to know

Chesapeake, OH

#7 Feb 18, 2013
Scenario 1> you visualize an intruder in your garage. You get your weapon and go into the garage to confront the assailent. The assailent the reaches for something in his pocket, Shoot or not shoot? Sceanrio 2> you see a home invader in your house. You can't tell if he is armed. He is obviously someone you don't know and he is obviously attempting to rob your house. Shoot or not shoot?
Zaphod

Chesapeake, OH

#8 Feb 18, 2013
Need to know wrote:
Scenario 1> you visualize an intruder in your garage. You get your weapon and go into the garage to confront the assailent. The assailent the reaches for something in his pocket, Shoot or not shoot? Sceanrio 2> you see a home invader in your house. You can't tell if he is armed. He is obviously someone you don't know and he is obviously attempting to rob your house. Shoot or not shoot?
Call the cops. If you go out to your garage to confront the thief you can be charged. Especially if they're unarmed.
Lycan

Huntington, IN

#9 Feb 18, 2013
Need to know wrote:
Scenario 1> you visualize an intruder in your garage. You get your weapon and go into the garage to confront the assailent. The assailent the reaches for something in his pocket, Shoot or not shoot?
You establish there is a tresspasser in your garage. You engage and confront said person. They appear to pull something out of thier pocket. You shoot.

Now you have to prove how this person was a threat to you in court. Both Castle Doctrine and Stand your Ground does not pertain to leaving your house and shooting someone in the garage. In your scenerio you never established a physical or verbal threat either.
Lycan

Huntington, IN

#10 Feb 18, 2013
Need to know wrote:
Sceanrio 2> you see a home invader in your house. You can't tell if he is armed. He is obviously someone you don't know and he is obviously attempting to rob your house. Shoot or not shoot?
Agian you are in a scenerio that has you engaging a tresspasser. The legallity of self-defense in both Stand your ground and Castle doctrine is that you don`t need to leave your house or car when attacked and you already physically occupping said location. If you came home and walked in on an intruder it would be easy to argue that a physical confrontation ensued that led you to believe you were at a threat of life. But it isn`t protected by self-defense in either Castle or Stand your ground.
Well

Charleston, WV

#11 Feb 18, 2013
What part of this did you not understand?

This is what The Castle Doctrine states:

Castle Doctrine

West Virginia has a self-defense law based on the castle doctrine, and is a “stand your ground” state, meaning persons under attack do not have a duty to retreat before using physical or deadly force.

The state’s statute specifies that deadly force can be used within the home or in ANY place a person has a legal right to be. However, the force must be proportionate and there must be a belief that the attacker or intruder may kill or cause serious bodily harm to oneself or others. Within the home, physical or deadly force can also be used, proportionately, to prevent a felony from being committed
----------

Deadly force CAN BE USED within the home OR IN ANY PLACE a person has a legal right to be....

That could be walking down the street.

Also...

Within the home, physical or DEADLY force CAN also be used, proportionately, to prevent a FELONY from being committed.
Zaphod

Chesapeake, OH

#12 Feb 18, 2013
Well wrote:
What part of this did you not understand?

This is what The Castle Doctrine states:

Castle Doctrine

West Virginia has a self-defense law based on the castle doctrine, and is a “stand your ground” state, meaning persons under attack do not have a duty to retreat before using physical or deadly force.

The stateÂ’s statute specifies that deadly force can be used within the home or in ANY place a person has a legal right to be. However, the force must be proportionate and there must be a belief that the attacker or intruder may kill or cause serious bodily harm to oneself or others. Within the home, physical or deadly force can also be used, proportionately, to prevent a felony from being committed
----------

Deadly force CAN BE USED within the home OR IN ANY PLACE a person has a legal right to be....

That could be walking down the street.

Also...

Within the home, physical or DEADLY force CAN also be used, proportionately, to prevent a FELONY from being committed.
You have to be in danger genius. If you go out from your home to your garage you are intentionally putting yourself in the situation. You would not be using self defense.
Well

Charleston, WV

#13 Feb 18, 2013
Zaphod wrote:
<quoted text>
You have to be in danger genius. If you go out from your home to your garage you are intentionally putting yourself in the situation. You would not be using self defense.
Within the home, physical or deadly force can also be used, proportionately, to prevent a felony from being committed.

Your garage is considered part of your house.
Zaphod

Chesapeake, OH

#14 Feb 18, 2013
Well wrote:
<quoted text>Within the home, physical or deadly force can also be used, proportionately, to prevent a felony from being committed.

Your garage is considered part of your house.
Forgery is a felony. Do you think you could murder someone in your garage for forging a check on your work bench?
Lycan

Huntington, IN

#15 Feb 18, 2013
The Castle Doctrine and the Stand Your Ground Law, are ONLY in effect to protect VICTIMS from counter suit and charges when they envoke self-defense. Lethal or not.
If you leave your house, if you exit your car, to engage or confront... You are not protected by self defense. End of chapter 1.
Self defense can be extended if you leave your house, or exit your car to defend another person directly being attacked. End of chapter 2.
If you believe you are witnessing a crime in progress and no one is in danger. You call 911 and the dispatcher will tell you exactly what they told Zimmerman "Stay on the line and FOR YOUR SAFETY Do not engage".
tracker

Rupert, WV

#16 Feb 18, 2013
well if they are in your house or on your property and you didnt invite them. i say they didnt just show up to play cards and drink coffee. protect your self any way you can. people that come to your home with an invite are only up for no good.
tracker

Rupert, WV

#17 Feb 18, 2013
* with out* sorry about that
Well

Charleston, WV

#18 Feb 18, 2013
Lycan wrote:
The Castle Doctrine and the Stand Your Ground Law, are ONLY in effect to protect VICTIMS from counter suit and charges when they envoke self-defense. Lethal or not.
If you leave your house, if you exit your car, to engage or confront... You are not protected by self defense. End of chapter 1.
Self defense can be extended if you leave your house, or exit your car to defend another person directly being attacked. End of chapter 2.
If you believe you are witnessing a crime in progress and no one is in danger. You call 911 and the dispatcher will tell you exactly what they told Zimmerman "Stay on the line and FOR YOUR SAFETY Do not engage".
Well there Genius, then what exactly does this mean?

'Within the home, physical or deadly force can also be used, proportionately, to prevent a felony from being committed.'

Courts have upheld time and time again that the 'home' is considered anything in and around your home including your garage and property thereon.

You CAN you PROPORTIONATELY DEADLY FORCE to prevent a FELONY from occurring on your property.

Check mate, point.

End of story.
Lycan

Huntington, IN

#19 Feb 19, 2013
tracker wrote:
well if they are in your house or on your property and you didnt invite them. i say they didnt just show up to play cards and drink coffee. protect your self any way you can. people that come to your home with an invite are only up for no good.
In your house, as in breaking an entry? Yes. Otherwise you are not protected by self-defense for just a tresspasser. Sorry but I didn`t write the law. Shoot em if you want, just place a knife in their dead hand and sprinkle some crack on thier lip. Make sure you tell the police he verbally threatened your life.
Lycan

Huntington, IN

#20 Feb 19, 2013
Well wrote:
<quoted text>
Well there Genius, then what exactly does this mean?
'Within the home, physical or deadly force can also be used, proportionately, to prevent a felony from being committed.'
What that means is if there is a crime in progress on your privately owned property that is a felony then you would be protected to use force with-in reason. Escalation to deadly force is not always protected. Breaking an entry is a felony. Tresspassing is not. There is also property damage and theft that specifically constitutes as a felony and there is property damage and theft that do not.
Just like there are rules and laws governing our highways, they only pertain to motorists assuming they are in an approved vehicle.
So there are laws that pertain to the use of lethal force, only if they are sanctioned by self-defense.
Everything about Stand your ground and Castle Doctrine pertain to self defense.

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