Confederate Patriotism

Confederate Patriotism

There are 23 comments on the WTSP Tampa Bay story from Dec 5, 2007, titled Confederate Patriotism. In it, WTSP Tampa Bay reports that:

Independence Day is a time for Americans to celebrate freedombut there's another battle for freedom that still sparks fireworks today, other than the holiday.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WTSP Tampa Bay.

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GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#2 Dec 7, 2007
"If the Declaration of Independence justified the secession of 3,000,000 Colonists in 1776 why does it not justify the secession of 5,000,000 Southerners from the Union in 1861."--Horace Greeley
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#3 Dec 7, 2007
WAS SECESSION TREASON?-"You have read that some Notherners demanded that Robert E. Lee be executed for treason.And,maybe you know that the captors of Jefferson Davis subjected the aged man to torture which would have done credit to a horde of savages.Were Lee and Davis and their followers criminals because of their exercise of the right to secede? Let us go again to Abraham Lincoln.He said in 1847 on the floor of Congress:"Any people,anywhere,being inclined and having the power,have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government,and form a new one that suits them better.This is a most valuable,a most sacred right,a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world." Don't miss the point that 1847 was just thirteen years before the South began to secede.If what Lincoln taught was good doctrine in 1847,why not in 1860?And,did not "any people,anywhere" take in the people of the South? Little wonder that an English historian,Goldwyn Smith,commented that Southern secession could not have asked a clearer support than this statement by Lincoln.--From"FACTS THE HISTORIANS LEAVE OUT" by John S. Tilley,M.A.(HARVARD)Pages 32-33.Author of "Lincoln Takes Command" and "The Coming of the Glory"
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#4 Dec 7, 2007
"Going further back: referring to the right to safety and happiness,the Declaration of Independence said:"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends,it is the right of the people to abolish it,and to institute a new government."--From "FACTS THE HISTORIANS LEAVE OUT"by John S. Tilley,M.A.(HARVARD Page 33.
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#5 Dec 7, 2007
"And,a glance at some New England history may prove of interest.In 1803,New England leaders grew white with rage over the idea of admitting Louisana into the Union.Senator Plumer of New Hampshire said:"The Eastern States must and will dissolve the Union and form a separate government of their own;and the sooner they do this,the better.Senator Pickering of Massachusetts wrote:"I rather anticipate a new Confederacy exempt from the corrupt influence of the aristocratic Democrats of the South...There will be a seperation...The British provinces (of Canada),even with the consent of Great Britain,will become members of the Northern Confederacy." There you have it! A NORTHERN CONFEDERACY.You haven't read much about THAT in your histories,have you? Their plan did not succeed but they tried to carry it out."--From "FACTS THE HISTORIANS LEAVE OUT" by John S. Tilley,M.A.(HARVARD) Pages33-34.
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#6 Dec 7, 2007
"Then,in 1814,New England held its famous"Hartford Convention" which plainly considered secession from the Union. Not only in 1814.Again in 1845,John Quincy Adams and fellow New Englanders so opposed the admission of Texas that they openly urged withdrawal from the Union. 1845 was just fifteen years before Southern secession.Keep in mind that Virginia(and New York)carefully reserved the right to leave the Union;all Southern States believed in such a right. About the time of the graduation of Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis,West Point was using a text-book which left no doubt of the right of a State to withdraw. So! When at last the South acted,it followed an example suggested by New England,first in 1803,again in 1814,and still again in 1845."--From "FACTS THE HISTORIANS LEAVE OUT"--by John S. Tilley,M.A.(HARVARD) Pages 34-35.
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#7 Dec 8, 2007
"The sword is mighty,but principles laugh at swords,Overwhelming force may crush truth to earth but,crushed or not the truth is still the truth."--From "The Coming of the Glory" by John S.Tilley,M.A.(HARVARD).
Robin

United States

#8 Dec 10, 2007
I wouldn't be surprised if the idea of secession reappeares again if our own federal government continues to vastly exceed it's constitutional limits as it has for the last 50 years.
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#9 Dec 11, 2007
Robin wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the idea of secession reappeares again if our own federal government continues to vastly exceed it's constitutional limits as it has for the last 50 years.
I agree with you Robin 100%!
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#10 Dec 11, 2007
JEFFERSON DAVIS CAPTURED AND INDICTED FOR TREASON!!------"Another detail may grip your interest.His captors indicted their prisoner for treason.He was helpless,his friends powerless to aid,the entire North blazing with anger.His foes had the prisoner,the indictment,the courts,the juries.They needed no evidence.A jury trial would have been another version of the lamb on trial before a pack of wolves.Then,what happened?They planned,and prepared for,the trial--but IT NEVER CAME! WHY? It began to dawn on his persecutors that a pretty picture would result if there should issue from the Nation's Highest Court the judgement that no treason was involved,that there was nothing criminal in his and his South's doing what West Point had taught him in Rawle's View of the Constitution,a text which declared that ANY STATE HAD THE RIGHT TO SECEDE,if it saw fit to do so."--From "FACTS THE HISTORIANS LEAVE OUT" by John S. Tilley,M.A.(HARVARD).Pages 75-76.
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#11 Dec 11, 2007
"We protest solemnly in the face of mankind,that we desire peace at any sacrifice,save that of honor.In independence we seek no conquest,no aggrandizement,no concession of any kind from the States with which we have been confederated.All we ask is to be let alone--that those who never held power over us shall not now attempt our subjugation by arms.This we will,we must,resist to the direst extremity.The moment that this pretension is abandoned,the sword will drop from our grasp,and we shall be ready to enter into treaties of amnesty and commerce that cannot but be mutually beneficial.So long as this pretension is maintained,with a firm reliance on that Divine Power which covers with its protection the just cause,we must continue to struggle for our inherent right to freedom,independence,and self government."--Jefferson Davis' first address to the Confederate Congress.
Maya

United States

#12 Dec 11, 2007
How about citing some other references to support John S. Tilley’s recount of American history. Just because he wrote it doesn't necessarily make it so.

I am a Southerner and descendent of a Confederate General. The South lost, so get over it. Where are you going to succeed? And what are you going to do with your new country? What’s the point? The South will never succeed. What kind of industry will sustain it economically, how will it replace federal dollars that it receives, who’s going to defend it from foreign invasion, drug runners, and terrorists? Confederate flag wavers aren't proud -they're pissed.

People who still whine about losing the Civil War should take some of that wasted energy and work on something relevant – like fighting foreign and domestic terrorism, feeding the hungry, finding solutions for the homeless, lowering taxes, balancing the national budget, improving education, and teaching Christian values to your children (like love thy neighbor, honor your parents and do unto others as you would have others do unto you).

If you want to see change, how about voting, or better yet, running for office.
Weareocala

Gainesville, FL

#13 Dec 12, 2007
I'm also a southerner, my familie's been in Florida since the early 1800's. I can see GJ's point. History always seems to be written by the victors, it's important to try to get to the truth. Maya, you're right, we need to come together as Americans and solve the very real problems facing us now and in the immediate future, and start planning for our kids and grandkids and beyond. I think that sothern pride feelings and other hot topic issues being shown is similar to the immigration debate. In times of stress people tend to look for alternative topics to direct their frustrations towards. Let's work together to keep America great!
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#14 Dec 12, 2007
Weareocala wrote:
I'm also a southerner, my familie's been in Florida since the early 1800's. I can see GJ's point. History always seems to be written by the victors, it's important to try to get to the truth. Maya, you're right, we need to come together as Americans and solve the very real problems facing us now and in the immediate future, and start planning for our kids and grandkids and beyond. I think that sothern pride feelings and other hot topic issues being shown is similar to the immigration debate. In times of stress people tend to look for alternative topics to direct their frustrations towards. Let's work together to keep America great!
You and Maya above are correct,in the sense that we as Americans have important issues before us.Unfortunately,the first thing that people with a Totalitatian Agenda do,is to erase the past thereby controlling the present.If you don't believe me,spend the next twenty years of your life studying it like I have the past twenty years!---P.S.I DO NOT LIVE IN THE PAST,I AM VERY MUCH AWARE THAT I AM LIVING IN THE TWENTYFIRST CENTURY.AND I DO APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT.
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#15 Dec 12, 2007
GJ Tisdale wrote:
<quoted text> You and Maya above are correct,in the sense that we as Americans have important issues before us.Unfortunately,the first thing that people with a Totalitatian Agenda do,is to erase the past thereby controlling the present.If you don't believe me,spend the next twenty years of your life studying it like I have the past twenty years!---P.S.I DO NOT LIVE IN THE PAST,I AM VERY MUCH AWARE THAT I AM LIVING IN THE TWENTYFIRST CENTURY.AND I DO APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT.
The above word was misspelled,should read "Totalitarian". Thank You!
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#16 Dec 12, 2007
GJ Tisdale wrote:
<quoted text> You and Maya above are correct,in the sense that we as Americans have important issues before us.Unfortunately,the first thing that people with a Totalitatian Agenda do,is to erase the past thereby controlling the present.If you don't believe me,spend the next twenty years of your life studying it like I have the past twenty years!---P.S.I DO NOT LIVE IN THE PAST,I AM VERY MUCH AWARE THAT I AM LIVING IN THE TWENTYFIRST CENTURY.AND I DO APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT.
The word above was misspelled,should read "Totalitarian". Thank You!
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#17 Dec 12, 2007
Weareocala wrote:
I'm also a southerner, my familie's been in Florida since the early 1800's. I can see GJ's point. History always seems to be written by the victors, it's important to try to get to the truth. Maya, you're right, we need to come together as Americans and solve the very real problems facing us now and in the immediate future, and start planning for our kids and grandkids and beyond. I think that sothern pride feelings and other hot topic issues being shown is similar to the immigration debate. In times of stress people tend to look for alternative topics to direct their frustrations towards. Let's work together to keep America great!
The above word was misspelled,shoud read "Totalitarian".Thank you!
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#18 Dec 30, 2007
"It is true that Sherman's force contained many good Midwestern Americans who were doing what they believed was right.It also had larger contingents of mercenaries,criminals,and foreigners than any American army before or since.Why would such good Americans want to destroy the statue of Washington at the South Carolina capital and burn up William Gilmore Simms's library with its hundreds of Washington,Nathaniel Greene,Francis Marion,and other Revolutionary heroes?"--from "Defending Dixie":Essays in Southern History and Culture by Clyde N. Wilson.Page 80. Published by The Foundation for American Education. READ THE BOOK!!!--http://www.faebooks.o rg/store
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#19 Dec 30, 2007
P.S. I mistakenly left out three words of the last sentence on post #18.It should read "Why would such good Americans want to destroy the statue of Washington at the South Carolina capital and burn up William Gilmore Simms's library with its hundreds of irreplaceable manuscripts of Washington,Nathaniel Greene,Francis Marion,and other Revolutionary heroes?
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#20 Dec 30, 2007
"Or destroy churches and schools and convents? Put pistols to the heads of women and black servants to frighten them into disclosing the whereabouts of the valuables? Open fresh graves(of which there were a great many in the South) as possible hiding places for silver and jewelry.Or,like the foreign-born,syphilitic Union general Kilpatrick,force women to dance to gay tunes with his men while their homes and their town were being forever wiped off the map by fire.Or,tear up little girls' dolls and nail the family pet to a door? One Georgia lady was visited by several wives of Union officers who choosily selected and divided up her possessions.When she protested she was called a spy and sent without ceremony to a brutal prison in Tennessee."--from "Defending Dixie":Essays in Southern History and Culture by Clyde N. Wilson Page 80. READ THE BOOK!!!--http://www.faebooks.o rg/store
GJ Tisdale

Inverness, FL

#21 Dec 31, 2007
"A report in my local press recently told the story of a World War II incident,typical of many,because it is my impression that the battle flag was carried proudly in that war,in Korea,and even in Vietnam.The Fifth Marine Division,after desperate fighting,took Shuri Castle,the last point of resistance on Okinawa.The only flag available to the first men in was a Confederate battle flag carried in the helmet of Captain Julius Dusenberry,a South Carolinian,which was unfurled and hauled up.As far as I am aware,no one on the front lines objected to the display of that honorable American symbol.Certainly not the local commander,General Simon Bolivar Buckner,Jr.,son of a Confederate general,and who was later killed in action."--from "Defending Dixie":Essays in Southern History and Culture by Clyde N. Wilson.Pages101-102.READ THE BOOK!!!--http://www.faebooks.o rg/store

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