Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 166294 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#85656 Aug 14, 2012
Seems they need to teach history again, Amen there apparently has never studied the Age of Enlightenment. Nor read the works of Thomas Hobbs and John Locke.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#85658 Aug 15, 2012
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
....Carbon Dating only dates back about 50,000 years but there are Dozens of other methods that can date back billions of years... Heres a partial short list ..
Add to your list the speed of light, as we are able to observe the cosmos and see what is described as the past. At least in the terms of the stars and other objects in the "visible" universe, the light we see from our planet from those objects has taken millions and for some billions of years to reach us. Scripture translated into english says day one the universe, earth and so on. Then all the other days are, by some, said to be 24 hour periods of time just like the first day. This is where a paradox is created for me in this idealogy, why would a creator, God, intentionally create a deceptive universe? Not to pull out quotes, but it is written that the heavens do not lie and God's Word is in all of nature. So there is one more point in support to Q in this matter.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#85659 Aug 15, 2012
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? Evolution has never been proven not even close... To say natural selection has proven change of species is just a flat out lie from an idiot... Without magic and lots of it your ape man theory falls on it's ass every time...
'Proof' is in the eye of the beholder. There is evidence of species change through natural selection. If the evidence is not enough to prove it to you, that is fine, but it is enough for the whole of the scientific community and thus is in science books as such.
I think no amount of evidence would suffice for you as proof.

Just as with the phrase 'scientific theory' the word 'proof' and 'evidence' seems to be beyond your comprehension.

There is zero evidence of a god, yet you feel there is proof of a god. Ironic that even though evolution has mountains of evidence, none of it is proof in your eyes.
You have double standards.

The AIDS virus is good evidence of evolution one can see in real time.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#85660 Aug 15, 2012
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
The only thing Obama has accomplished is getting the toys out of the happymeals...
So you have no substantive rebuttal to my claim, so you spew crap like this? I see.
I win.

Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Obama saved America from a depression. The economy was in a steep downward spiral. Now it is relatively stable. I see you are so partisan you cannot give Obama credit for saving our economy Bush put us into.

And is the president not allowed to play? Must he work 24/7? He is a human. Humans need play for optimal health. Do you wish for our leader to be dysfunctional?

You are just full of Fox news talking points with no substance. Blind sheep.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#85661 Aug 15, 2012
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text>are you saying that you know that there is no Being that could possibly be defined as God and that exists? I am still waiting for a reply from the hard atheist types to my proposed definition of an Actual God. God is another name for all that exists. That is less specific even than Spinoza's view, and does not specify materialism or idealism or a combination of both. it is a varient of pantheism. do you object to that? if so, on what grounds? just curious how you react.
You may as well say god is a flying spaghetti monster.
The god most argue is myth by us atheists is the god of the bible and Koran. You know this,.... we all know this.
We argue the flawed ideas that come from such beliefs.
Kathleen

San Francisco, CA

#85662 Aug 15, 2012
I can't believe this is even an issue- of course teach the bible in school- if for no other reason than it is the basis of our culture, it could also be taught as history, as the bible is the most accurate historial work from ancient times. You want to teach evolution- a faith based belief - and call it science! You want to allow tolerance for other beliefs, then how can you justify blocking the belief system of 75% of the popualtion? This is absurd. Take a look to the right of this comment column- what do you see? the horoscope- a faith baaed system - now called 'new age' but really very old age- from Babylonia originally- and no one is screaming about it- wake up Americans before you lose your country and your heritage.

Satanic Priest

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#85663 Aug 15, 2012
Kathleen wrote:
I can't believe this is even an issue- of course teach the bible in school- if for no other reason than it is the basis of our culture, it could also be taught as history, as the bible is the most accurate historial work from ancient times. You want to teach evolution- a faith based belief - and call it science! You want to allow tolerance for other beliefs, then how can you justify blocking the belief system of 75% of the popualtion? This is absurd. Take a look to the right of this comment column- what do you see? the horoscope- a faith baaed system - now called 'new age' but really very old age- from Babylonia originally- and no one is screaming about it- wake up Americans before you lose your country and your heritage.
As long as every religion gets to teach their beliefs as fact. Our society and culture is based on freedom, not the christian cult and only about 40% of Americans and 25% of the world are christian.
Evolution is a scientific theory and is taught as such, your cult tries to push your belief as fact, that is the difference. Stop trying to lie about things, we are smarter than you are and see through it.
Believer

Jamestown, KY

#85664 Aug 15, 2012
Kathleen wrote:
I can't believe this is even an issue- of course teach the bible in school- if for no other reason than it is the basis of our culture, it could also be taught as history, as the bible is the most accurate historial work from ancient times. You want to teach evolution- a faith based belief - and call it science! You want to allow tolerance for other beliefs, then how can you justify blocking the belief system of 75% of the popualtion? This is absurd. Take a look to the right of this comment column- what do you see? the horoscope- a faith baaed system - now called 'new age' but really very old age- from Babylonia originally- and no one is screaming about it- wake up Americans before you lose your country and your heritage.
Amen. When I was going to school all of our school rooms had a Bible, how you could go to jail, get fired, expelled or forced to get counseling for that.

Satanic Priest

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#85665 Aug 15, 2012
Amen wrote:
Yes they should teach the Bible in schools but also as a Christian I do believe it would be a good thing to teach at the middle and high school age level but you have to give these children Christians do believe that religion can't be forced upon anyone. Offer the classes if the children want to take the bible classes then let them but dot force them too take them they already make the children study religions so why not give them the choice to study the religion our country was founded on in depth and what it really means to be a Christian and to live that kind of live. Of the children of the world were taught about Jesus and had the choice everyday to accept him as thier savior instead of just on Sunday's and wednesdays(and that's only if thier parents take them to church) well then maybe this world could Change and be a better place. A place where you felt safe like you use to
I am grateful that Americas forefathers saw the need to protect the vast majority from looney tunes like you

Since: Feb 12

El Dorado Hills, CA

#85666 Aug 15, 2012
Kathleen wrote:
I can't believe this is even an issue- of course teach the bible in school- if for no other reason than it is the basis of our culture, it could also be taught as history, as the bible is the most accurate historial work from ancient times. You want to teach evolution- a faith based belief - and call it science! You want to allow tolerance for other beliefs, then how can you justify blocking the belief system of 75% of the popualtion? This is absurd. Take a look to the right of this comment column- what do you see? the horoscope- a faith baaed system - now called 'new age' but really very old age- from Babylonia originally- and no one is screaming about it- wake up Americans before you lose your country and your heritage.
Last I heard it's called Sunday School. Churches get a tax exemption for brain washing young minds every saturday or sunday.

Beside we do have preachers that preach hell-fire sermons to students all over the country including public schools.

Brother Micah at public school.

&fe ature=related
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85667 Aug 15, 2012
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You may as well say god is a flying spaghetti monster.
The god most argue is myth by us atheists is the god of the bible and Koran. You know this,.... we all know this.
We argue the flawed ideas that come from such beliefs.
I disagree that pantheism (God is all that exists) is similar to making up another fictional character. The All that Is clearly exists. The fault is in the making up of a definition that few people would consider to be similar to anything they think of as being God.(But it is similar to Spinoza's view, which was a deeply philosophical and intelligent and daring view for his time and place)

Of course the God that is discussed on topix is mostly the Biblical one, but I do not think everyone on topix thinks of God as the Biblical-Koran-Torah God. And when atheists on topix write that there is no God, that is not the same thing as asserting that they think the God of the Bible is ridiculous. If it is to be assumed that the only version of God one is discussing is the Yahweh God, then one is being locally loyal, to one's tribal God (however big the tribe), and not philosophical.

To be philosophical would require a clear definition of what the God is, or what all the Gods are (perhaps a list from the godcheck site, plus a good philosophical dictionary listing and historical listing of all gods asserted by anyone ever). The believer would have it easier, in saying that he believes in one of them. The unbeliever would be required to state that he believes in none of them - and even then would perhaps have missed some suggested definition of a god or God from some other time or place. That is why I usually state that I do not believe in any of the gods that I have ever heard about or read about or thought about.

Furthermore, the clear conclusion that the God of the Bible is no good, is not proof that it does not exist. I think the universe if created by a powerful creator was likely created by a very flawed character, and the Biblical God is a very flawed character.
Luckily I do not believe that it was created by a creator, else I would be afraid - not because I am a bad person, but because it is a bad God, not to be trusted.

I just have a wider reach in my discussion than most folks here, because of having read so much philosophy both for pleasure and as a minor in college, and because of thinking through the issues in a philosophical way - free of religious indoctrination, and free of local social pressure.

I still do not understand why so many atheists even here, who focus on the Biblical God, are so assertive about it not existing, and their knowing it does not exist. That goes to another philosophical question, about what is knowledge, what is proof, what is evidence - and I think they fail to prove their assertion.
But it is clearly a rotten God, and discussing that is endlessly worthwhile. Every rotten aspect attributed to God in the Bible or by any preacher or supporter or worshipper should be subject to attack - including every rotten statement, commandment, attribute,
action, attitude, whatever.

Furthermore the consequences of believing in such a rotten God are very important, and well worth discussing. It can lead to horrible attitudes and behavior on the part of believers. The role of true believers in history is well worth discussing - the Inquisition, religious wars, persecutions of various types in various places and times.

Why is its non-existence, which is iffier, the focus, instead of its evil, which is evident to any decent openminded person?
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85668 Aug 15, 2012
Spaceship earth wrote:
<quoted text>
Last I heard it's called Sunday School. Churches get a tax exemption for brain washing young minds every saturday or sunday.
Beside we do have preachers that preach hell-fire sermons to students all over the country including public schools.
Brother Micah at public school.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =ec4E2Ei_3NIXX&feature=rel ated
would you please read my comment just above?

I realize that on this particular forum one is discussing the Biblical and Christian God - since that is the one these folks are trying to get inserted into the public schools. But if there are highly intelligent skeptics on this thread, it is such a waste to just feud with stupid rightwing fundies all the time, and not use our minds to discuss the important political philosophy aspects, the historical reasons for separation of church and state, and the rational thought processes and subject matter that non-believers take into consideration.
The fluff of backandforth insults with fundies is not particularly a credit to the degree of our intelligence, and not a particularly good use of our time, in my view. Why waste the acquaintance with excellent thinkers, in staying so superficial, when we could discuss something of importance, since we seem to gravitate to this site.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85669 Aug 15, 2012
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
Amen. When I was going to school all of our school rooms had a Bible, how you could go to jail, get fired, expelled or forced to get counseling for that.
That is too vague. who is the "you" you refer to? A student still has freedom of religion, but not to be disruptive about it.
The school itself, and its employees, or any functionary of the locality or state or national government, cannot put the Bible into the school room. That would violate the Establishment clause as modified by the doctrine of incorporation (by the USSCT) to apply to state and local government entities.

But freedom of religion still exists for the students, if the religious action is in no way promoted or sanctioned by any governmental employee. Granted there is room for discretion as to what is disruptive, but the principle is intact at least.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85670 Aug 15, 2012
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>I am grateful that Americas forefathers saw the need to protect the vast majority from looney tunes like you
That was to Amen. I am still very interested in how you got to be approved for tax exempt status and to perform certain ceremonies,(unless you have been kidding us and I missed your confessioin!) I think it serves the fundies right if you have done so, given the horrid folks who have managed to get those privileges, when they should not be recognized by government - and maybe should be prosecuted instead. We have a pastor in Pella Iowa, now being prosecuted for rape of three members of his congregation. He says it was consensual.
Yet this guy had the power to marry people!
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85671 Aug 15, 2012
Spaceship earth wrote:
<quoted text>
Last I heard it's called Sunday School. Churches get a tax exemption for brain washing young minds every saturday or sunday.
Beside we do have preachers that preach hell-fire sermons to students all over the country including public schools.
Brother Micah at public school.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =ec4E2Ei_3NIXX&feature=rel ated
instead of a tax exemption, they should be prosecuted for child abuse.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85672 Aug 15, 2012
LOL in a suit wrote:
<quoted text>Why does it bother you that someone is an atheist, is there a fear in you that maybe there is a god, lukewarm will be spit out also. Your hard atheist and soft atheist is bull excrement, you are either an atheist, religie or a fence sitter(you). Skeptic is an atheist and does not put up with your nonsense, I have noticed a lot of people on the atheist forum do not care for your nonsense, deal with it.
well, the ones (like you and Skeptic) who do not like it are the ones who use the f word and the excrement words, and are inferior human beings, despite being smart enough to be atheists. There is no reason to assume that a person who is smart enough not to believe in the horrid Biblical God will be a decent person, or a kind person, or a civil person. And there is also reason to see that many decent persons are socalled christians, and nicer people than you and Skeptic and your obscene tribe.

Of course there is serious discussion about hard and soft atheism, and it is not just mine. I am just objecting to the use of the terms soft and weak, which are used in opposition to the terms hard and strong - to draw a contast between non-knowledge asserting atheists and knowledge-asserting atheists.

You obviousliy do not have a philosophical mind, nor does
skeptic. You belong more in a bar using your obscene language, rather than in a discussion among intelligent thinkers.

You are arrogant, as he is, and have nothing to be arrogant about. Anyone with any sense can see that your comments are generally shallow and trite, and mostly attacks, and slightly obscene attempts to be funny, and not the work of a thoughtful person.

I do distinguish between individuals who are atheists, on many grounds. One of them is whether they are decent or obscene. One is whether they are nasty or civil. One is whether they are philosophical or shallow. One is whether they are socalled hard (arrogant, or rigid, knowledge claiming, braggarts) or agnostic.
Some folks fail on all counts, and some only on a few, and some are wonderful. The same is true on the atheist forum.

If you think I would respect any old scum just because he happens to be an atheist, you expect too much. There is nothing more to being an atheist than not believing in a God, god, Gods, or gods. It says nothing more about the person. Nothing about his character, his behavior, his intelligence.

Furthermore there are decent believers, who are much better human beings than certain atheists, even though their beliefs seem very foolish.

You types who use the words buybull and Christard and f** and S** and similar language are the inferior type of humans, who do not show thoughtfulness or civility, who are arrogant and highhanded bullies. It is very important for a decent person who is also an atheist to repudiate the rotten people who are atheists - just as it is important for decent persons who are believers in this or that faith to repudiate the rotten people who believe in it, and the most rotten aspects of their religions.

No, you are mistaken about my views, but you are a false accuser - more like a Romney Ryan Republican - and it is hardly worth explaining anything to you. Why don't you go work for Karl Rove?
trusted

New Haven, KY

#85673 Aug 15, 2012
Well good to see , everyone is still at it.. I guess we had all better hope that we are all right in the end! I dont think any of us want to be the one who is proven wrong in the end, after all that is when it matters.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85674 Aug 15, 2012
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You may as well say god is a flying spaghetti monster.
The god most argue is myth by us atheists is the god of the bible and Koran. You know this,.... we all know this.
We argue the flawed ideas that come from such beliefs.
Well, why are you willing to be on such an elementary level when you have such an excellent mind, and could go to the furthest philosophical reaches of discussion? Don't you get bored? You are obviously way too smart just for bankandforth arguments, and too civil for the more stupid backandforth insults, to be totally wasting your time.

This is a serious question, above, and following: are you trying to de-convert some believers, because you feel sorry for them and are trying to free them from their delusions? If so, that is nice of you. Do you think any reasoning at all could work with them?
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85675 Aug 15, 2012
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>'Proof' is in the eye of the beholder. There is evidence of species change through natural selection. If the evidence is not enough to prove it to you, that is fine, but it is enough for the whole of the scientific community and thus is in science books as such.
I think no amount of evidence would suffice for you as proof.
Just as with the phrase 'scientific theory' the word 'proof' and 'evidence' seems to be beyond your comprehension.
There is zero evidence of a god, yet you feel there is proof of a god. Ironic that even though evolution has mountains of evidence, none of it is proof in your eyes.
You have double standards.
The AIDS virus is good evidence of evolution one can see in real time.
that was to defender. you seem to waver between trying to explain things to him, and saying you do not think your explanations will do any good. so I am curious about what your attitude is toward the folks you argue with. I suspect you may want to somehow "save" them from delusions, and feel frustrated that you cannot. I do not feel that you are motivated by hostility and a desire to put them down, or that you are arrogant when you say it is useless to try to convince them. It is almost as if you want to try despite being discouraged.
sayin

Murfreesboro, TN

#85676 Aug 15, 2012
good grief ... the worst thing you can do is PISS OFF a "christian" .... they will show their asses quicker than any sinner lol

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