B&B - Hawaii Editorials

B&B - Hawaii Editorials

There are 22 comments on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin story from Jul 23, 2009, titled B&B - Hawaii Editorials. In it, Honolulu Star-Bulletin reports that:

Legal or not, the vacation rental and bed-and-breakfast issue needs to be addressed.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

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Flexo

Kula, HI

#1 Jul 23, 2009
Mr. Fanger, you failed to address the issue that of the 5500 businesses you located, that represents 5500 homes that have been taken out of the local housing inventory. And please don't tell me that our homeless can't afford to rent them anyway so it doesn't matter. The result of 5500 homes out of the housing market means there is more downwards pressure on the remaining houses with those at the bottom eventually being pushed out altogether.
And that $160 million you mention. How much of it really stays here. Many of the vacation rentals are owned by investors on the mainland who ship the money home.
By the way, your denials of free weddings at your property ring hollow in light of the revelations made in the news article about your business.
I do wish DPP had time to go after all 5500 operators but even if it's one at a time, I'm glad they started with you.
low standards

Kahului, HI

#2 Jul 23, 2009
Be straight - supporters stay under the radar to pay their bills WITH AN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY THAT THEIR NEIGHBORS OBJECT TO.
StateTaxPayer

AOL

#3 Jul 23, 2009
Investors pay the excise tax and income tax on gross receipts AND net income, plus real estate taxes. If they don't, the state of Hawaii puts them in jail. Just report them, or stop talking about it. Do your civil duty or shut up already.
alienated

Wahiawa, HI

#4 Jul 23, 2009
StateTaxPayer wrote:
Investors pay the excise tax and income tax on gross receipts AND net income, plus real estate taxes. If they don't, the state of Hawaii puts them in jail. Just report them, or stop talking about it. Do your civil duty or shut up already.
If there wee any truth to the above Fanger would be in jail. Is he?
kawela

Mission, TX

#5 Jul 23, 2009
You and the other homeowners are not a legal business. That's like saying that they pot grown in Hawaii would bring in lots of tax money, except it's not legal. If you can't afford a "residence", that's a shame. You want renters, buy a hotel.
VacationHomeRent er

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#6 Jul 23, 2009
I am glad Mr. Fanger wrote this article. I've looked into numerous TVUs on Oahu for family visiting from the mainland, who would much rather stay in a more private area than the commercial setting of Waikiki. Some homes, such as Fanger set standards at which their guests should abide. For example- gatherings outside must commence by 9pm, and I was informed that the grounds act as a parking facility- leaving no overage onto the streets. These are great measures to ensure the neighbors' privacy.

I understand that we worry about our everyday life being interrupted by nuisances, but why spoil because of a few rotten eggs. In my opinion, if these houses don't get rented out by vacationers, they'll be rented to large parties (ie- noisy, rowdy college students and military personnel) because no single family can afford them. OR the houses will be forced into foreclosure. Neither of these situations are any good for anyone.

So instead of making TVUs illegal, why don't we enforce stricter rules on those renting?
Karen

Kihei, HI

#7 Jul 23, 2009
You say there are 5500 B&Bs. I cannot believe these figures. Many B&Bs advertise on several sites. The B&B business is tough. It’s hard work, there’s a lot of competition with hotels offering steep discounts, flight and ground trans packages…

According to the Census Bureau, there were 22,164 businesses in Honolulu County in 2006
Here are just a few.
2233 Food services & drinking places
1166 Finance and insurance companies
1175 Admin&supp&waste mgmt&remed svcs
1284 Relig/grantmakng/civic/prof org
1943 Ambulatory - health care svcs
3105 in the Retail trade
41 Men’s clothing stores
156 Women’s clothing stores

But you say there are 5,500 B&Bs. That’s nearly a quarter of all the businesses in Honolulu Cty. That means there aren’t many realtors, dentists, construction companies, pet care places, bento places, automotive sales-repair…

5,500 B&B homes is 1.1 percent of the 500,000 homes available in Honolulu County. I believe 46 percent of the 500,000 are rentals of more than 30 days. Do you think we want to look at at a solution to home the homeless, with rent control of long-term rentals and see how much it affects our taxes?
Duh

Honolulu, HI

#8 Jul 23, 2009
Genshiro Kawamoto owns probably a hundred homes on Hawaii and he rents these homes out. Is this considered 100 businesses or just one businessman who owns and rents 100 homes.

What Fanger is doing appears to be completely legal. 30+ day rentals is permissible and does not fall under TVU or B&B's.

all you need to do is rent your home out for 30K a month. If they want to stay for 7 days, you prorate it - charge them 7K plus cleaning fee's and then leave the house vacant and then rent it out again.

B&B regulations are way to easy to get around. This is why it is a complete waste of time arguing the issue.

Give everyone a 30 day contract, pro-rate it (unless they wanna stay for the whole 30 days, which is what Genshiro Kawamoto's clients do), then re-rent for another 30 day contract. Not the owners fault people want out prior to 30 days.
Tutu

Kula, HI

#9 Jul 23, 2009
VacationHomeRenter wrote:
I am glad Mr. Fanger wrote this article. I've looked into numerous TVUs on Oahu for family visiting from the mainland, who would much rather stay in a more private area than the commercial setting of Waikiki. Some homes, such as Fanger set standards at which their guests should abide. For example- gatherings outside must commence by 9pm, and I was informed that the grounds act as a parking facility- leaving no overage onto the streets. These are great measures to ensure the neighbors' privacy.
I understand that we worry about our everyday life being interrupted by nuisances, but why spoil because of a few rotten eggs. In my opinion, if these houses don't get rented out by vacationers, they'll be rented to large parties (ie- noisy, rowdy college students and military personnel) because no single family can afford them. OR the houses will be forced into foreclosure. Neither of these situations are any good for anyone.
So instead of making TVUs illegal, why don't we enforce stricter rules on those renting?
I think you are very confused about the issue. The problem is not house rules - its about land use and zoning. Commercial businesses - which vacation rentals and B&Bs are - do not belong in residential neighborhoods and will always create conflict. Residential zoning was established so that residents would have a place to live without commercial enterprises next door to them. If these businesses are allowed then all residential zones will need to be re-zoned to either mixed use or resort. Believe me, I don't think the residents of Oahu want that.
Tutu

Kula, HI

#10 Jul 23, 2009
Let me clear up one more thing, there are already strict laws for vacation rentals. They are illegal in residential zones and legal in resort areas. If you want to be legal, you will need to relocate.
DPP

Honolulu, HI

#11 Jul 23, 2009
Duh wrote:
Genshiro Kawamoto owns probably a hundred homes on Hawaii and he rents these homes out. Is this considered 100 businesses or just one businessman who owns and rents 100 homes.
What Fanger is doing appears to be completely legal. 30+ day rentals is permissible and does not fall under TVU or B&B's.
all you need to do is rent your home out for 30K a month. If they want to stay for 7 days, you prorate it - charge them 7K plus cleaning fee's and then leave the house vacant and then rent it out again.
B&B regulations are way to easy to get around. This is why it is a complete waste of time arguing the issue.
Give everyone a 30 day contract, pro-rate it (unless they wanna stay for the whole 30 days, which is what Genshiro Kawamoto's clients do), then re-rent for another 30 day contract. Not the owners fault people want out prior to 30 days.
According to the Land Use Ordinances, Mr. Fanger is breaking the law if his customers demonstrate a trend of not occupying the property for 30 days. Your so-called loop-hole does not stand-up in court. The regulatory intent of the TVU and B&B ordinances is to stop the proliferation and consequential negative impacts of visitor accommodation businesses in residentially zoned neighborhoods and their surrounding communities.
VacationHomeRent er

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#12 Jul 23, 2009
I do understand this. However, there is clearly a reason why this ban has come about. And the reason I addressed these topics is because these are the reasons I've heard from residents as to why they are opposed to B&B's and TVU's. I think the council needs to look into alternative options because I think it would be a shame to see these houses rot.

I know I'm no lawyer or politician, but I've gotten interested in this topic. I found a town in California that initiated a municipal code that allows short-term rentals in residential zoning areas as long as the establishment applies for an annual permit.(See: http://www.codepublishing.com/ca/SolanaBeach/... )

Why couldn't they do something like this here, and avoid rezoning? Is it too much to actually identify and enforce penalties those not abiding by the code? Is that an issue?
Tutu wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are very confused about the issue. The problem is not house rules - its about land use and zoning. Commercial businesses - which vacation rentals and B&Bs are - do not belong in residential neighborhoods and will always create conflict. Residential zoning was established so that residents would have a place to live without commercial enterprises next door to them. If these businesses are allowed then all residential zones will need to be re-zoned to either mixed use or resort. Believe me, I don't think the residents of Oahu want that.
junks

AOL

#13 Jul 23, 2009
DPP wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the Land Use Ordinances, Mr. Fanger is breaking the law if his customers demonstrate a trend of not occupying the property for 30 days. Your so-called loop-hole does not stand-up in court. The regulatory intent of the TVU and B&B ordinances is to stop the proliferation and consequential negative impacts of visitor accommodation businesses in residentially zoned neighborhoods and their surrounding communities.
In COURT you say? What Hawaii court? Which case?

Please, do cite that specific court case as a definitive point reference.
Tutu

Kula, HI

#14 Jul 23, 2009
VacationHomeRenter wrote:
I do understand this. However, there is clearly a reason why this ban has come about. And the reason I addressed these topics is because these are the reasons I've heard from residents as to why they are opposed to B&B's and TVU's. I think the council needs to look into alternative options because I think it would be a shame to see these houses rot.
I know I'm no lawyer or politician, but I've gotten interested in this topic. I found a town in California that initiated a municipal code that allows short-term rentals in residential zoning areas as long as the establishment applies for an annual permit.(See: http://www.codepublishing.com/ca/SolanaBeach/... )
Why couldn't they do something like this here, and avoid rezoning? Is it too much to actually identify and enforce penalties those not abiding by the code? Is that an issue?
<quoted text>
It is interesting that the only alternative you propose to short term rentals is allowing these houses to "rot". Many investors have purchased properties on the gamble that they can run an illegal vacation rental. They over bid on properties (thus pushing out local residents) because they are banking on the illegal vacation rental business to pay the over-inflated mortgage - normal working people can not compete with that. If investors need the income from their property then they can legally rent the property long term. If this is not of value to them then they can put it back on the market at a fair market rate.

There are many more reasons that resort businesses in residential neighborhoods are a bad idea (example above). We have a finite amount of land on this Island and residents who work and live here must be made a priority to keep our economy alive.
Downtown

Honolulu, HI

#15 Jul 23, 2009
junks wrote:
<quoted text>
In COURT you say? What Hawaii court? Which case?
Please, do cite that specific court case as a definitive point reference.
I agree with DPP. Creating fraudulent 30 day contracts does not allow you be operating an illegal vacation rental. That clearly goes against the regulatory intent of the LUO.
VacationHomeRent er

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#16 Jul 23, 2009
I never proposed these houses rotting as an alternative. I'm saying that there are going to be adverse effects if these TVUs get shut down... especially in today economy. And I guarantee that some of these TVUs are owned by Oahu's residents who depend on their business.

My alternative was to come to a happy medium- not to pick one side or another. Has Honolulu ever tried making TVU owners pay an annual permit fee and enforced them to abide by a set of rules? Or did they just give up and ban them all together? I never even knew that TVUs were illegal until a few days ago, and it just seemed silly to me.

Why can't Honolulu see how it's worked for other tourist communities and see what happens?
Tutu wrote:
<quoted text>
It is interesting that the only alternative you propose to short term rentals is allowing these houses to "rot". Many investors have purchased properties on the gamble that they can run an illegal vacation rental. They over bid on properties (thus pushing out local residents) because they are banking on the illegal vacation rental business to pay the over-inflated mortgage - normal working people can not compete with that. If investors need the income from their property then they can legally rent the property long term. If this is not of value to them then they can put it back on the market at a fair market rate.
There are many more reasons that resort businesses in residential neighborhoods are a bad idea (example above). We have a finite amount of land on this Island and residents who work and live here must be made a priority to keep our economy alive.
Hello

Honolulu, HI

#17 Jul 23, 2009
VacationHomeRenter wrote:
I never proposed these houses rotting as an alternative. I'm saying that there are going to be adverse effects if these TVUs get shut down... especially in today economy. And I guarantee that some of these TVUs are owned by Oahu's residents who depend on their business.
My alternative was to come to a happy medium- not to pick one side or another. Has Honolulu ever tried making TVU owners pay an annual permit fee and enforced them to abide by a set of rules? Or did they just give up and ban them all together? I never even knew that TVUs were illegal until a few days ago, and it just seemed silly to me.
Why can't Honolulu see how it's worked for other tourist communities and see what happens?
<quoted text>
Vacation rentals are not banned on Oahu. In fact, you can open as many as you want. They just need to be located in the proper zoning. The real issue here is should Honolulu allow resort businesses be located in residential zoning. The impacts of such go beyond just noise and parking issues. These businesses change the land-use and impact the housing inventory and character of a neighborhood and its surrounding community. If property owners want to use their property for resort land-use, they should be required to rezone the property as resort.
B Real

Honolulu, HI

#18 Jul 23, 2009
Aloha Tutu!
You pretty akamai yeah!? I agree with everything you say. I'm glad you have posted and said the things I would have said.

When can I come over for stew and poi?
Onikai

Honolulu, HI

#19 Jul 23, 2009
Tell these belly aching B & B owners to pay for private garbage pick up (instead of subsidized C &C pick up), hotel rate property taxes (instead of homeowner rates), pay an excise tax since they are making $$ using their homes as a business, business rate for utilities (instead of a homeowner rate); These people are raking in a lot of bucks, yet they are not paying their fair share for the infrastructure improvements. We single family homeowners should not continue to subsidize these greedy freeloading B &Bs. If they opt to use their property as a business then they should be prepared to pay a business rate for utilities, garbage collection, etc. Then, perhaps, a more meaningful discussion can occur. But to use your home as a business and pay the same property tax and be entitled to City garbage pick up is just not right or fair.
anonymous

Honolulu, HI

#20 Jul 23, 2009
I have rented the FangerEstates for 2 nights and it was a nightmare. I am seeking a full refund from Mr.Fanger for false advertising. Most of the amenities listed on his website is nowhere to be found on the property. The air conditioner doesn't work, the oven is broken, master bath spa is dangerous and not completed, only one small 16" tv in family room, no outside connecting bar, hot water only supplied to half of home for bathing, only, lights trip constantly, falling coconut branches and the list goes on and on.

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